Can I use Aversion with carried objects?

Rules Questions

4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Occult Adventures spell aversion allows you to force a creature to remain 60' apart from an object or place if it fails a Will save, or become nauseated if it is forced to come closer.

Is there anything that prevents me to force the creature apart from an object I carry like my armor or bow?

The duration seems a bit too large, 1 day/level, in comparison with other spells that grant the nauseated condition at that level (cacophonous call, instrument of agony), and pushing someone to be in the area of an object I carry appears as a quite easy action.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sickened if you make the save and stay withing 60' of the object.

Another one of those spells where the general idea is fun, but the implementation is horrible and can be abused badly.

Why limit yourself to making him avoid your stuff? Make it avoid his armor.
It is a "enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]" targeting the creature, you don't target the item. So RAW you can make him avoid whatever you choose.

FAQed for a errata.

BTW the author seen not to realize that a bridge or the Taj Mahal are objects, not only locations. As he hasn't spelled out any limitations to the object size it is relatively easy to bypass the location size limit.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

cast it on the planet :O

Exactly, making him scared of his own armor will instantly make him sickened even if he passes the safe, for... 1 day/level. And if the creature is a monster without equipment, you can always make him scared of your own gear.

I feel the author was thinking on 'location' types of objects, like structures, sculptures, etc... But by using the word 'object' it makes an already powerful spell to be overpowered for its level.

Perhaps, limiting the spell to target locations and structure objects was the real intention. Otherwise I would limit this to 1 minute casting or something like that, as I think the spell was not thought for combat use but rather for guarding a place against a creature.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Beguiling gift, metal shields and druids; the original version of Antagonize; a so on for a long list of examples.
Too often the creators fo new content think "this is a cool thing that reflect this of that effect I have read in a novel/seen in a film" without realizing how it can be abused in a game. And sometime the developers revising what is submitted miss the possible abuse and senf the material to the print without modifying it.

Sovereign Court

Has this been resolved? Even when used more 'as intended' this spell seems horribly broken. In an encounter, you can just make the 'location' the 50' by 50' cube you are battling in or some identifying feature of that specific area.

You're not going to get a resolution to something with 4 FAQ clicks. If you get 50 and the devs are feeling generous you might see something 6 months later.

That said, it's not that bad, if you "abuse" it this way it becomes nauseated on a failed save, sickened on a successful save until they can rid themselves of the object. Compare to Babble which is nauseated plus a fascination rider on a failed save, nothing on a successful save. Same level for everyone but the Psychic, who gets Aversion a level early. There's also Mydriatic Spontaneity. It's a level higher, generally, because it's not mind-affecting and applies to more types of target. On a failed save you're nauseated and either blind or dazzled, a successful save negates.

The issues with Aversion therefore are:

1. Early access to single target Nauseate for Psychic. Psychics get early access on other mind-affecting low level spells like Suggestion, I can live with this. Unlike other nauseating spells, it doesn't do anything extra on top of that.
2. Available to more classes than Babble. (Druids and Occultists). Not a big deal.
3. Sickened on a successful save. Ok, this is pretty overpowered at this level. Usually the best you'll get is a 1 round sickened/shaken Will partial on a spell at level 3-4, and this is particularly egregious for Psychics who get it at level 2.
4. Additional utility that the comparable spells don't provide, in that you can use it imprison someone (aversion to the door of the room they're in) or force a melee combatant to stay away from you. The latter is probably one of the big intended effects, but you also could have used Hold Person (if a Psychic) or Hideous Laughter for the same purpose. Or use Miserable Pity and keep multiple attackers using multiple means of attack away.
5. Duration. In some circumstances having 4 days of duration (or until they ditch the item) vs. 5+ round of duration will matter, but not many. If you're nauseated for 5 rounds you're generally dead.

So I'd say it's problematic but not the end of the world. The abuse works if you're fighting a creature that has a weapon or armor, but not against plenty of other enemies. I'd house rule it that you can't cast it to create an aversion to an item the creature owns and is familiar with, problem solved. You're then left with a utility/plot spell that also has combat utility in keeping a single melee creature away from you.

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