Total Defense out of combat?


Rules Questions

101 to 119 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Talonhawke wrote:
Can you define combat actions? When is an action considered combat or not combat. If I am breaking down a door is that combat or non-combat. Since casting a spell is under same heading of "Standard Actions" is it a combat action? Or are only certain spells?

??? I just did.

depends on the action. is it damaging or something that makes sense only in combat or not?
depends, are you doing it to start a fight with the people inside or to break into an abandoned house to explore it?
depends on the spell. If it's a spell for combat like damage or some disabling effect, or if it's a non-combat only spell, like cure or creating a bridge or making a pit to divert some flood water.

If the intent of the action is combat/negative/damage it's a combat action, if the action makes sense in combat but not out of combat it's a combat action. If the action is harmless it's probably not a combat action. If the action makes sense for an ordinary average person to be doing out of combat then it's not a combat action.


So even though casting a spell is in the same section of the combat chapter of the rules under the same heading of Standard action it's not a combat action? So be fully on your toes and ready for an ambush isn't something an adventurer would do while investigating a dark crypt full of traps and the unliving? I can attack a table (sunder) without combat going on even though it involves attack and damage.

Scarab Sages

Talonhawke wrote:
Can you define combat actions? When is an action considered combat or not combat. If I am breaking down a door is that combat or non-combat. Since casting a spell is under same heading of "Standard Actions" is it a combat action? Or are only certain spells?

Hustling or Running would be equivelents to the level of activity required for "in combat" behaviour. Walking is basically 1 (move) action per turn, and you can do that all day. So if you want to cast standard action spells all day, but don't plan on moving, I'd let you. If you want to move while casting standard action spells or breaking down doors, I'd call that hustling, so you'd be able to do it for about an hour straight (or so) and then you'd need a break. If you ignored the break and powered through, I'd start applying fatigue and nonlethal damage (both of which can be removed with very minimal magical healing). If you wanted full round actions all day, I'd call that equal to running, and resolve accordingly.

And again, this is a matter of using actions continously and excessively. Using total defense while moving for a few minutes, then reverting to normal walking, isn't going to be an issue. Likewise, walking, and then stopping to cast spells, is still basically walking from a fatigue stance. You'd have to be excessive with these things for it to even come up. Like if the PC wants to be in total defense all day while moving (like 16 hours 2 actions per turn).

And as mentioned, Total defense, in my book, only applies to enemies the player is aware of or has role-played/describe being prepared for (and could reasonably prepare for) or could otherwise reasonably expect. Freak occurances and unexpected enemies are going to bypass this one.


Where is walking defined at only using half your actions per round? And what does that have to do with anything? With your logic someone could not move and use a wand without hustling after a while or keep up concentration on a spell hell even walking while searching for an ambush using perception would be eating up 2 actions and thus cause hustling.


Murdock is actually right about Hustling

Quote:
A character moving his speed twice in a single round, or moving that speed in the same round that he or she performs a standard action or another move action, is hustling when he or she moves.

That said, hustling only has any negative effects for the purpose of overland movement.


Guess I need to start applying hustling rules for those long trips between town and the dungeon.


Talonhawke wrote:
Hubaris wrote:
Quintain wrote:
I can just see the revolt from the players when they just dispatch their last enemy but have someone in negative hit points and a low constitution and the players not being able to stabilize them because they aren't in combat.

*Shakes head*

Silly Martial, we can still Stabilize with Magic!
9. Cast a spell (1 standard action casting time)

Contingency isn't an action!

Tongue planted firmly in cheek


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Derklord wrote:
There are rules for for doing movement all day long, but no rules for doing Total Defense all day long.
Sure there are. Take a standard action every six seconds.

Really? Really? Really??? You are not able to deduct the meaning from what I wrote? You are not able to get that I was talking about rules that specifically deal with doing a certain action all day long?

Talonhawke wrote:
With your logic someone could not move and use a wand without hustling after a while (...)

Hustling only has any ill effect after an hour. That's 600 casts or 12 full wands you are using non stop.

Are you trying to be unreasonable? Because it sure looks that way. You are completely ignoring my post #82 where I already talked about other actions in that rules segment, after all.


Without going to unreasonable we have now determined that yes walking and preforming another action is a hustle. Since Actively using perception is a move action it is hustling if more than an hour passes with anyone moving their speed and watching for an ambush.


Frankly, the only difference between combat and non-combat actions are the granularity of the attention the players (including the GM) pay to the timing of the actions.

Otherwise, there is no difference.

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Derklord wrote:
Really? Really? Really???

Since you are overly invested in your argument, I will leave you alone with it.

Scarab Sages

Talonhawke wrote:
Without going to unreasonable we have now determined that yes walking and preforming another action is a hustle. Since Actively using perception is a move action it is hustling if more than an hour passes with anyone moving their speed and watching for an ambush.

No, that's walking to just use a move action each round. Hustling would be doing that while doing a Standard action each turn.


Walking while using perception however is the use of 2 move actions a round thus hustling.

Scarab Sages

Talonhawke wrote:
Walking while using perception however is the use of 2 move actions a round thus hustling.

Yeah, and if you were doing it for over an hour, I'd consider adding the non-lethal damage and fatigue.

I will note that some classes can actually get DR specifically against non-lethal damage, and as noted in the rules hustling, if you remove the non-lethal, the fatigue goes away too. So between healing and classes with this kind of DR, it should be pretty easy to avoid this penalty. Seems like it would only really be an issue for low level PCs.

More or less, the rules for hustling and running overland are mostly directed at low-fantasy settings, where magical healing is uncommon.


Very rarely see Total Defence used in games... strange


Derklord wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
You have yet to prove intent. That is the point I was also trying to make. So far you have your belief, and I am all about RAI, but you should have something to support that belief.
There are rules for for doing movement all day long, but no rules for doing Total Defense all day long. For me, that makes it pretty what's intended and what's not. That's the best I can do. if that's not enough for you, re-read the last sentence of my post that you quoted.

I bolded the relevant part of your comment. Yes for you, it is ok. That does not make it the illegal to use certain actions when not in combat.


doc roc wrote:
Very rarely see Total Defence used in games... strange

Total defense, as I have experienced it, is a panic button when you know you can't win, but you are still toe-to-toe with the latest BBEG.

Or as a way to get the GM to stop attacking you and focus on another because you are no longer a threat.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
doc roc wrote:
Very rarely see Total Defence used in games... strange

Your players probably haven't come up with the cheese of getting a semi-permanent AC bonus just by moving slowly...yet.


doc roc wrote:
Very rarely see Total Defence used in games... strange

It's useful for approaching distant enemies firing arrows at you, and handy for large but dumb monsters. Not to mention it's handy for blocking 5 foot corridors while your partners range something to death.

101 to 119 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Total Defense out of combat? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.