Snapdragon Fireworks and Widen Metamagic?


Rules Questions


Hey all,

Just a funky combo I'm thinking of.
Would Widen Metamagic apply to the Snapdragon Firewirks spell, doubling the area from a 5ft square to a 10ft square?


seems like it would work. its effect doesn't say 5foot square but the description does so i'd say yes.


I think raw, no. The text from the spell states

Snapdragon Fireworks wrote:
Once per round, as a move action, you may designate a target 5-foot-square within range and launch a pyrotechnic in that direction. The pyrotechnic takes a zigzag path from you to that square, always missing creatures and objects in its path, and detonates in that square with a bang and a colorful burst of fire and light.
and Widen Spell states
Widen Spell wrote:
You can alter a burst, emanation, or spread-shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell's area increase by 100%.

Since the spell does not specify being a burst, emanation or spread, it would not benefit from Widen Spell.


It's does say a burst of fire and light..

I've got a concept for a Metamagic and cantrip focused sorcerer, he'd have a few 1st lvl spells, but mostly he'd use Metamagic on them and cantrips. It looks like this is a pretty awesome spell for that, since it's got;
Light descriptor
Fire descriptor
Area effect, even if only 5ft
Auto hits
Has a massive range
Can last a whole fight.

I'm trying to find cool, or unique combinations. Like using Eclipsed Spell to make to a dark firework, etc


Blindmage wrote:

It's does say a burst of fire and light..

I've got a concept for a Metamagic and cantrip focused sorcerer, he'd have a few 1st lvl spells, but mostly he'd use Metamagic on them and cantrips. It looks like this is a pretty awesome spell for that, since it's got;
Light descriptor
Fire descriptor
Area effect, even if only 5ft
Auto hits
Has a massive range
Can last a whole fight.

I'm trying to find cool, or unique combinations. Like using Eclipsed Spell to make to a dark firework, etc

You're equivocating burst as a generic term in the description of the spell with burst, the system term referring to a specific type of AoE effect. It's a common mistake, similar to conflating humanoid, the general term referring to anything human-shaped (eg. a body, one head, 2 legs, and 2 arms) and humanoid a system term for a creature type. A Golem might be humanoid in shape, but is not of the Humanoid type. Likewise, a spell may be described as a burst of fire and light, but that doesn't make it a Burst AoE effect.


I think the reason it's not given a type is that it's only a 5ft square, one square, so there's no need, outside of this one way to expand the effect. I'd say burst makes the most sense.


who cares, no dm is gonna tell him no because its too Op. its a g&# d#+n snapdragon.


Blindmage wrote:
I think the reason it's not given a type is that it's only a 5ft square, one square, so there's no need, outside of this one way to expand the effect. I'd say burst makes the most sense.

No, there are other spells with areas greater than 5' that don't list Burst, Emanation, or Spread. Flame Strike, for instance, creates a 10' radius, 40' height column of holy fire, but doesn't list it as a Burst, Emanation, or Spread. Those are specific system terms that don't automatically apply to every single area effect. So Flame Strike wouldn't be a valid spell to modify with Widen metamagic.

If you want to negotiate a houserule allowing for it, that's fine, but it's important to understand that it's a houserule and not an automatic part of the rules (in the Rules forum, we try to stick to RAW and away from houserule interpretations). It isn't about, "well, maybe it would be reasonable" or "well, it's not that powerful"; it's about what the rules actually say and how different rules elements interact with one another. Otherwise, we get situations like all Orcs and Half-Orcs being proficient with torches because racial weapon proficiency makes them proficient with any weapon with the word "orc" in its name (torch).


Thanks for the insight. I'd be doing this for PFS, si I'm going thigh the metamagics looking for the best ones for this spell.


Dazing!


Thundering feels really appropriate. So does flaring and solar, I really like the idea of combining solar and eclipse.

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