Sin Magic Benefits?


Rules Questions


Ok, so I'm starting a new class. I'm going with Admixture Wizard, I want to maximize damage with fireballs. I want to pick Sin Magic Specialist for my wizard and go for the Evocation specialist.

Now, I'm kinda new and sloppy in understanding spells and such, so I was wondering if I can get a confirmation on how the benefits of the Sin Magic Specialist works.

Sin Mages wrote:
Benefits: A Sin mage receives two additional spell slots of each spell level he can cast. These bonus spell slots must both be used to prepare the same spell from the wizard's school of specialization, allowing the wizard to cast that spell twice (as he has prepared the spell twice). The wizard cannot use these slots to prepare two different spells, even if they are of the school he is specialized in.

Does that mean that I get to cast two more Evocation Spells per Day?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A Sin Specialist would be able to memorize and cast 1 spell two extra times per day, for each spell level.

So 2 extra castings of a 0 level evocation spell (cantrip)
So 2 extra castings of a 1 level evocation spell
So 2 extra castings of a 2 level evocation spell
So on and on...


Yes. You get two arcane school bonus spell slots per day (one more than normal), but you have to prepare the same spell in both of the slots.


Awesome. Thanks.


Wait a minute. One more than normal, meaning that he doesn't get 3 in total if it's a 2nd level spell?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Having a specialized school gives you an extra school spell, being a sin specialist gives you 2 extra of the same school spell instead.


Wise Old Man, your spells per day will look like this (ignoring cantrips):

Level 1: 1st level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)

Level 2: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)

Level 3: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
2nd level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)

Rinse, lather, and repeat.

Enjoy blowing stuff up with fireballs and remember to take Maximize Metamagic feat to really put the hurt on!


Amazing. Thanks all.


I'm not sure what spells are in Abjuration and Conjuration schools off-hand, but I will say I don't think the Sin Magic Wizard is worth it. Losing the ability to prepare to schools of magic is huge. You can't prepare any Abjuration or Conjuration spells ever, and have to UMD magic items with those spells.

All for 1 extra spell slot (at each level of spells) over an evocation specialist wizard. It my opinion, it's not worth 1 extra spell a day per level.

You want to make a powerful evocation specialist? Take 1 level in corssblooded sorcerer with draconic and orc bloodlines. Then take all the rest of your levels in wizard. Thanks to the bloodline abilities from your 1 level of sorcerer you deal +2 damage per damage dice. You do way more damage from this one level dip into sorcerer. You don't even need charisma really, just start with 11 so you can actually use the spells from the 1 level.

Completely losing 2 schools of magic just isn't worth it in my opinion.


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For reference, this is all the spells you could never cast:

Acid Splash (Lvl 0)
Drench (Lvl 0)
Resistance (Lvl 0*)
Abundant Ammunition (Lvl 1)
Adhesive Spittle (Lvl 1)
Adjuring Step (Lvl 1)
Air Bubble (Lvl 1)
Alarm (Lvl 1)
Corrosive Touch (Lvl 1)
Endure Elements (Lvl 1)
Glue Seal (Lvl 1)
Grease (Lvl 1)
Hold Portal (Lvl 1)
Icicle Dagger (Lvl 1)
Infernal Healing (Lvl 1)
Invisibility Alarm (Lvl 1)
Ki Arrow (Lvl 1)
Line In The Sand (Lvl 1)
Mage Armor (Lvl 1)
Mount (Lvl 1)
Mudball (Lvl 1)
Obscuring Mist (Lvl 1)
Peacebond (Lvl 1)
Protection From Chaos (Lvl 1)
Protection From Evil (Lvl 1)
Protection From Good (Lvl 1)
Protection From Law (Lvl 1)
Shield (Lvl 1)
Shield Companion (Lvl 1*)
Shock Shield (Lvl 1)
Snowball (Lvl 1)
Stone Shield (Lvl 1*)
Stumble Gap (Lvl 1)
Stunning Barrier (Lvl 1)
Summon Minor Monster (Lvl 1)
Summon Monster I (Lvl 1)
Sunder Breaker (Lvl 1)
Theft Ward (Lvl 1)
Unseen Servant (Lvl 1)
Wave Shield (Lvl 1)
Web Bolt (Lvl 1)
Winter Feathers (Lvl 1)
Acid Arrow (Lvl 2)
Anti-Summoning Shield (Lvl 2*)
Arcane Lock (Lvl 2)
Arrow Eruption (Lvl 2)
Bullet Shield (Lvl 2)
Bullet Ward (Lvl 2)
Cloud Of Seasickness (Lvl 2)
Create Pit (Lvl 2)
Crimson Confession (Lvl 2)
Cushioning Bands (Lvl 2)
Death From Below (Lvl 2*)
Dust Of Twilight (Lvl 2)
Endure Elements, Communal (Lvl 2*)
Escaping Ward (Lvl 2)
Euphoric Cloud (Lvl 2)
Fiery Shuriken (Lvl 2)
Fog Cloud (Lvl 2)
Glitterdust (Lvl 2)
Lead Plating (Lvl 2*)
Miserable Pity (Lvl 2)
Mount, Communal (Lvl 2)
Obscure Object (Lvl 2*)
Protection From Arrows (Lvl 2)
Protection from Chaos, Communal (Lvl 2)
Protection from Evil, Communal (Lvl 2)
Protection from Good, Communal (Lvl 2)
Protection from Law, Communal (Lvl 2)
Protection From Technology (Lvl 2)
Reloading Hands (Lvl 2)
Resist Energy (Lvl 2*)
Retrieve Item (Lvl 2)
Returning Weapon (Lvl 2*)
River Whip (Lvl 2)
Slipstream (Lvl 2)
Stone Call (Lvl 2)
Stone Discus (Lvl 2)
Storm Of Blades (Lvl 2*)
Summon Cacodaemon (Lvl 2)
Summon Monster II (Lvl 2)
Summon Swarm (Lvl 2)
Suppres Charms and Compulsions (Lvl 2)
Warding Weapon (Lvl 2*)
Web (Lvl 2)
Web Shelter (Lvl 2)
Whip Of Spiders (Lvl 2)
Ablative Barrier (Lvl 3*)
Ablative Sphere (Lvl 3)
Aqueous Orb (Lvl 3)
Ash Storm (Lvl 3)
Blade Snare (Lvl 3)
Cloak of Winds (Lvl 3)
Discharge (Lvl 3)
Dispel Magic (Lvl 3*)
Dragon Turtle Shell (Lvl 3*)
Dweomer Retaliation (Lvl 3)
Explosive Runes (Lvl 3)
Force Anchor (Lvl 3*)
Gloomblind Bolts (Lvl 3)
Ice Spears (Lvl 3)
Ice Spears (Lvl 3)
Irradiate (Lvl 3*)
Mad Monkeys (Lvl 3)
Magic Circle against Chaos (Lvl 3)
Magic Circle against Evil (Lvl 3)
Magic Circle against Good (Lvl 3)
Magic Circle against Law (Lvl 3)
Nauseating Trail (Lvl 3)
Nondetection (Lvl 3*)
Numerological Resistance (Lvl 3)
Pellet Blast (Lvl 3*)
Phantom Driver (Lvl 3)
Phantom Steed (Lvl 3*)
Protection from Arrows, Communal (Lvl 3)
Protection from Energy (Lvl 3*)
Rain of Frogs (Lvl 3*)
Resist Energy, Communal (Lvl 3)
Returning Weapon, Communal (Lvl 3*)
Rune of Warding (Lvl 3)
Sepia Snake Sigil (Lvl 3)
Shield Companion (Lvl 3*)
Silver Darts (Lvl 3)
Sleet Storm (Lvl 3)
Spiked Pit (Lvl 3)
Stinking Cloud (Lvl 3)
Storm Step (Lvl 3)
Stunning Barrier, Greater (Lvl 3)
Summon Monster III (Lvl 3)
Summon Totem Creature (Lvl 3)
Swipe (Lvl 3*)
Unseen Engineers (Lvl 3*)
Acid Pit (Lvl 4)
Aram Zey's Trap Ward (Lvl 4)
Black Tentacles (Lvl 4*)
Charon's Dispensation (Lvl 4)
Conjure Deadfall (Lvl 4*)
Curse of Magic Negation (Lvl 4*)
Dimension Door (Lvl 4*)
Dimensional Anchor (Lvl 4*)
Enchantment Foil (Lvl 4)
Fire Trap (Lvl 4*)
Fleshworm Infestation (Lvl 4)
Freedom's Toast (Lvl 4*)
Ghost Wolf (Lvl 4*)
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (Lvl 4)
Infernal Healing, Greater (Lvl 4)
Magic Circle Against Technology (Lvl 4)
Minor Creation (Lvl 4*)
Nondetection, Communal (Lvl 4)
Phantom Chariot (Lvl 4*)
Phantom Steed, Communal (Lvl 4*)
Protection from Energy, Communal (Lvl 4*)
Rebuke Technology (Lvl 4)
Remove Curse (Lvl 4*)
Secure Shelter (Lvl 4)
Solid Fog (Lvl 4)
Spellcrash, Lesser (Lvl 4)
Stoneskin (Lvl 4*)
Summon Accuser (Lvl 4)
Summon Cacodaemon, Greater (Lvl 4*)
Summon Genie, Lesser (Lvl 4*)
Summon Monster IV (Lvl 4*)
Suppress Primal Magic (Lvl 4)
Touch of Slime (Lvl 4)
True Form (Lvl 4)
Vomit Twin (Lvl 4*)
Ward Shield (Lvl 4)
Web Cloud (Lvl 4)
Acidic Spray (Lvl 5)
Break Enchantment (Lvl 5*)
Cloudkill (Lvl 5)
Corrosive Consumption (Lvl 5)
Covetous Aura (Lvl 5)
Damnation Stride (Lvl 5*)
Dismissal (Lvl 5*)
Draconic Suppression (Lvl 5)
Geyser (Lvl 5*)
Hostile Juxtaposition (Lvl 5*)
Hungry Pit (Lvl 5)
Life Bubble (Lvl 5*)
Mage's Faithful Hound (Lvl 5*)
Mage's Private Sanctum (Lvl 5)
Major Creation (Lvl 5*)
Planar Binding, Lesser (Lvl 5*)
Secret Chest (Lvl 5)
Siphon Magic (Lvl 5)
Soothe Construct (Lvl 5*)
Spell Absorption (Lvl 5)
Stoneskin, Communal (Lvl 5*)
Summon Ceustodaemon (Lvl 5*)
Summon Genie (Lvl 5*)
Summon Infernal Host (Lvl 5)
Summon Lesser Demon (Lvl 5*)
Summon Lesser Psychopomp (Lvl 5*)
Summon Monster V (Lvl 5*)
Teleport (Lvl 5*)
Unbreakable Construct (Lvl 5)
Unseen Crew (Lvl 5*)
Wall Of Stone (Lvl 5*)
Whip Of Centipedes (Lvl 5)
Wreath of Blades (Lvl 5*)
Acid Fog (Lvl 6)
Antimagic Field (Lvl 6*)
Chains Of Light (Lvl 6*)
Conjure Black Pudding (Lvl 6*)
Discharge, Greater (Lvl 6)
Dispel Magic, Greater (Lvl 6*)
Genius Avaricious (Lvl 6)
Getaway (Lvl 6)
Globe Of Invulnerability (Lvl 6)
Guards and Wards (Lvl 6)
Ice Crystal Teleport (Lvl 6*)
Planar Binding (Lvl 6*)
Repulsion (Lvl 6*)
Spellcrash (Lvl 6)
Summon Flight of Eagles (Lvl 6*)
Summon Genie, Greater (Lvl 6*)
Summon Monster VI (Lvl 6)
Summon Vanth (Lvl 6*)
Symbol of Sealing (Lvl 6)
Teleport Structure (Lvl 6)
Undeath Ward (Lvl 6*)
Wall of Iron (Lvl 6*)
Whip Of Ants (Lvl 6)
Antitech Field (Lvl 7*)
Banishment (Lvl 7*)
Caustic Eruption (Lvl 7)
Circle Of Clarity (Lvl 7*)
Create Demiplane, Lesser (Lvl 7*)
Deflection (Lvl 7)
Dimensional Bounce (Lvl 7*)
Elemental Bombardment (Lvl 7)
Expend (Lvl 7)
Hostile Juxtaposition, Greater (Lvl 7*)
Instant Summons (Lvl 7)
Joyful Rapture (Lvl 7*)
Maddening Oubliette (Lvl 7)
Mage's Magnificent Mansion (Lvl 7)
Magnetic Field (Lvl 7*)
Phase Door (Lvl 7)
Plane Shift (Lvl 7*)
Rampart (Lvl 7)
Sequester (Lvl 7*)
Signifer's Rally (Lvl 7)
Soul Transfer (Lvl 7)
Spell Scourge (Lvl 7)
Spell Turning (Lvl 7*)
Summon Monster VII (Lvl 7*)
Teleport Object (Lvl 7)
Teleport Trap (Lvl 7)
Teleport, Greater (Lvl 7*)
Walk Through Space (Lvl 7*)
Call Construct (Lvl 8)
Create Demiplane (Lvl 8*)
Dimensional Lock (Lvl 8*)
Incendiary Cloud (Lvl 8*)
Maw Of Chaos (Lvl 8)
Maze (Lvl 8*)
Mind Blank (Lvl 8)
Planar Binding, Greater (Lvl 8*)
Prismatic Wall (Lvl 8)
Protection from Spells (Lvl 8*)
Rift of Ruin (Lvl 8)
Seamantle (Lvl 8)
Spell Absorption, Greater (Lvl 8)
Spellcrash, Greater (Lvl 8)
Spellscar (Lvl 8)
Summon Erodaemon (Lvl 8*)
Summon Meladaemon (Lvl 8*)
Summon Monster VIII (Lvl 8*)
Symbol Of Dispelling (Lvl 8)
Trap the Soul (Lvl 8)
Wall of Lava (Lvl 8)
Aroden's Spellbane (Lvl 9)
Clashing Rocks (Lvl 9)
Create Demiplane, Greater (Lvl 9)
Echean's Excellent Enclosure (Lvl 9)
Freedom (Lvl 9)
Gate (Lvl 9)
Imprisonment (Lvl 9)
Interplanetary Teleport (Lvl 9)
Mage's Disjunction (Lvl 9)
Mind Blank, Communal (Lvl 9)
Prismatic Sphere (Lvl 9)
Refuge (Lvl 9*)
Spawn Calling (Lvl 9)
Summon Derghodaemon (Lvl 9)
Summon Greater Demon (Lvl 9)
Summon Monster IX (Lvl 9)
Summon Thanadaemon (Lvl 9)
Symbol of Vulnerability (Lvl 9)
Teleportation Circle (Lvl 9*)
Tsunami (Lvl 9)
Wall of Suppression (Lvl 9)
Wooden Phalanx (Lvl 9)


Yeah, I was planning on the tattoo dip actually.

That is a lot of spells, I must say. I might regret it, you're right. But 2 more spell slots, even if it has to be the same spell is pretty insane in my opinion.

With everything that LizardMage said, you get to cast 4 additional spell slots per day. With Empower Spell feat, and Maximize Spell Rod, Lesser you can basically do 200+ dmg admixtured ice ball 3 times to a red dragon at level 5.

And have
2 other 3rd level spells,
3 (+3 evocation) = 6 2nd spells,
4 (+3 evocation) = 7 1st level spells.

And later levels with Maximize and Intensify feat with Rods of Quicken, and Empower...

You give up two schools, you can't fly, teleport, plane shift, black tentacles, dispel magic, sure, those are some big blows. But you're gaining additional spells to cast, it's rare to increase the number of spells you can cast per day, and to me, having more spells is better than having no spells.

I'm okay with it. Maybe I haven't fully thought it through, I'm not sure. :)


If you're going to be that focused on outputting large numbers of spells, straight Sorcerer is probably better -you won't have many utility spells, but you can grab the utility spells you want rather than being cut off from a number of them.

Also, I'm fairly certain what you're planning doesn't work - while the Archives of Nethys lists Thasilonian magic as an archetype, checking Inner Sea Magic says that they're actually Schools. The PRD also lists Admixture as a School. Thus, when you take your first level in wizard, you can only select one of these for your Arcane School feature, unless there's an archetype I'm unaware of that lets you choose two Schools.

As always, check with your GM.


I second what Chris just said, there are a few things you have mentioned you will want to check with your GM.

1. As written, if you pick Thasilonian magic you cannot pick up admixture, which can hinder a blasting build.

2. You mentioned "tattoo dip" I am assuming you are wanting to dip tattooed and crossblooded sorcerer. There are many threads on these boards talking about this. The consensus is that it doesn't work for pfs and probably doesn't work in general, but there is debate there. Talk to you GM to see what he thinks.

3. You mention +3 evocation spells. Thasilonian magic replaces the regular evocation school, so you don't get the +1 from evocation school and than +2 more from thasilonian, it is just +2 from thasilonian. I think this was covered up thread but it may have been missed.


Sorry to say that subschools are not an option for sin mages.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ldw0&page=2?The-FAQ-That-Time-Forg %20ot#57

I'm sure many GMs wouldn't mind allowing it anyway. Though personally I think Admixture is powerful enough as is, but I also think sin mages are also usually powerful enough too. But if you're extremely fond of Fireball (for good reason if so), Admixture without sin mage may be the better option since fire is the most common resistance/immunity.

Ah, ninja'd a bit while previewing!


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Jayder22 wrote:

You mentioned "tattoo dip" I am assuming you are wanting to dip tattooed and crossblooded sorcerer. There are many threads on these boards talking about this. The consensus is that it doesn't work for pfs and probably doesn't work in general, but there is debate there. Talk to you GM to see what he thinks.

You mention +3 evocation spells. Thasilonian magic replaces the regular evocation school, so you don't get the +1 from evocation school and than +2 more from thasilonian, it is just +2 from thasilonian. I think this was covered up thread but it may have been missed.

I'm aware of the tattoo dip.

The regular 3 comes from a high intelligence, and the bracketed 3rd spell slot is when you specialize in a school, from Evocation, as Rysky mentioned, plus the Sin Magic.

----

Ouch. Right from the lead designer. :P

I don't want the sin magic for extra fireballs per say, I want it for extra evocation spells.


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I find it sad that he personally designed Thassilonian Specialist and intended for it to not allow sub schools yet it doesn't even mention that fact in there anywhere. I personally have never read a designer say that they ment for something to be used in some way or do something without any evidence of that in the ability itself.

by raw, sub school away imo. sub schools are still part of the over arching school.

does PFS have a ruling on thassilonian specialist and sub schools?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
vhok wrote:
does PFS have a ruling on thassilonian specialist and sub schools?

Sort of. ^_^

PFS Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic

Equipment: riffle scrolls (any spell augmented by the Silent Spell metamagic feat; price equals the spell's effective level × the caster's level × 25 gp); Feats: all feats on pages 10 and 15; Prestige Classes: A cyphermage replaces any Spell Focus feat for Scribe Scroll as a prerequisite, and may not choose the swift scrivener ability from the list of available cypher lore; the divine scion functions as written; Spells: all spells in chapter 5 except impart mind, and spellscar; Other: all magical tattoos on page 16; both the spellscar and outer rifts oracle mysteries on pages 30–31 (the spellscar oracle does not gain access to the eldritch scar, primal mastery or trigger primal magic event revelations); all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi; a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios); a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; Upon gaining 8th level, the Varisian Pilgrim may gain the 8th-level ability Blessing of the Harrow as long as the player possesses a Harrow deck.

(It's not normally legal in PFS, is what I'm getting at.)


Damn...It's gonna be hard trying to convince my GM that the thassilonian specialist doesn't stack with admixture, now with this info...

Is there anything else that maybe takes away the arcane bond for something that could combine with the admixture?


Wise Old Man wrote:
Jayder22 wrote:
You mention +3 evocation spells. Thasilonian magic replaces the regular evocation school, so you don't get the +1 from evocation school and than +2 more from thasilonian, it is just +2 from thasilonian. I think this was covered up thread but it may have been missed.

The regular 3 comes from a high intelligence, and the bracketed 3rd spell slot is when you specialize in a school, from Evocation, as Rysky mentioned, plus the Sin Magic.

----

Ouch. Right from the lead designer. :P

I don't want the sin magic for extra fireballs per say, I want it for extra evocation spells.

One of us is definitely misunderstanding.

Normally specializing in a school gives you 1 extra bonus slot for that school of magic on top of your normal spells per day, plus any bonus slots for high int.

I believe Sin Magic specialist instead gets 2 extra bonus spell slots of that school that must be the same spell, plus the normal spells per day, plus any bonus for high int.

For an otherwise identically built character, the Sin Magic specialist only gets 1 more spell per day per spell level.

You seem to be under the impression you get 1 slot from specializing in the school, 2 from sin specialist, plus the normal spell slots, plus bonus slots from int. I'm fairly certain that's not how it works.


As James Jacobs said: "Thassilonian specialists say nothing about the school powers because they don't change those at all. They have standard school powers, in other words, for their chosen specialty."

Logically speaking, having standard school powers means that you still have to pick your school, and that the Sin Magic Specialist isn't represented as a school.

So yes, you do get that extra 2 from sin specialist, and 1 from picking your school.


Wise Old Man wrote:

As James Jacobs said: "Thassilonian specialists say nothing about the school powers because they don't change those at all. They have standard school powers, in other words, for their chosen specialty."

Logically speaking, having standard school powers means that you still have to pick your school, and that the Sin Magic Specialist isn't represented as a school.

So yes, you do get that extra 2 from sin specialist, and 1 from picking your school.

that will never EVER fly In PFS. in a homegame you might be able to convince your GM but that depends on them.


vhok wrote:


that will never EVER fly In PFS. in a homegame you might be able to convince your GM but that depends on them.

I don't see why not. The way it's written seems to match up with WOM's reading and from a balance perspective sacrificing two schools of magic completely to be able to recast your bonus spell once is a hilariously bad trade.


It is what it is.


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Claxon wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
Jayder22 wrote:
You mention +3 evocation spells. Thasilonian magic replaces the regular evocation school, so you don't get the +1 from evocation school and than +2 more from thasilonian, it is just +2 from thasilonian. I think this was covered up thread but it may have been missed.

The regular 3 comes from a high intelligence, and the bracketed 3rd spell slot is when you specialize in a school, from Evocation, as Rysky mentioned, plus the Sin Magic.

----

Ouch. Right from the lead designer. :P

I don't want the sin magic for extra fireballs per say, I want it for extra evocation spells.

One of us is definitely misunderstanding.

Normally specializing in a school gives you 1 extra bonus slot for that school of magic on top of your normal spells per day, plus any bonus slots for high int.

I believe Sin Magic specialist instead gets 2 extra bonus spell slots of that school that must be the same spell, plus the normal spells per day, plus any bonus for high int.

For an otherwise identically built character, the Sin Magic specialist only gets 1 more spell per day per spell level.

You seem to be under the impression you get 1 slot from specializing in the school, 2 from sin specialist, plus the normal spell slots, plus bonus slots from int. I'm fairly certain that's not how it works.

That is how I read it also. You get 2 "instead of" 1, not 2+1.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't have my books at hand but maybe someone might have a look at the BBEG's from RotRL statblock to resolve this question.

Ruyan.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Based on the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, it is indeed 2-instead-of-1. ^_^


Sorry, I'm confused.
What's 2 instead 1?

And you still get the +1 spell slot from picking your school, right?


Kalindlara wrote:
Based on the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, it is indeed 2-instead-of-1. ^_^
Squiggit wrote:
vhok wrote:


that will never EVER fly In PFS. in a homegame you might be able to convince your GM but that depends on them.
I don't see why not. The way it's written seems to match up with WOM's reading and from a balance perspective sacrificing two schools of magic completely to be able to recast your bonus spell once is a hilariously bad trade.

Which indeed does make it a hilariously bad trade, which is why I'm here trying to tell the OP it's not even worth it. Completely losing two schools of magic isn't worth 1 extra spell slot per level where in 2 must be the same spell and restricted to 1 school of magic.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Sorry, I'm confused.

What's 2 instead 1?

And you still get the +1 spell slot from picking your school, right?

No, that's what we're saying. You don't.

That's why it's really terrible.


It might be marginally better for a school with good save-or-suck spells you might genuinely want duplicates of, but for evocation you're definitely better off just increasing the damage per spell.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I've always interpreted it as 3.


Ravingdork wrote:
I've always interpreted it as 3.

I've always interpreted it as 2. But now that I look at it, it does seem like 3.


well the npc's done up by paizo who have it have 1 spell more than normal so its 2

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed an abusive post and response. Let's keep discussions in our Rules Questions subforum about the questions being asked and take unrelated commentary elsewhere.

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