Neal Litherland |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I get why "adventurer" is a part of the game's lexicon. It's an easy, catchall term for the sorts of professional lunatics that would volunteer for dragon slaying, undead hunting, and giant fighting. But I find that the catchall term, when players throw it down, tends to be more of a story crutch, and it leads to poorly fleshed out concepts. That's why I put together my pitch for this strategy in Stop Using The Word "Adventurer" And See How It Changes Your Game.
It's not for everyone, but for those who share my feelings on the word, give it a try. I've had good results, and a few other tables have opted to use my strategy.
Lincoln Hills |
9 people marked this as a favorite. |
Bilbo: Burglar?!
Thorin: You can say 'expert treasure-finder' if you prefer. Some of them do: it's all the same to us.
I do know exactly what you mean. My NPCs don't use the term themselves - sometimes they need explorers, or thief-takers, crusaders, patsies, bounty hunters, raiders, champions or giant-killers. Somebody who regards all this as 'adventuring' sounds quite insane to them. The PCs aren't in one all-encompassing profession: they drift from job to job. You know, like hobos. Murderous hobos.
silverrey |
19 people marked this as a favorite. |
Person 1: Alright. We need a group of people to kill the bandits in the area, slay the dragon, clean up the graveyard, and preferably do so for next to no money.
Person 2: ... So a bunch of homicidal morons?
Person 1: Yes but do you want to call someone who can kill a dragon a moron?
Person 2: No. I like my head where it is... So what do we say? "Brave knights wanted"?
Person 1: Maybe... We might just get more people like the old guy attacking the windmills out back though...
Person 2: That's true.... I got it! "Adventures" It sounds glamorous while still meaning does crazy on the cheap.
Person 1: Perfect! "Adventures wanted" it is.
thejeff |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even the article continues to assume you're basically doing jobs for money. That's actually rarely been the case in games I've played, which is probably why I never really started using the word "adventurer" in the first place.
It's a convenient hook for modules, since the module writer doesn't know anything about what might motivate your PCs, but it's rarely used in APs, beyond maybe the first adventure. Home-brewed campaigns can usually find other motivations as well.
Zaister |
13 people marked this as a favorite. |
No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
Neal Litherland |
No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
cuatroespada |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
considering language is a cooperative process, i think the point was that "adventurer" doesn't actually tell us anything useful.
MannyGoblin |
A team of government agents who are in the employ of 'Section Bebbletoe' who go out and engage in activities that other groups such as the miullitia/army are not trained or equipped to handle.
Like a hostage rescue team, British SAS force that shoots people in the face because talky-time is over, or intelligence gathering team that monitors enemy forces in an area and perhaps does some sabotage so the main force has an easier time.
silverrey |
Zaister wrote:No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
By the same token what would you expect the average character to say? "I kill goblins, bandits, skeletons, zombies, animals of all sizes, dragons, giants, most anything that you would think of as "monsters"... I also guard caravans, nobles, pilgrims, refugees, most anyone who needs an escort really. I am also willing to deliver messages and/or packages to most any place so long as the pay is worth the trip... Oh! And I also will explore new ruins, dungeons, cave, buildings, or planes of existence."
Seriously that is just the baseline fighter... Add in the rouge skill set, wizard spells, or cleric healing and it will get that much longer. The short answer is "I am here to fix whatever problem is going on here." Not a whole lot of job titles, either RW or in game, cover that.
*Edit* TriOmegaZero said it a lot more cleanly.
thejeff |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Zaister wrote:No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
Thing is, if that's a reasonable thing to do in your game world - put up posters advertising for people to take down bandit lords, do dragon slaying, undead hunting and giant fighting, it makes sense there would be a term for people who do that kind of thing. Who would take on any of that very broad set of jobs. Because's that's the trope the game is working with, right?
It's got to be an accepted thing in the game world, that there are small groups of people wandering around doing crazy jobs for little reason - or no one would be putting up posters advertising for them. If they needed a posse to take on the bandits, the sheriff would deputize some of the trusted local citizens and lead them, not hire a bunch of random yahoos.
So this is a trope and adventurer is a real thing, because that simplifies the game. The whole point is to justify hiring the PCs for the job, not come up with reasons for them not to get it. So whatever wacky combination of skills they really have, or what they did before or what they do in their downtime, the job of the party is "adventurers".
Mind you, all this is really only necessary if you do want to hook the players for adventures by having random strangers hire them. Avoid that and it's much easier to avoid the concept.
I don't use it when I run and I prefer to avoid it when I play.
cuatroespada |
i actually have a hard time referring to anything other than a group of fictional characters that i don't know enough about to be more specific as "adventurers". it's a weird thing to describe oneself as because to other people it really doesn't mean much of anything. what do you consider adventurous? given more information i will always avoid calling someone an adventurer.
Pillbug Toenibbler |
kyrt-ryder wrote:Is this one of the rogue talents that is also available to slayers, or is it rogue-only?TOZ wrote:A rouge talent?silverrey wrote:TriOmegaZero said it a lot more cleanly.It's a talent.
It's available to anyone who can take rogue talents, but it does have minimum prerequisites for Int, Wis, and Cha.
silverrey |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
The word "adventurer" is like "trouble-shooter" or whatever you want to compare it to. A general term for someone who deals with the unusual situations that PCs encounter.
NPC: So what exactly do you DO for a living?
PC: I am an IT Technician.
NPC: ...IT Technician?
PC: "Issue Termination Technician" It means you give me an issue and I break things in ways you can't even imagine until your issue goes away.
NPC: ...
PC: So what do you need me to "fix"?
KestrelZ |
Much like the names of Classes, I tend to view the term adventurer as an out of character, generic term rather than an in-game term.
This doesn't mean that a group of Pathfinder explorers would object to being termed as adventurers by someone, it's just not a universal term. Players may refer to a character as a fighter, yet in character references may list the character as a soldier, knight, samurai, warrior, gladiator, mercenary, or any other term marking someone that may be skilled with weapons of war. A cleric class character may be referred to in character as a priest, disciple, monk, hermit, acolyte, scholar, missionary, or any of a number of things.
Telling your friends that the characters they play should be adventurous heroes just sets the expectation stage, is all. Murderhobos might be closer to the truth, yet I won't encourage my players to play that style by simple saying that is what they will be playing.
Neal Litherland |
Neal Litherland wrote:By the same token what would you expect the average character to say? "I kill goblins, bandits, skeletons, zombies, animals of all sizes, dragons, giants, most anything that you would think of as "monsters"... I also guard caravans, nobles, pilgrims, refugees, most anyone who needs an escort really. I am also willing to deliver messages and/or packages to most any place so long as the pay is worth the trip... Oh! And I also will explore new ruins, dungeons, cave, buildings, or planes of existence."...Zaister wrote:No.
Doesn't have anything to do with PC motivation for me. An adventurer is someone who goes on adventures. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is exactly what PCs usually do.
Anything beyond that is your interpretation.
Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
What I expect, since you asked my opinion, is for a player to have a pitch for why they're the right person for the job.
Sort of like the scene in Blazing Saddles, but for heroes instead of bastards. Why should we take you with us on this raid against a bandit camp? "6 years with the Korvosan guard. I've dealt with highwaymen before, and I know their kind." Awesome, you're hired. What about you? "I graduated suma cum laude from Egorian's mage's university. If we need backup, all I need is about 6 seconds to call in reinforcements." Lovely, you're in. What about you? "War drummer on the border keep. I've seen this, and plenty worse. I can keep the men in line, and give us an edge." Sure, sounds good.
You can say, "adventurer," or "troubleshooter," but those words don't mean anything. They're just a generic term. Since you should already know what you do, and have your resume that justifies where your abilities came from, why bother with the generic stuff at all? Just launch into your character-specific qualifications like a Tarantino-style introduction.
TriOmegaZero |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
You can say, "adventurer," or "troubleshooter," but those words don't mean anything. They're just a generic term.
That seems contradictory. They do mean something, just not the specific job you are looking for. They are still valid titles.
bugleyman |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I personally dislike the term "adventurer," because I don't like the idea of so many people running around doing this that they need a name.
Imagine if the Rebel Alliance had just hired "a party of adventurers" to blow up the death start, or if Gandalf had simply posted a want-ad for "some adventurers" in order to take the ring to Mordor.
Not for me, thanks. To me, that's one of the negative corollaries of an overly codified and stimulationist ruleset.
Zaister |
Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
I don't know, that is simoply not the kind of game I play. I'd probably say your hypothetical employer is looking for bounty hunters.
An individual adventurere migh describet his personal abilities in a certain way, sure, but as a group, I have no problem with them describing themseles as adventurers.
But again, I don't usually play games where the PCs are hired as bounty hunters or the like. Sounds boring. I prefer a campaign that has an actual plot that involves the characters in some personal way, beyond "I'm just doing what I'm paid for".
thejeff |
Neal Litherland wrote:Zaister, I will pose this to you, then.
Say you put up a poster asking for a posse to hunt down a bandit lord. You want capable, experienced people with the skills to get the job done. Then some yahoo comes up to you, and when you ask what he does all he tells you is that he's an adventurer.
That's great, but what does that mean? By using the term in-game, you're still going to have people asking what you can actually do, and requesting a list of your previous exploits and history before giving you the job. And it's bad enough when NPCs are doing it, but if a new PC is approaching the group, that's essentially a job interview. You need to make your case as to why the company should hire you on. Wasting time with a job title that doesn't mean anything can make you look foolish, especially if you never thought beyond that label.
As usual, I don't have the power to make anyone do anything. I am not on staff as a game creator, and if people don't like my suggestions, they're free to not use them. However, pointing out that someone saying they're an "adventurer" and expecting that to mean something when it could be anything from treasure hunter and arcane scholar, to assassin or pirate doesn't seem unreasonable.
I don't know, that is simoply not the kind of game I play. I'd probably say your hypothetical employer is looking for bounty hunters.
An individual adventurere migh describet his personal abilities in a certain way, sure, but as a group, I have no problem with them describing themseles as adventurers.
But again, I don't usually play games where the PCs are hired as bounty hunters or the like. Sounds boring. I prefer a campaign that has an actual plot that involves the characters in some personal way, beyond "I'm just doing what I'm paid for".
Agreed.
And if they describe themselves as bounty hunters to get the "hunt the bandit lord" job, obviously they're not going to get the "stop the undead rising from the old tomb" job, since that's not bounty hunter work."Adventurer" is a broad term because the kinds of jobs PCs do are very broad.
Mind you, if I was trying to get hired by an adventuring group, I'd describe my particular skills, but I'd still be looking for the "adventurer" job. The group is a group of adventurers. Each has their speciality within the group.
Of course, as you say, that's if we're a company hiring ourselves out for work, with has been very rare in games I've been in.
Cantriped |
I found the article interesting, but no... we can't stop using "adventurer" it has a purpose and a place in the genre.
At my current table I'm running a campaign where all of the characters are literally members of "The Adventurers Guild" (TM). The Guild takes all sorts of odd jobs, from all sorts of odd people, and assigns small parties to go and do them... usually for money.
I know it's simple and contrived, and that is the point. It's a campaign I run when I don't want to worry about what my players are bringing to the table, or how I'm going to get their characters to go to some random, gods-forsaken part of the world and kill goblins, orcs, undead, vermin, and whathaveyou so that we can all have a good time.
Pillbug Toenibbler |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
no.
This is random., arbitrary nonsense masquerading as wisdom. I cant recall the last time i saw more words say less
You obviously don't read my posts.
...Or you have, and the resulting brain damage/trauma/SAN drain has caused memory loss. In which case, sorry.
---
Also, the PCs almost always go to the difficulty/task/conflict. They seek it out; they journey, often to new and memorable locales. They go on an adventure.
BigNorseWolf |
BigNorseWolf wrote:no.
This is random., arbitrary nonsense masquerading as wisdom. I cant recall the last time i saw more words say less
You obviously don't read my posts.
...Or you have, and the resulting brain damage/trauma/SAN drain has caused memory loss. In which case, sorry.
---
Also, the PCs almost always go to the difficulty/task/conflict. They seek it out; they journey, often to new and memorable locales. They go on an adventure.
you've had less words say less
and lots of things beat you to the brain damage.