Proposal: Optional exchange of Day Job Checks for limited consumable crafting


Pathfinder Society


I have a suggestion, give casters the option to craft wands and potions if they forgo one or more day job checks. The idea is to allow casters to buy, possibly at crafting prices, potions and wands using their own caster level and stats. This would probably work best if there was a cap on the spell level that you could use this option with. I do not have a system fully fleshed out at this time. I thought that I would run the basic idea past people before developing it further. Also, you may prefer to work out the details among yourselves. Everyone, please let me know what you think.

Grand Lodge 2/5

I'm not saying this isn't a good idea, but a lot of effort would have to go in to expected DCs so that the benefit of crafting wouldn't far outweigh the benefits of a day job.

Day Jobs cap out at 150g if you can make a DC 40 check (not including boons that extend that). A level 1 wand costs 375g to craft (outside of PFS). To keep crafting comparable with day jobs, you'd have to make a DC ~55 check to earn 375*, and that's not even including the extra 375 for the price of the item.

This isn't even including any level of abuse for being able to get higher caster level first level spells. I simply don't see any way for this to be introduced in a balanced matter for organized play.

*based on no-math, off-the-cuff extrapolation, it's just an estimate that DC 55 day job is roughly equivalent to 375g.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Put ranks in Craft (carpentry, for wands), or Profession (brewer, for potions), or Profession (scribe, for scrolls).

Once you've saved up enough gold from your Day Job checks, purchase what you want, and say you made it.


Nefreet wrote:

Put ranks in Craft (carpentry, for wands), or Profession (brewer, for potions), or Profession (scribe, for scrolls).

Once you've saved up enough gold from your Day Job checks, purchase what you want, and say you made it.

An interesting alternative, but what I am seeking is a way to have a wand, or other consumable, that uses my stat and caster level.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Wouldn't that lessen the appeal of receiving such an item on a Chronicle Sheet?

Plus, it'd only benefit casters. Spending money from a Day Job is universal, and you'd also have a skill that could be relevant during play.


Nefreet wrote:

Wouldn't that lessen the appeal of receiving such an item on a Chronicle Sheet?

Plus, it'd only benefit casters. Spending money from a Day Job is universal, and you'd also have a skill that could be relevant during play.

Then maybe a better proposal would be for a way to buy consumables that have higher stat and caster level. Or is this already allowed?

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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Nohwear wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

Wouldn't that lessen the appeal of receiving such an item on a Chronicle Sheet?

Plus, it'd only benefit casters. Spending money from a Day Job is universal, and you'd also have a skill that could be relevant during play.

Then maybe a better proposal would be for a way to buy consumables that have higher stat and caster level. Or is this already allowed?

Only if it's on a chronicle sheet.

John Compton doesn't think allowing open buying of higher caster level consumables is a good idea.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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We go through these kinds of discussion every few months. "PCs have gotten too powerful. Let's impose restrictions." "Can we change the rules so my PC can get more powerful?"

Within 24 hours we've got one thread proposing that we cap the power of PCs so that they actually face a challenge instead of brushing it off. We've got this one proposing that we allow PCs to get more powerful items.

You know what that says to me? That the rules as they stand make the average challenge just about right.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, Canada—Manitoba aka Kess, Humble Servant of Abadar

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No. Absolutely not any any circumstances should we allow such a change. For reasons to numerous to mention but have been brought up in many other posts.


This would be great for alchemists and investigators, way way too great.

Their spell lists are tilted pretty heavily towards self buffs which make great potions. Forgoing a day job check to basically get an extra 3rd level spell in my next adventure seems like a great trade off. For instance a CL9 heroism potion should cost 1350 g.p. so giving up a day job roll to craft that is a no brainer.

5/5

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Casters in no way need to be made more powerful. This is a terrible idea.

Scarab Sages

Some of these types of mechanics already exist:

For scrolls, check out the Scrollmaster Wizard's 10th level ability, or the Pathfinder Savant's 3rd level ability.

For wands, there is the wizard discovery Staff-like Wand, though this particular ability is not legal for PFS, perhaps indicating a stance towards such abilities for wands? Perhaps not, because there is the magus arcana Wand Mastery that allows the magus to use his ability score to set the DC of a wand, and it can even be used in spell combat with the Wand Wielder arcana.

For potions, there is the alchemist discovery Enhance Potion that gives a X/day use your level for the level of a potion.

Related to that, magical staves scale with your level and ability score, though they can be quite expensive.


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I've wondered about this for a while. I like crafting for flavor reasons, but I think it is very easily abused in an organized play campaign.

So if we all agree it would be a terrible idea and a fruitless exercise given John's point on chronicles, can we not then theorycraft? Perhaps we can explore it as a potential boon or chronicle option? I think it would be fun to explore this without breaking the power level or wealth-by-level curves. And when I say fun my -1 is a master jeweler, wears four magic rings, spent eidolon's evolution points on skill focus (Craft: jeweler) and hands out emerald rings as business cards, all for no mechanical benefit.


Personally I'd love to see almost every chronicle with a partially charged wand or an above minimum caster level scroll, potion or wand. Those are items people would buy.

And realistically why isn't there a market in Golarian for things like a CL6 barkskin?

Scarab Sages 4/5

A large portion of the recent chronicles do have partially charged wands on them. Higher CL items are less common, but there has been an increase in them in the last couple of years.

I have a Wand Wielder Magus, and I've been trying to decide if Wand Mastery is even worth it. With my 20 INT, it would take a level 1 Wand DC from 11 to 16. A level 2 Wand from 13 to 17. But I'll be 7th level when/if I take it, so those DCs aren't that impressive. And the higher level the wand, the less benefit you get from using your INT bonus. A 3rd level Wand would be DC 15, or DC 18 with the arcana, but I'm unlikely to spend the money on a 3rd level Wand unless it's a partially charged one on a chronicle.

I do think that boosting a wand/scroll DC should be available through an Arcanist Exploit. It seems like a natural extension of the other item and magic manipulation options the class has already.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Indiana—Hammond

I would say no, as it would give some classes an advantage over others. Also, I joke that at times my experiences with Living City felt like Living Swap Meet as people wanted my wizard character to make things.

I am concerned that we would have self-buffing improving for a lot of characters, while some people would not benefit.

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