I am in the process of finishing up a vigilante that I've been tinkering with since my GM asked me some uncomfortable questions about my current character in preparation for the next game (i.e., "What is his will save?" and "Is he immune to anything?" or the REALLY scary one "if your character was turned into a monster, what kind would you imagine him to be?" :P )
The idea was a guy that fights the good fight with his fists while wearing full plate armor. All of his combat abilities can be used with either Unarmed Strike or Gauntlets, I just need to know which weapon to put on his character sheet in the appropriate places.
My first thought was that Unarmed Strike worked with Gauntlets, so I would just put that, but then I thought I remembered people saying that that wasn't the case, so I decided to do some research. Now I'm more confused than ever.
The arguments that I'm seeing against them working together are things like:
"What's the purpose of Amulets of Mighty Fists if you can just enchant Gauntlets and they work with Unarmed Strike?"
I think the purpose is that the amulet is cheaper. If I wanted to use the amulet to add +1 to two fists, it's 4000gp. If I wanted to use enchanted gauntlets to add +1 to two fists, it's 4604gp. An amulet also allows you to add an enchantment without needing a minimum +1 enhancement bonus, in case you are strapped for cash and really want that Guided/Agile/Furious/whatever. What the gauntlets can give you, however, is variety (for that Frost fist/Fire fist 1-2 punch) and it can go over +5 (total) enchantment whereas the amulet cannot.
The second one I keep seeing is:
"Gauntlets allow you to make an unarmed attack deal lethal damage. An unarmed attack is not an unarmed strike."
This argument REALLY confuses me simply because if that were the case you couldn't do a Stunning Fist with an unarmed strike. As per the PRD: "Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw...". There are also a number of Styles (to be fair, when I first started looking into this I didn't notice that most of the references in the style feats were either 3rd party or in the table descriptive text and not in the feat itself, or in feats similar to Stunning Fist, such as Dazing Fist, but...) Stag Horns says: "While using Charging Stag Style, if you make a successful unarmed attack at the end of a charge". There's nothing special under Monk or the specific feats that says that they can use an unarmed strike in place of an unarmed attack for these feats (or anything else like that). So what am I missing?
I did see that the brass knuckle description was changed from Advanced Player's Guide to Adventurer's Armory to remove the specific section about Monk unarmed damage. From what I can gather that was because people thought it was unbalanced, but I don't see it... but that doesn't matter. Nothing that I can find says that gauntlets were changed, so, as far as I can tell, "a strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack" means that you can use an unarmed strike, unless there's a specific errata or FAQ that I'm missing.
Now, again, I must point out that the character I've made works just as well if his abilities say (Unarmed Strike) or (Gauntlet). They are interchangeable for him. I just need to know what to put on the sheet. While it may end up making a difference in the future, right now it only would really be noticeable if my character were in his civilian identity and attacked. If Unarmed Strike works with Gauntlets then he'll still be dangerous. If not, then he'll have to flee or try to put them on before he can do anything.
BONUS ROUND:
Two other gauntlet-related questions came up while I was building my character.
1) If I pay the money for adamantine full-plate (which normally comes with gauntlets), are the gauntlets adamantine as well automatically or do I have to pay the weapon cost twice (and/or the base weapon cost twice) for them to be adamantine as well?
2) If I were to enchant the gauntlets with Throwing and Returning, as an attack action can I throw a gauntlet, have it hit the target, then return at the end of the round back on my hand ready to attack again? Yes, I realize how silly that sounds, but I WANT MY ROCKET PUNCH, DANGIT!
Side note: I realize that "ask your GM" is probably going to be mentioned since this isn't for PFS, and I know that's a valid answer. Just so you know, I already have and I'm still waiting to hear back. Since I have a habit of creating a ton of backup characters that never see the light of day, he tends to not answer my questions until they actually matter for the game (sometimes he does... sometimes he just looks at me like I'm crazy... like the throwing/returning gauntlet question :D ). I just wanted some opinions whilst I wait.
THANKS!
Gauntlets are very very confusing, IIRC according to the most recent FAQ gauntlets are non-weapon weapons and you can't enchant them at all, so you still need AOMF.
If this is true, that changes everything. Do you remember where that is? I couldn't find it in any of the FAQs and it wasn't on d20pfsrd nor did I see anything like that in the prd.
Both sites just had gauntlets under weapons.
I'd advise the Cestus or spiked gauntlet if you can come to terms with it. They are structured more as weapons for the purpose of threatening, lethal, etc.
Gauntlets are very very confusing, IIRC according to the most recent FAQ gauntlets are non-weapon weapons and you can't enchant them at all, so you still need AOMF.If this is true, that changes everything. Do you remember where that is? I couldn't find it in any of the FAQs and it wasn't on d20pfsrd nor did I see anything like that in the prd.
Both sites just had gauntlets under weapons.
As Imbicatus says, it's not an actual FAQ but a rule clarification sent to Hero Labs. Hopefully an actual FAQ will clear it up because gauntlets and (magic) special material gauntlets and AoMF are kinda in a weird interaction territory right now.
I'd advise the Cestus or spiked gauntlet if you can come to terms with it. They are structured more as weapons for the purpose of threatening, lethal, etc.
Fist of the Avenger mentions gauntlets, so I don't know how that would work with Cestus.
I never considered Spiked Gauntlets because it didn't fit the idea I had for the Vigilante, but I can look into it.
It's funny, it NEVER occurred to me that a potential solution was to consider Gauntlets as NOT a weapon...
Oh, and thanks for the references to the Herolab posts. I don't use Herolab (and I don't know anyone who does) so it isn't something on my radar.
I FAQ'd that post, btw. Thanks!
Yes, Gauntlets are in limbo right now. And "really really soon!" we might have a FAQ for it.
So best is to ask GM if you're thinking of using gauntlets. OR skip all the hassle and just use IUS.
You're a vigilante, Justice is your weapon, and Resolve your armor.
All else is irrelevant. :)