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I just finished playing a 7-11 adventure with 2 pregens (1 player didn't have a 7-11 character and we needed a second due to a 3 player table). I have to say, I was very impressed by how the pregen arcanist and hunter functioned. Very effective and useful even though the scenario was not very favorable for them (lots of DR that was difficult for the wolf or hunter to defeat, SR that limited the arcanist in 2/3 of the encounters); it didn't feel like having "pregens" at the table at all. They both pulled their weight and were fun to play (I had fun running the hunter for the DM and the arcanist's player enjoyed it too).
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At first and fourth level Hakon has become my favourite to round out a martial heavy party. Decent mix of knowledges, social and damage dealing. His skills do taper off a bit at level seven but he's much more scary in combat at that level.
Adowyn has become my go to when a player asks about using a ranger like pregen.
I've seen Kess be effective for players that just want someone who hits things.
Overall they are quite a good bunch.
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Shardra is a darn Swiss Army Knife, with healing, support buff/debuff, tanking, and AoE/crowd control all rocking the casbah.
And that's before we even consider the hexes she has available (which is what initially drew me to the pregen after reading the nifty backstory.)
I've played her in several 7-11s and 5-9s and the only time I've felt 'outmatched' is when *the entire party* has felt outmatched.
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It's worth noting that she has those at 7th level. She doesn't have them at 1st. If she did have decent options, I would be playing her through pretty much every Quest line because she's awesome and shamans are awesome. But the level 1 version of her feels like pulling teeth to contribute to the party.
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Designer
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Thanks guys!
Markov Spiked Chain has it exactly right about level 1 shamans; if you don't have a spirit with a particularly useful 1st-level power, you're more-or-less a cleric with no channel or domain powers at 1st level (and even with a more solid spirit power like life, you're still a cleric without domain powers), and Shardra is a lore shaman, so that's her situation. A lore shaman at 1st is just going to worse than a nearly-identical cleric (or oracle, or druid, etc). The MAD of using all three mental ability scores once she hits higher levels makes matters worse, as it leaves little room for Strength and Dexterity. However, once a shaman hits 2 and starts digging into hexes, they're quite effective, so the level 4 and 7 versions work out well. I don't recommend Shardra at 1st level for that reason, unless you're looking for a bigger challenge.
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She's pretty solid at 4 too. Evil Eye, Misfortune, Chant and Channel do a lot of work. Misfortune+Chant, if it lands, shuts down a lot of single target fights.
Shaman are rough at 1 with no hexes. :(
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Designer
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** spoiler omitted **She's pretty solid at 4 too. Evil Eye, Misfortune, Chant and Channel do a lot of work. Misfortune+Chant, if it lands, shuts down a lot of single target fights.
Shaman are rough at 1 with no hexes. :(
Yep, I had originally statted her with 10 Dex to make better use of that crossbow (not that +0 is great, but it's a little better), but that required 7 Strength to pull off, and pregens don't dump to 7 in point buy (oops!).
The builds are interesting and overall much better than CRB pre-gens.
One small nitpick is that almost all of the characters have shockingly low Armor Classes at Level 7(18-21 range for many of them). This can easily lead to them being shredded in a 8-9 or 10-11 adventure.
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The builds are interesting and overall much better than CRB pre-gens.
One small nitpick is that almost all of the characters have shockingly low Armor Classes at Level 7(18-21 range for many of them). This can easily lead to them being shredded in a 8-9 or 10-11 adventure.
Seems like normal AC to me.
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The builds are interesting and overall much better than CRB pre-gens.
One small nitpick is that almost all of the characters have shockingly low Armor Classes at Level 7(18-21 range for many of them). This can easily lead to them being shredded in a 8-9 or 10-11 adventure.Seems like normal AC to me.
Not really. It's ok for ranged characters and casters, but at that level melee types need AC in the mid 20's before buffs unless the have crazy dr or miss chances.
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Not really. It's ok for ranged characters and casters, but at that level melee types need AC in the mid 20's before buffs unless the have crazy dr or miss chances.The builds are interesting and overall much better than CRB pre-gens.
One small nitpick is that almost all of the characters have shockingly low Armor Classes at Level 7(18-21 range for many of them). This can easily lead to them being shredded in a 8-9 or 10-11 adventure.Seems like normal AC to me.
I think there are a variety of ways to build interesting and effective characters. Having an AC >22 at level 7 when a melee character is not "needed".
Although I do find I place a significantly lower value on AC than the average player. Between my over 200 levels of 38 PFS character I own very few rings of protection/amulets of natural armor and very few armors greater than +1.
I like to think my characters aren't ill-prepared for the rigors of combat at their level, despite some of them being melee fighters without the benefit of miss chances, or crazy DR while having "shockingly low armor classes."
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The reality of combat comes down to mathematics. Many of these pre-gens will not be able to survive being on the front line due to poor defenses.
Being really easy to hit means being vulnerable to critical hits, grappling and special attacks that come along as a rider effect of being tagged like poison, energy drain or disease.
A Mummy which is only CR 5 already has a 75-80% chance of hitting many of the level 7 pre-gens. This will force a saving throw which they must make or they will suffer a nasty curse. A level appropriate encounter like a Dire, Tiger or Remorhaz is extremely likely to leave the character dead to near automatic hit and grapple effects.
Possible solutions:
• have the Druid cast Barkskin
• have the Bard cast Haste
• have the Gunslinger draw hate
• have the Wizard cast Glitterdust
• have the Cleric cast Shield of FaithBecause, luckily, the Pregen isn't alone.
Relying on other characters to save you because your build is so bad is not the right answer. Build your character properly to start with or understand that your character should not be in the front line.
I doubt anyone would argue that building a Wizard with an INT of 14 is a great build decision.
Just a thought.
It gets one moderately dangerous bite attack.
Crit! Roll a new character.
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Crowe has AC 18 but he is a bloodrager and barbarians traditionally have lower AC which they make up for with more hit points. Crowe can also use some of his spells. If he uses shield and protection from evil his AC jumps to a respectable 24. He also has mirror image as an option for non-AC defenses.
Adowyn's wolf Leryn has a poor AC to start with at 19 but she has the equipment to easily boost it to a pretty good number at 27. (Potion of mage armor + barkskin).
Oloch's AC of 21 is unimpressive but like the others, that is misleading. Shield of faith will boost it to a respectable 24 (swift action with fervor) or he can use sacred armor to boost it to 22 (25 with shield of faith) and he has dazzling display to reduce enemy attack bonuses and deadly juggernaut which offers the option of DR.
Zadim's AC of 20 is a significant weakness so if you are playing him, you have to realize he's not a tank, but is better suited to moving through enemy lines and slaughtering spellcasters, etc with step up and strike, etc.
Jirielle's AC of 26 is pretty respectable right off the bat and she has opportune parry and riposte, dodging panache, menacing swordplay, and targeted strike which offer additional defensive options.
Kess's AC of 21 is a weakness but she has a number of tricks that can mitigate it whether it is using martial flexibility to gain dodge or combat expertise or improved trip or grappling foes (like she is set up for by default). Limiting her opponents attack options is also an effective form of defense.
Hakon has some defensive problems at level 7 with an AC of 19 but he does have mirror image and could use spell kenning for displacement if he needs to.
Of all those front line characters, I would only characterize Zadim and Hakon as having serious defensive limitations.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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It gets one moderately dangerous bite attack.Crit! Roll a new character.Average damage 40. Maximum damage 54.
A max damage crit kills none of the core pregens and in fact only renders Seoni unconscious.
Its not its bite. Its the 2d6+9 plus 8d6 fire, from swallow whole. 18 damage from the bite first round, then second round swallow whole for an average of 39. Thats 57 in two round.
There is also discussion that is should deal its heat damage when it grabs you. If a GM decides to play it like that it becomes very dangerous as it ads another 24 damage on the first round. And a lot of GMs rule that it does since youre touching it when you are grabbed.Adding the extra 24 damage in the first round makes it much more likely that you go unconcious from the swallow whole. And if you cant cut yourself out then its pretty much bye bye character. There is no saving against the damage.
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I've managed to swallow a couple of PC's while running PFS. The most common occurrence is; PC runs up to hit big nasty thing and provokes, Big Nasty takes AoO and bites and successfully grabs, Big Nasty is up next and maintains and swallows. Granted, it's still pretty rare. It did have the hilarious side effect of making someone playing Crowe worry when he realized that Crowe didn't have a light weapon to attack while swallowed, he always made sure to at least have a dagger after that.
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Not really. It's ok for ranged characters and casters, but at that level melee types need AC in the mid 20's before buffs unless the have crazy dr or miss chances.The builds are interesting and overall much better than CRB pre-gens.
One small nitpick is that almost all of the characters have shockingly low Armor Classes at Level 7(18-21 range for many of them). This can easily lead to them being shredded in a 8-9 or 10-11 adventure.Seems like normal AC to me.
I think there are a variety of ways to build interesting and effective characters. Having an AC >22 at level 7 when a melee character is not "needed".
Although I do find I place a significantly lower value on AC than the average player. Between my over 200 levels of 38 PFS character I own very few rings of protection/amulets of natural armor and very few armors greater than +1.
I like to think my characters aren't ill-prepared for the rigors of combat at their level, despite some of them being melee fighters without the benefit of miss chances, or crazy DR while having "shockingly low armor classes."
You must have been very luck then. I just ran a 5-9 scenario played in low tier that shredded the 7th level Oloch pregen. A 21 AC does not cut it at that level unless you someone manage to always avoid full attacks.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I've decided that if someone playing a pregen finds out that he doesn't have a dagger or anything else he can use while grappled/swallowed, and still has 2GP, he can retroactively buy it. Because that's just too silly. You shouldn't have to go through an equipment checklist while playing a pregen just to make sure you have basic necessities like a dagger to cut your dinner with.