Please Tell Me You Can't Ranged Grapple


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Grapples thread through the internet.... And spanks it.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Also, remember that what wraithstrike and I were arguing about most recently is the Hamatula Strike Feat, which had the prerequisite of a +7 BAB. A level 1 Commoner can't have HS.

You completely misread what I wrote if that is what you thought. If I mentioned that feat I was telling you to disregard it for the purpose of my question.

I was never arguing about that ability.


wraithstrike wrote:
What we thought you were saying was that even if your limbs could not reach someone, and you had no other way to do get to someone such as spells, grappling arrows, etc etc that you could grapple them anyway.

So, my answer to that question is that Grappling is a kind of attack, and to Attack someone, you need some kind of Reach or Range.

I'm really pretty sure that the Rules as Written will indicate that, though I must say I always just assumed that the rules specified that you had to have reach or range to attack someone.

I guess we were talking past each other.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
What we thought you were saying was that even if your limbs could not reach someone, and you had no other way to do get to someone such as spells, grappling arrows, etc etc that you could grapple them anyway.

So, my answer to that question is that Grappling is a kind of attack, and to Attack someone, you need some kind of Reach or Range.

I'm really pretty sure that the Rules as Written will indicate that, though I must say I always just assumed that the rules specified that you had to have reach or range to attack someone.

I guess we were talking past each other.

I agree.


SanKeshun wrote:
To preemptively address needing a weapon with the right properties as well, unarmed strike has no weapon properties besides nonlethal, and yet it can perform every combat maneuver. By default, you perform all combat maneuvers without a weapon. You need the special property only if you're trying to use a weapon, which is the more specific rule.

This is wrong. You don't need any special property to perform a combat maneuver.

Per the FAQ


The_Tarrasque wrote:
SanKeshun wrote:
To preemptively address needing a weapon with the right properties as well, unarmed strike has no weapon properties besides nonlethal, and yet it can perform every combat maneuver. By default, you perform all combat maneuvers without a weapon. You need the special property only if you're trying to use a weapon, which is the more specific rule.

This is wrong. You don't need any special property to perform a combat maneuver.

Per the FAQ

Ah, well in that case you can make a grapple check with any ranged weapon since it is a type of attack. That's a little problematic.

Scarab Sages

Ridiculon wrote:
The_Tarrasque wrote:
SanKeshun wrote:
To preemptively address needing a weapon with the right properties as well, unarmed strike has no weapon properties besides nonlethal, and yet it can perform every combat maneuver. By default, you perform all combat maneuvers without a weapon. You need the special property only if you're trying to use a weapon, which is the more specific rule.

This is wrong. You don't need any special property to perform a combat maneuver.

Per the FAQ

Ah, well in that case you can make a grapple check with any ranged weapon since it is a type of attack. That's a little problematic.

No you can't. The FAQ applies to weapon based manuevers. Trip, Disarm, and Sunder. Grapple is not a weapon based manuever, and you never make a grapple check with a weapon. The grapple property doesn't even allow to use the weapon to grapple, it allows you to make a limited free action grapple check if you score a critical hit. But the weapon's enhancement bonus would not apply.


Where are the "weapon based maneuvers" defined? as far as i can tell they are all just combat maneuvers and all follow the same rules. The "weapon" you use for combat maneuvers is your unarmed strike by default, which is a light weapon.

EDIT: again, not trying to be an ass or combative, im seriously asking in case i missed something

Scarab Sages

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The Paizo blog entry the FAQ was based on.


Imbicatus wrote:

The Paizo blog entry the FAQ was based on.

Hooboy. First, thank you Imbicatus. Second, this throws all the points i made about grappling earlier in the thread right out the window.

according to this:

Sean K. Reynolds wrote:

Page 199 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook says, “When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.” That last sentence implies that some weapons apply their bonuses on combat maneuver checks, and some do not. So how do you know which weapons do? The answer depends on what kind of combat maneuver you’re attempting, and in some cases what kind of weapon you’re using.

Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

Grapple maneuvers don't require a weapon to perform. In which case there really is a big problem here. If you aren't using your Unarmed Strike (aka hands/feet/body) or any other weapon to perform the maneuver with, then what the heck are you using? Grapple, by being a Combat Maneuver, is also an attack. What kind of attack can you make that dosen't use Weapons? That leaves Touch Attacks right? But Grapples roll against CMD, so how does that work?

I'd say this really does need to be FAQ'd now, there does not seem to be a mechanic by which you can perform a grapple (within the rules anyway, obviously a normal person uses their body bits). And on the flipside of that, if you aren't using your Unarmed Strike to grapple there doesn't seem to be any mechanic limiting the range of grapple maneuvers, which was the point of the OP.

Scarab Sages

Grapple is a manuever where you aren't using a weapon at all. You are using your body to grab and hold on to the target of your manuever, but you aren't using a fist, kick or head butt to strike the opponent, which is what an unarmed strike is. The "weapon" for a grapple check is a grapple, and for the purposes of weapon focus, grapple is a separate weapon from unarmed strike.


That's reasonable, exactly the way I would deal with this. But it isn't defined in the rules which means the issue is open to abuse. That's why I think it would be a good idea to make an FAQ about it.

EDIT: well, thats exactly the way i'd handle it with the addition of "weapon: grapple, melee".

Grand Lodge

Ranged Grapple:

PRD wrote:

Telekinesis

School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target or Targets see text
Duration concentration (up to 1 round/level) or instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (object) or none; see text; Spell Resistance yes (object); see text
<snip>
Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you add your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.</snip>

So it can be done.

Scarab Sages

Ridiculon wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

The Paizo blog entry the FAQ was based on.

Hooboy. First, thank you Imbicatus. Second, this throws all the points i made about grappling earlier in the thread right out the window.

according to this:

Sean K. Reynolds wrote:

Page 199 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook says, “When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.” That last sentence implies that some weapons apply their bonuses on combat maneuver checks, and some do not. So how do you know which weapons do? The answer depends on what kind of combat maneuver you’re attempting, and in some cases what kind of weapon you’re using.

Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

Grapple maneuvers don't require a weapon to perform. In which case there really is a big problem here. If you aren't using your Unarmed Strike (aka hands/feet/body) or any other weapon to perform the maneuver with, then what the heck are you using? Grapple, by being a Combat Maneuver, is also an attack. What kind of attack can you make that dosen't use Weapons? That leaves Touch Attacks right? But Grapples roll against CMD, so how does that work?

I'd say this really does need to be FAQ'd now, there does not seem to be a mechanic by which you can perform a grapple (within the rules anyway, obviously a normal person uses their body bits). And on the flipside of that, if you aren't using your Unarmed...

You use both your hands to grapple(or natural weapon if you have grab). This is part of the description for grappling. You can use one hand at a penalty. But, while grappled, this occupies your hands. Though, there is an ability where you use your legs for grappling. I really need to find that again...

Either way, the point is the thing you are calling an issue is already handled. You use your hands, thus your hands are occupied. Which prevents you from using those hands to make unarmed strikes.

"Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds."


Lorewalker wrote:

You use both your hands to grapple(or natural weapon if you have grab). This is part of the description for grappling. You can use one hand at a penalty. But, while grappled, this occupies your hands. Though, there is an ability where you use your legs for grappling. I really need to find that again...

Either way, the point is the thing you are calling an issue is already handled. You use your hands, thus your hands are occupied. Which prevents you from using those hands to make unarmed strikes.
"Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds."

Huh, not sure how so many people missed that, good catch. Although I'd say that you could grapple someone with your legs by default, since it says you only take a penalty for your hands being otherwise occupied.


You have the archer tricks in the Fighter Archer Archtype that allow you to grapple a opponent with a arrow, however it goes against a break DC to break free from the grapple.

Trick Shot (Ex) wrote:


At 11th level, he may also choose from the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, grapple, trip. A target grappled by an arrow can break free by destroying the archer’s arrow (hardness 5, hit points 1, break DC 13) or with an Escape Artist or CMB check (against the archer’s CMD –4).

Scarab Sages

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Dracoknight wrote:

You have the archer tricks in the Fighter Archer Archtype that allow you to grapple a opponent with a arrow, however it goes against a break DC to break free from the grapple.

Trick Shot (Ex) wrote:


At 11th level, he may also choose from the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, grapple, trip. A target grappled by an arrow can break free by destroying the archer’s arrow (hardness 5, hit points 1, break DC 13) or with an Escape Artist or CMB check (against the archer’s CMD –4).

"And that was the day ole' Shamus started using durable adamantine arrows. He never looked back"


Ridiculon wrote:
And on the flipside of that, if you aren't using your Unarmed Strike to grapple there doesn't seem to be any mechanic limiting the range of grapple maneuvers, which was the point of the OP.

Sure there is.

Remember a Grapple is a Combat Maneuver,

Combat Maneuvers wrote:
During combat, you can attempt to perform a number of maneuvers that can hinder or even cripple your foe, including bull rush, disarm, grapple,

A Combat Maneuver is an Attack: when you make a Combat Maneuver, you make an Attack Roll.

Combat Maneuver wrote:
attack roll to perform the maneuver.

You can only make melee attacks into squares you threaten. And generally, you only threaten adjacent squares.

Threatened Squares wrote:
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally).

Can you make a Ranged Grapple? There are methods, weapons, Feats, Spells, and Class Abilities that allow you to Grapple at Range, but a Grapple Combat Maneuver is not a Ranged Weapon. Humans do not have any Natural Ranged capabilities, unless you think mass producing AK-47s and ICBMs is natural. You could argue that, but even if you were to, you don't normally make Grappling attacks with your ICBM, per the FAQ linked to by The_Tarrasque.

FAQ wrote:
maneuvers, either you’re not using a weapon at all, or the weapon is incidental to making the maneuver

It's implicit, but unambiguous, that you can't just Grapple somebody you can't touch.

Speaking as someone who often seeks to do outrageous things with character builds, I always feel the burden of proof is upon me to comprehensively demonstrate that what I am doing is technically correct: the best kind of correct. I would never attempt to do something like this without a great deal of evidence, or a small amount of very decisive evidence. Drawing unintended benefits from the Rules as Written is an art.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Ridiculon wrote:
And on the flipside of that, if you aren't using your Unarmed Strike to grapple there doesn't seem to be any mechanic limiting the range of grapple maneuvers, which was the point of the OP.

Sure there is.

Remember a Grapple is a Combat Maneuver,

Combat Maneuvers wrote:
During combat, you can attempt to perform a number of maneuvers that can hinder or even cripple your foe, including bull rush, disarm, grapple,

A Combat Maneuver is an Attack: when you make a Combat Maneuver, you make an Attack Roll.

Combat Maneuver wrote:
attack roll to perform the maneuver.

There are two types of attack roll, ranged and melee. The point of the OP (and my own subsequent posts) was that the rules for Combat Maneuvers (and grappling) never actually specify which attack roll is used, they only say "make an attack roll and add your CMB".

However, Lorewalker has helpfully pointed out that the grapple rules specifically include a negative mod for not having free hands, which heavily implies that it is your hands (or appropriate species equivalent) that are doing the grappling, which nails grappling to the range of your natural reach.

Although we should look at the other non-weapon combat maneuvers to check for range limitations there (since none of them are limited by the reach of a weapon).

EDIT:

Bull Rush:
You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack.

Dirty Trick:
You can attempt to hinder a foe in melee as a standard action.

Drag:
this one is not explicitly melee, but the end positioning is only possible if you were originally adjacent If your attack is successful, both you and your target are moved 5 feet back, with your opponent occupying your original space and you in the space behind that in a straight line.

Overrun:
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square.

Reposition:
The target must remain within your reach at all times during this movement, except for the final 5 feet of movement, which can be to a space adjacent to your reach.

Steal:
This maneuver can be used in melee to take any item that is neither held nor hidden in a bag or pack

This seems pretty clear to me, Grappling is the only one that is not explicitly a melee maneuver. Good thing they left that negative modifier for not using two hands.

Scarab Sages

Is no one going to mention the mancatcher? A reach weapon with grapple.

Scarab Sages

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Is no one going to mention the mancatcher? A reach weapon with grapple.

It doesn't actually grapple though. The grapple weapon quality is nigh-useless and it only allows a grapple to move or damage an opponent on a critical hit. You can't iniatie a grapple with it unless you crit first.

Quote:

Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple your opponent as a free action. This grapple attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature you are attempting to grapple if that creature is not threatening you. While you grapple the creature using a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away that the creature you're grappling is no longer within the weapon's reach, you end the grapple with that action.

Scarab Sages

Imbicatus wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Is no one going to mention the mancatcher? A reach weapon with grapple.

It doesn't actually grapple though. The grapple weapon quality is nigh-useless and it only allows a grapple to move or damage an opponent on a critical hit. You can't iniatie a grapple with it unless you crit first.

Quote:

Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple your opponent as a free action. This grapple attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature you are attempting to grapple if that creature is not threatening you. While you grapple the creature using a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away that the creature you're grappling is no longer within the weapon's reach, you end the grapple with that action.

Try reading the description of the mancatcher, it definitely can grapple.

Scarab Sages

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Is no one going to mention the mancatcher? A reach weapon with grapple.

It doesn't actually grapple though. The grapple weapon quality is nigh-useless and it only allows a grapple to move or damage an opponent on a critical hit. You can't iniatie a grapple with it unless you crit first.

Quote:

Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple your opponent as a free action. This grapple attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature you are attempting to grapple if that creature is not threatening you. While you grapple the creature using a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away that the creature you're grappling is no longer within the weapon's reach, you end the grapple with that action.

Try reading the description of the mancatcher, it definitely can grapple.

Eh, not really. It's better than a grapple weapon, but it's an exotic weapon that does 1d2, or you make a touch attack and if that hits you can make a grapple check, and you are still limited to damage or move applications of grapple. It's a terrible weapon for its opportunity cost, and it's a terrible weapon for a grapple specialist as it limits your options.


Ridiculon wrote:

Where are the "weapon based maneuvers" defined? as far as i can tell they are all just combat maneuvers and all follow the same rules. The "weapon" you use for combat maneuvers is your unarmed strike by default, which is a light weapon.

EDIT: again, not trying to be an ass or combative, im seriously asking in case i missed something

That is not true at all. You use certain limbs which can reasonable grab someone such as your hands. For some monsters these limbs also double as weapons, such as bites, and tentacles.


Herald wrote:

Ranged Grapple:

PRD wrote:

Telekinesis

School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target or Targets see text
Duration concentration (up to 1 round/level) or instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (object) or none; see text; Spell Resistance yes (object); see text
<snip>
Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you add your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.</snip>
So it can be done.

Rules Form rule #1:

When people say ____ can't be done they are assuming no feats, spells, class abilities, and so on are giving you an exception to the normal rules.

As an example if I say humans can't fly in Pathfinder, it is assuming magic, wings, nor anything else is in play.


wraithstrike wrote:
Ridiculon wrote:

Where are the "weapon based maneuvers" defined? as far as i can tell they are all just combat maneuvers and all follow the same rules. The "weapon" you use for combat maneuvers is your unarmed strike by default, which is a light weapon.

EDIT: again, not trying to be an ass or combative, im seriously asking in case i missed something

That is not true at all. You use certain limbs which can reasonable grab someone such as your hands. For some monsters these limbs also double as weapons, such as bites, and tentacles.

I was asking for the actual rule or developer statement that defined that to be true (which Lorewalker provided). Did you not read any of the other posts after that one?

And since it gives you a negative for not using two (metaphorical) hands the argument could still be made that you don't need any hands to grapple with. I don't think any reasonable GM is going to stand for it but it's a definite loophole that the other combat maneuvers don't seem to have.


it's not a hypothetical, snakes CAN grapple and some can constrict. They have no hands and do not take a negative, and yes a special case. A humanoid with no arms will get a penalty to CMB.

I'd also remind people that combat is 3 dimensional - so there is adjacent space above the creature(check STR score)(especially if combatants are using the fly spell, then there's below too), so plenty of room for WWF combat style.

You can grapple at range (with reach) and then pull the creature next to you (see above text). Long arm spell 1st ACG. So well within the grasp of most via a magic item.

to complicate it a bit, the monster rules have Grab that expands on grapples.

Bestiary & Bestiary2 wrote:

Grab (Ex)

If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal{Bestiary 2} to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.

Format: grab; Location: individual attacks and special attacks.

and on a humorous note, people can fly, unsuccessfully, it's called falling.


constricting snakes have the Grab special ability, we're just talking about the base combat maneuver Grapple


Fans of WWF Wrestling in the 80's will remember the figure-four leg lock, which is a grapple without hands, as I recall.

Unless you think that your legs are "metaphorical" hands.

Just throwing that out there.


The metaphorical hands are the measure of effort you can put out in a turn. That means that whatever action you do has to equate to some number of 'hands' of effort.

However, the part of the grapple rule that says "Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition." seems to be a rules-legal way around that.

Again, I don't think a GM who is paying even the slightest bit of attention to what is going on will allow someone with 'full hands' to grapple, I'm just saying it seems to be legal by the rules alone.

Silver Crusade

Easy ranged grapple: Barbed Arrow/Bolt. 30' range increment AND your weapon gains the grapple special ability!


Quintain wrote:

Fans of WWF Wrestling in the 80's will remember the figure-four leg lock, which is a grapple without hands, as I recall.

Unless you think that your legs are "metaphorical" hands.

Just throwing that out there.

Hands are need to set the move up.

Scarab Sages

Snakes are not humanoid. Only humanoids require hands to grapple without penalty.


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Oh, that too haha. It does specifically call out humanoids needing hands doesn't it?

TIL: Snakes can make ranged grapple checks (along with all the other non-humanoids).


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I can see a native outsider seriously abusing that rule with a literal minded GM.


wraithstrike wrote:
Quintain wrote:

Fans of WWF Wrestling in the 80's will remember the figure-four leg lock, which is a grapple without hands, as I recall.

Unless you think that your legs are "metaphorical" hands.

Just throwing that out there.

Hands are need to set the move up.

Though not to maintain it


Ridiculon wrote:
... However, the part of the grapple rule that says "Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition." ...

In a grapple you can use a light or one handed weapon to do damage to your opponent (on the 2nd round for the initiator/attacker).

CRB wrote:
Damage. You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

A grappled creature can still make a Full Attack or take move actions (but not actually move).

the assumption is that you'd have to pull the weapon out sometime during the grapple (mov actn) to do damage with it (std actn). Draw or sheath are move actions. A Handy Haversack makes it possible as it's a mov actn, retrieve from a backpack is a std actn.

so a clean grapple with no grey area will have the humanoid initiator with 2 free hands.
It would be best to sheath the weapon before starting the grapple as that removes any doubt, you also have the option to drop it.

Cestus or spiked gauntlet are probably the other clearly legal options to have a weapon in hand without springing a CMB penalty to initiate a grapple.

My only question is why is pulling a light or one handed weapon during a grapple okay and carries no penalty to the +5 to continue the grapple, but it does carry a penalty to initiate the grapple. hmm.... sometimes the rules are a bit odd. As a bonus there's no penalty for doing non-lethal.

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