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Additional Resources allows spells from Inner Sea Gods to be cast by anyone, but deity-specific spells from other sources (such as Trudd's Mighty Strength from Dwarves of Golarion, for example) are limited to members of that faith.
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Is this a request? I would love it if spells tied to a religion could only be cast by worshippers of that deity. I personally feel like religion-based restrictions for spells make waaaaaaay more sense than race-based restrictions.
But maybe that's just me.
No, I hear that. Anyone can cast channel vigor, but only elves can get the hang of ward of the season. -_-
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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In the Seanson 8 Guide,
As a general guideline, if a character receives any mechanical benefit connected to a deity, that character must worship the appropriate deity.Does this mean that you can't choose a religion-based spell unless you worship that particular deity?
Since in Inner Sea Gods, it is specified as followed,
Despite this, all the spells in this chapter are available to members of other faiths, though some temples or religious organizations may proscribe the use of specific spells. Additionally, arcane spellcasters have unlocked the secrets of casting particular spells.
As I understand it, this means that in Pathfinder in general, deity-specific spells are open to anyone; whereas in Pathfinder Society the season 8 guide overrides that, limiting them to worshippers only. This is just like how e.g. Brew Potion is a legal feat in Pathfinder in general, but not allowed in PFS.
As I recall, the season 7 guide did not have this restriction, so this would be a rules change. Note that deity-specific spells from books other than ISG have always been restricted to worshippers only.
But the wording is ambiguous enough that you should probably Expect Table Variation on that.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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As I said earlier, if it's not deity-restricted in the first place, then it's not a "mechanical benefit connected to a deity".
"Connected" doesn't mean "restricted". Inner Sea Gods clearly indicates that certain spells are connected to certain deities.
According to the Season 8 Guide, a character needs to worship that deity in order to use that spell in PFS games.
But the wording is ambiguous enough that you should probably Expect Table Variation on that.
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As I said earlier, if it's not deity-restricted in the first place, then it's not a "mechanical benefit connected to a deity"."Connected" doesn't mean "restricted". Inner Sea Gods clearly indicates that certain spells are connected to certain deities.
According to the Season 8 Guide, a character needs to worship that deity in order to use that spell in PFS games.
But the wording is ambiguous enough that you should probably Expect Table Variation on that.
you're assuming that casting the spell is a mechanical benefit related to the deity to show that it's a mechanical effect related to the deity.
If, as the book says, anyone can cast it, then there's no mechanical effect related to that deity, so anyone can cast it.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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My understanding is that BNW is correct. The wording is based on the FAQ and as far as I am aware it applies to class features (like domain), feats, traits, items, etc, but not to spells from the ISG
That said, I am pretty sure the dwarf spells had additional restrictions, that stipulated that they *were* only available to worshipers (and that even if you worshiped the pantheon, which is not legal in PFS, you could still only receive spells specific to one deity at a time.)
So yes, those spells would still be affected by that clause.
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My understanding is that BNW is correct. The wording is based on the FAQ and as far as I am aware it applies to class features (like domain), feats, traits, items, etc, but not to spells from the ISG
That said, I am pretty sure the dwarf spells had additional restrictions, that stipulated that they *were* only available to worshipers (and that even if you worshiped the pantheon, which is not legal in PFS, you could still only receive spells specific to one deity at a time.)
So yes, those spells would still be affected by that clause.
Worship of a pantheon is legal in PFS, as long as you have Faiths and Philosophies, and are not a member of a class that requires worship of a deity.
Which may not affect your larger point, but I wanted to be sure that was clear.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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My understanding is that BNW is correct. The wording is based on the FAQ and as far as I am aware it applies to class features (like domain), feats, traits, items, etc, but not to spells from the ISG
That said, I am pretty sure the dwarf spells had additional restrictions, that stipulated that they *were* only available to worshipers (and that even if you worshiped the pantheon, which is not legal in PFS, you could still only receive spells specific to one deity at a time.)
So yes, those spells would still be affected by that clause.
Worship of a pantheon is legal in PFS, as long as you have Faiths and Philosophies, and are not a member of a class that requires worship of a deity.
Which may not affect your larger point, but I wanted to be sure that was clear.
No, you can *venerate* a pantheon (i.e. receive no mechanical benefit.)
You can only worship a single deity. It is covered in the glossary.
Worship: In this context, worship refers to a
relationship held between a PC and a deity where the
PC, in exchange for his dedicated worship, gains a
mechanical benefit (e.g. a cleric’s spells and abilities, a
deity-specific feat or trait, special functions of magical
weapons, or prerequisites for a prestige class). PCs may
only worship one campaign-legal deity and must always
be within one step of their chosen deity’s alignment. See
page 24 for more rules on worshiping a deity and how to
change the deity a PC worships.Venerate: Venerate refers to the relationship between
a PC and a specific deity, pantheon, or philosophy of
some sort where the PC follows the cause but gains
no specific mechanical reward as a result of doing so.
Player characters are able to venerate any Golarion specific
deity, pantheon, or philosophy they wish without
alignment concern.
Contributor
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I thought you still had to pick one for mechanical stuff?
Worship of a pantheon is legal in PFS, as long as you have Faiths and Philosophies, and are not a member of a class that requires worship of a deity.Which may not affect your larger point, but I wanted to be sure that was clear.
I think that only applies if you have any mechanical stuff. If you don't, you can go ahead and venerate whatever you darn well please. ^_^
That said, pantheism does count as worship, as there is a feat (Pantheistic Blessing) that requires it. The way it looks to me, worshiping a pantheon is mechanically separate from worshiping a single deity, even a member of that pantheon; thus, even if you worshiped the dwarven pantheon, you couldn't take the Alluring trait, as you worship the pantheon, not Bolka herself.
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Contributor
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The following feat is PFS-legal (note the prerequisite):
Pantheistic Blessing
You are grated a small bit of divine power as a result of your veneration of a pantheon of deities.
Prerequisites: Wis 13, must worship a pantheon of deities.
Benefit: When taking this feat, select a pantheon from the list below. You gain the listed spell-like ability for your selected pantheon, usable once per day. If the granted spell allows a saving throw, the DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier.
Special: If you act out of line with the tenets of your pantheon's beliefs, you lose the ability to cast the granted spell-like ability until you have received an atonement for transgression (as a cleric restoring lost class abilities).
In addition, the AR has the following to say:
Pantheons: all pantheons on page 21 are legal for play except demon lords;
I'm pretty sure a pantheon is legal for worship, albeit with the restriction noted in my previous post (no benefits from specific members). ^_^
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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There are a couple of feats that are legal, but have illegal worship prereqs.
For example Dreamed Secrets.
I am not sure what we are supposed to do about them. I have always assumed that the plan was to have a chronicle that would open up worship to them in some limited way.
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Contributor
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Maybe. I think it's far more likely that they intended for people who pick a pantheon to have access to that feat; it's not nearly as blatant an omission as the clearly illegal deities that Dreamed Secrets requires.
Let me ask you this: what does the Additional Resources text I quoted signify? They wouldn't need to make them "legal for play" if they didn't do anything.
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There doesn't need to be a contradiction there.
You worship the pantheon.
By pfs rules when you worship a pantheon you're considered to be worshiping one deity within it for other mechanical stuff.
So you can worship dwarven pantheon take that feat and take the Torag "not surprised in combat" trait, but not take the Torag trait and something related to another dwarven deity.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Maybe. I think it's far more likely that they intended for people who pick a pantheon to have access to that feat; it's not nearly as blatant an omission as the clearly illegal deities that Dreamed Secrets requires.
Let me ask you this: what does the Additional Resources text I quoted signify? They wouldn't need to make them "legal for play" if they didn't do anything.
I am honestly not sure. I don't know if that is an outdated AR from before they said you must chose one, or if it is like the Aroden stuff and that it is an exception to the normal rules, or what. All I know it that every post I have seen from Mike Brock on said you had to pick one deity.
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Contributor
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I'm guessing exception with a side of outdated; nobody cares enough about Faiths and Philosophies to really make a big deal about it. ^_^
In any case, I think that that's currently the only feat/trait/option that cares about pantheons, and I doubt anyone's busting down the door to get at it. So... not worth worrying too much about, at least at the moment.
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There doesn't need to be a contradiction there.
You worship the pantheon.
By pfs rules when you worship a pantheon you're considered to be worshiping one deity within it for other mechanical stuff.
So you can worship dwarven pantheon take that feat and take the Torag "not surprised in combat" trait, but not take the Torag trait and something related to another dwarven deity.
Exactly this.
You can worship a pantheon, but (in PFS) you also have to pick a single deity in that pantheon that you worship the mostest.For most purposes, this is identical to worshipping the single deity, but it also opens up the very few things that are tied to worshipping a pantheon.
All of this with the proviso that in PFS a Cleric, Inquisitor, etc cannot worship a pantheon.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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In general, PCs have to chose one deity for worship. This is especially true for divine classes that must chose a deity (cleric, paladin, etc.)
If your PC is not a class restricted to single-deity worship, you can chose to worship a pantheon as per Faiths and Philosophies or Inner Sea Gods. I think Kalindlara has it right that worshiping a pantheon is distinct from worshiping a deity included in that pantheon. Though, you may still venerate the other if you worship one.
I don't think the Guide is particularly clear, but I do consider the AR as more specific and controlling.
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I guess the tricky part is what "mechanical benefit connected to a deity" means. The context doesn't include spells, but it's unclear whether spells are really not included, or the guide just simply omit them since there might be more stuff "connected to a deity" :)
Which brings us back to the original point. It depends on the book. Some books say that you must worship a particular deity to use their spells from that book. Inner Sea Gods says that anyone can cast those spells. Specific trumps general. ISG spells are castable by anyone.
