Skalds and the Talented trait


Rules Questions


The skald's versatile performance feature is limited to performance skills "associated with the class." These are the same, limited, performance skills that the Skald has on her class skill list. I.e. an associated skill is one on the class skill list.

The Talented trait, explicitly adds all performance skills to your class skill list.

Is there any reason why a skald with the trait: Talented could not take any of the previously missing performances, such as dance or comedy, for her versatile performance choice?


Versatile does not call out the skald class skill list, it just so happens that the choices for versatile performance match the skill list. Changing one should not affect the other.


I feel confident that it goes against intent and pretty sure that it goes against the text. The trait just makes those skills count as class skills. There aren't even any rules for what bonuses you'd get from skills outside of what's listed in the skald ability.


Java Man wrote:
Versatile does not call out the skald class skill list, it just so happens that the choices for versatile performance match the skill list. Changing one should not affect the other.

You're probably right, but it's hardly a coincidence the class skill performances "just so happen" to match up.

Melkiador wrote:
I feel confident that it goes against intent and pretty sure that it goes against the text. The trait just makes those skills count as class skills. There aren't even any rules for what bonuses you'd get from skills outside of what's listed in the skald ability.

Intent of the class or the trait? Regardless, I wasn't asking for intent. It's also pretty clear that it would use the performances associated with its parent class's, the bard's, versatile performance.

It's more a question of: are skills associated with a class the same thing as class skills. Java Man's statement about missing the actual phrase "class skill" seems reasonable but if that were the case why wouldn't they just have saved space and eliminated any ambiguity by phrasing it more succinctly?


Vratix wrote:
It's also pretty clear that it would use the performances associated with its parent class's, the bard's, versatile performance.

Not really. The ability never says something along the lines of "this works like the bard ability of the same name". It's a similar ability with a same name, but it's not exactly the same and so you can't use an unreferenced source to try to extrapolate what this ability can do.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one archetype which expanded the Skald's versatile performance options. That said, any such general expansion would fall under GM fiat. So... ask your GM.


Melkiador wrote:
Vratix wrote:
It's also pretty clear that it would use the performances associated with its parent class's, the bard's, versatile performance.
Not really. The ability never says something along the lines of "this works like the bard ability of the same name". It's a similar ability with a same name, but it's not exactly the same and so you can't use an unreferenced source to try to extrapolate what this ability can do.

You're right, it doesn't have that explicit wording even though bards are mentioned almost a dozen times on the skald page and the abilities are identical in all ways but breadth of choice.

I'll just have to file this idea away into the "completely reasonable, but not allowed" category. I do hate when splitting hairs ruins ideas, especially ones that won't impact balance in the slightest.


The thing is that the skald was explicitly limited to a subset of instrument types for a reason. It should take more than an unfocused trait to sidestep that.

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