The More Obscure Uses of Attacks of Opportunity


Rules Questions


So I recently found this thread, and was sufficiently amused to begin building such a character.

The important point from the thread is that, with the right combination of feats, anyone attacking you while you're prone will provoke an attack of opportunity from you (it's a little sketchy on the rules front, but if you're playing for RAW amusement, then it works).

Now, the Core Rulebook says: An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).

This seems slightly ambiguous, and I wanted a second opinion. If I make an Attack of Opportunity when someone else has attacked me while prone, does their attack finish afterwards? Or have I also negated their attack? I'm inclined to say the first, but am also hopeful it would be the second, so I thought I would ask.

The FAQ does not address the question.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Your attack of opportunity does not negate the attack that provoked it unless you render the original attacker incapable of carrying out that attack -- for example, if you reduce him below zero hit points or push him away so that he can no longer reach you.


You only interrupt the normal flow of actions. You do not interrupt and negate any actions.


An AoO or any Immediate Action would only negate the attack if the result of the AoO or Immediate Action made the attack impossible (killing the attacker, countering the attack, forcing the attack to miss, etc)


Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?


Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?

I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.


SanKeshun wrote:
The important point from the thread is that, with the right combination of feats, anyone attacking you while you're prone will provoke an attack of opportunity from you (it's a little sketchy on the rules front, but if you're playing for RAW amusement, then it works).

If you are worried about this being sketchy on the rules front, I have a solution. Take a few levels in Fighter with the Eldritch Guardian Archetype, and get yourself a Mauler Familiar.

Your Familiar will automatically know all the Combat Feats you know, so if either of you fall prone, you will support each other with Attacks of Opportunity, especially if you also take Paired Opportunist, another Combat Feat.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.

In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
fearcypher wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.
In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?

If you disarm someone it would stop the attack, not switch to another one.


If you disarm them during their attack, but they are still within reach to attack you unarmed, I would say that they still continue their attack unarmed, because they are still capable of completing their original action to attack.

If however, you disarm someone swinging a polearm at you and they are out of reach, attack would be negated.


So some are saying that if one were to be attacking with a weapon, say, a crossbow, and they were to be disarmed, they would continue to attack with an entirely different weapon?

That's the most nonsensical thing I've read today. How can you continue an action (i'e' unarmed attack) that was never started?


I wouldn't let them change the attack action, which is what they started.

AoO's happen right before the action that triggered them, but that action is not "Shoot a Crossbow" it is "Make a Ranged Attack".

If they had a ranged weapon that would be legal, they could continue their attack.

Same as melee attack, so long as they were in reach, they could continue.


Attacking with a long sword is not the same action as attacking with a short sword even though they both use the "Attack" action. The outcome is wholly different; the two cannot be equivocated.

It's no different than moving 30' to the left or moving 30' to the right. You wouldn't let a character finish their "Move" action by making an entirely different 'move'.

Also, there is no "Make a Ranged Attack" action. It's just "Attack". Arguably it's: "Attack (melee)", "Attack (ranged)", and "Attack (unarmed)". In which case not only is an unarmed attack not the same action as a melee attack, it's not even the same type of action.


fearcypher wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.
In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?

Well, I would say yes.


Rysky wrote:
fearcypher wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.
In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?
If you disarm someone it would stop the attack, not switch to another one.

It seems problematic that the attack would unhappen. There was supposed to be an attack that triggered the AoO in the first place, and if Disarming stops the attack, doesn't that make it a little OP and time-travelly?

Now that you mention it, though, I'm not certain how the RAW plays out in this situation. Are you? Can you cite the rules?


If an AoO or readied action renders the triggering action impossible to complete, it is negated. The interrupted action can't be swapped out for another action (even if it's similar), so no switching to an unarmed strike if your sword is disarmed.

Quote:
Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

It seems problematic that the attack would unhappen. There was supposed to be an attack that triggered the AoO in the first place, and if Disarming stops the attack, doesn't that make it a little OP and time-travelly?

The attack isn't "unhappening", the attack was started and then interrupted and summarily negated, during the attack, before the blow was struck. It's not "OP", and definitely in no way "time-travelly".

That said, why is this even being argued? A person lunging past someone else with a rapier, who suddenly no longer has a rapier because the person he lunged past disarmed him doesn't suddenly get some other weapon in his hand to attack with. And I guarantee you that (barring someone from an anime like DBZ where all the fights are actually happening faster than the normal human eye can perceive in the later episodes) no person is going to be able to change that thrusting motion, with their arm jerked to the side as the blade is ripped from their hand, into a fricking punch.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Byakko wrote:

If an AoO or readied action renders the triggering action impossible to complete, it is negated. The interrupted action can't be swapped out for another action (even if it's similar), so no switching to an unarmed strike if your sword is disarmed.

Quote:
Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.

That seems convincing.


You have to keep in mind that every round is 6 seconds, and attacks and movements aren't just a slash or a step, but a more complicated set of jestures that end up in a particular result. Triggering an AoO means you are trying to attempt something complicated that requires your attention so much that you open up your guard while trying to perform it. Hence the AoO happens before the result of the action, not actually the action itself.

If a character takes a "move" action triggering AoO, and she gets tripped, the movement is negated, and the character is prone in the square she was trying to leave when she triggered the AoO.
Similarly I'd say: a character that "attacks" with a weapon and is disarmed by an AoO loses her action.


SanKeshun wrote:

So I recently found this thread, and was sufficiently amused to begin building such a character.

The important point from the thread is that, with the right combination of feats, anyone attacking you while you're prone will provoke an attack of opportunity from you (it's a little sketchy on the rules front, but if you're playing for RAW amusement, then it works).

Now, the Core Rulebook says: An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).

This seems slightly ambiguous, and I wanted a second opinion. If I make an Attack of Opportunity when someone else has attacked me while prone, does their attack finish afterwards? Or have I also negated their attack? I'm inclined to say the first, but am also hopeful it would be the second, so I thought I would ask.

The FAQ does not address the question.

If you stand up while prone then the attacker gets to hit your AC -4 for prone then you continue the rest of your turn.

I got questions that need to be answered and would like some help. It is about unchained rouge 15 stealth with a bow, uncanny dodge, and invisibility + stealth.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ttuw?Rogues-Edge-15-Stealth-with-Bow-and-vs#1


fearcypher wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.
In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?

If you used a vorpal weapon to disarm them again, you would win, hands down. :-)

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
fearcypher wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Artifix wrote:
Can't you use AoO to make Combat Manuevers? If so could you disarm the opponent?
I guess that would mean that the incoming attack would suddenly be an unarmed attack.
In which case, if the opponent doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike would they provoke a second Attack of Opportunity?

If you used a vorpal weapon to disarm them again, you would win, hands down. :-)

/cevah

...

Well punned, sir.

_ \_(ツ)_/ _

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / The More Obscure Uses of Attacks of Opportunity All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.