Scrolls with Metamagic


Rules Questions


So I am making a Magus with the Magus Arcana Spell-Scars. I would like to modify the fireballs I can have tattooed thus I would like to have the scars have metamagic on them which brings up questions.

Can I add metamagic to Scrolls/Spell-Scars?
If I can add metamagic can I use Spell Perfection and Magical Lineage to let me have 6 Echoing Elemental Fireballs?

Keep in mind there is an 18 total level maximum on amount of Spell-Scars you can put on.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Artifix wrote:

So I am making a Magus with the Magus Arcana Spell-Scars. I would like to modify the fireballs I can have tattooed thus I would like to have the scars have metamagic on them which brings up questions.

Can I add metamagic to Scrolls/Spell-Scars?

Yes.

Artifix wrote:


If I can add metamagic can I use Spell Perfection and Magical Lineage to let me have 6 Echoing Elemental Fireballs?

Keep in mind there is an 18 total level maximum on amount of Spell-Scars you can put on.

No, neither is a metamagic feat.

Stuff that allow you to reduce the level of the slot used to memorize a spell modified by a metamagic feat don't affect magic items creation.


Well is there a way I can give them Echo or at the very least Elemental without increasing the levels it takes up? Allowing me to use even more Fireballs and make them different type of Elements so that fire immune things cans till be harmed.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Artifix wrote:
Well is there a way I can give them Echo or at the very least Elemental without increasing the levels it takes up? Allowing me to use even more Fireballs and make them different type of Elements so that fire immune things cans till be harmed.

No, AFAIK. You can reduce the cost of metamagics when making scrolls, wands, etc.


Unfortunately, no. I'd have to find the dev comment (It was likely either a James Jacobs or Sean K. Reynolds comment) but the dev consensus is that feats, class features, and so on that affect the level adjustment of metamagic feats do not apply when crafting wands, potion/oils, or scrolls.


Then to help make sure I get the most out of these limited slots, what metamagic would you suggest applying. With this information it would seem to me something like an Persistant Echoing Elemental Fireball.


When it comes to nukes, forget about the saving throw, and try to add damage instead. Half damage will work for you too, if it is as high as possible.

Empower, intensify, maximize and echo spell would be the feats to use for that.
Maximize + empower + intensify = 115 fire, 9th (= 2 uses) - 230 total
Empower + intensify + echo = 77 fire, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 308 total
Intensify + empower + elemental = 77 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 154 total
Maximize + elemental = 60 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 120 total
Empower + elemental = 52 variable, 6th (= 3 uses) - 156 total
Empower + elemental + echo = 52 variable, 9th (2+2 uses) - 208 total

Persistent + echo + elemental = 35 variable, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 140 total

Take your pick :) There are several combinations, depends on what you really want/need. If you want the variable element type you get less damage, but it may come in handy. I am not doing the math, if the saves from persistent would make up for the lesser damage :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Vatras wrote:

When it comes to nukes, forget about the saving throw, and try to add damage instead. Half damage will work for you too, if it is as high as possible.

Empower, intensify, maximize and echo spell would be the feats to use for that.
Maximize + empower + intensify = 115 fire, 9th (= 2 uses) - 230 total
Empower + intensify + echo = 77 fire, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 308 total
Intensify + empower + elemental = 77 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 154 total
Maximize + elemental = 60 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 120 total
Empower + elemental = 52 variable, 6th (= 3 uses) - 156 total
Empower + elemental + echo = 52 variable, 9th (2+2 uses) - 208 total

Persistent + echo + elemental = 35 variable, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 140 total

Take your pick :) There are several combinations, depends on what you really want/need. If you want the variable element type you get less damage, but it may come in handy. I am not doing the math, if the saves from persistent would make up for the lesser damage :)

You need to be 15-7th level to writhe those scrolls. And they are still 3rd level spells that can be defeated by a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability.

Probably you have better options at that point.

Edit:
Actually a magus using spell scar is limited to 6th level spells at level 16.
At most 3 intensified, empowered fireballs.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Vatras wrote:

When it comes to nukes, forget about the saving throw, and try to add damage instead. Half damage will work for you too, if it is as high as possible.

Empower, intensify, maximize and echo spell would be the feats to use for that.
Maximize + empower + intensify = 115 fire, 9th (= 2 uses) - 230 total
Empower + intensify + echo = 77 fire, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 308 total
Intensify + empower + elemental = 77 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 154 total
Maximize + elemental = 60 variable, 7th (= 2 uses) - 120 total
Empower + elemental = 52 variable, 6th (= 3 uses) - 156 total
Empower + elemental + echo = 52 variable, 9th (2+2 uses) - 208 total

Persistent + echo + elemental = 35 variable, 9th (= 2+2 uses) - 140 total

Take your pick :) There are several combinations, depends on what you really want/need. If you want the variable element type you get less damage, but it may come in handy. I am not doing the math, if the saves from persistent would make up for the lesser damage :)

You need to be 15-7th level to writhe those scrolls. And they are still 3rd level spells that can be defeated by a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability.

Probably you have better options at that point.

Edit:
Actually a magus using spell scar is limited to 6th level spells at level 16.
At most 3 intensified, empowered fireballs.

Why am I limited to 6th level spells if I am not taking up spell slots? Also if I am taking up spell slots then could I use metamagic rods to let me scribe the tattoos with correct metamagic?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
D20PfSRD wrote:


A magus has room on his skin for 18 total spell levels of spell-scars, which he can create using the rules for scribing scrolls (although they do not require the Scribe Scroll feat).

Scribing scrolls require the creator to have the needed spell memorized, or, if a spontaneous caster, to know it and to expend the appropriate spell slot.

You can't use a metamagic rod to make scrolls and you can't use one with a scroll.
The spell-scars arcana work for the magus using it, I doubt that you can use it in collaboration with another crafter providing the spells as you don't use the scribe scroll feat nor any other crafting feat.


Diego Rossi wrote:
D20PfSRD wrote:


A magus has room on his skin for 18 total spell levels of spell-scars, which he can create using the rules for scribing scrolls (although they do not require the Scribe Scroll feat).

Scribing scrolls require the creator to have the needed spell memorized, or, if a spontaneous caster, to know it and to expend the appropriate spell slot.

You can't use a metamagic rod to make scrolls and you can't use one with a scroll.
The spell-scars arcana work for the magus using it, I doubt that you can use it in collaboration with another crafter providing the spells as you don't use the scribe scroll feat nor any other crafting feat.

So then why doesn't metamagic rods work? They can be expended as well as a spell to be able to use it at higher level?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Artifix wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
D20PfSRD wrote:


A magus has room on his skin for 18 total spell levels of spell-scars, which he can create using the rules for scribing scrolls (although they do not require the Scribe Scroll feat).

Scribing scrolls require the creator to have the needed spell memorized, or, if a spontaneous caster, to know it and to expend the appropriate spell slot.

You can't use a metamagic rod to make scrolls and you can't use one with a scroll.
The spell-scars arcana work for the magus using it, I doubt that you can use it in collaboration with another crafter providing the spells as you don't use the scribe scroll feat nor any other crafting feat.
So then why doesn't metamagic rods work? They can be expended as well as a spell to be able to use it at higher level?

To reiterate it:

Because rules.

Metamagic rods can't be used to make a magic item nor they can be used with a magic item.

PRD wrote:


Metamagic Feats
...
The modifications made by these feats only apply to spells cast directly by the feat user. A spellcaster can't use a metamagic feat to alter a spell being cast from a wand, scroll, or other device.

When you make a magic item you don't cast the spell, so the rods don't do anything for that.

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