2016 US Election


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Sovereign Court

Norman Osborne wrote:

Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.

Well that's embarrassing. We live in an age with google you know. It's not hard to research things. If it comes from a republican source that's usually the safest thing to do (not that any news source is particularly good these days) but republican sites are getting desperate right before the election.


Norman Osborne wrote:
At best, that was Obama making a very nebulous statement. Combined with CNN leaking debate questions to Hilary, the "mirror dimension" is the one where liberals don't have to bend over backwards trying to ignore the corruption running through their midst.

How was he saying anything nebulous?


To me, the sad part is simply this.

It doesn't end tomorrow, no matter who wins or loses.

The problem, as I see it, is how we have become people who believe what is in our facebook feed, and no longer are willing to consider that we might, in fact, be wrong, about anything. Our opinions have been galvanized, made insurmountable. we hate those who we are told to hate, and love those we are told to love. When we take a moment to go out and try to find out the facts, we only go looking for those things that support what we already believe.

And there are so, so many people, who want to believe that they are right and good, and those who disagree with them are wrong and evil, that I don't see how we can ever improve, as a people, as a society, as a culture. It's almost as if the only way this goes forward is, and always will be, somebody has to be right, and win, and those who disagree are wrong and must lose, instead of ever reaching a place where we can say

Well, maybe that isn't the way I would do it, but I see how it can work, so let's work together to try and make it as good as we can.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Guy Humual wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:

Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.

Well that's embarrassing. We live in an age with google you know. It's not hard to research things. If it comes from a republican source that's usually the safest thing to do (not that any news source is particularly good these days) but republican sites are getting desperate right before the election.

That supposes they would want the objective facts over their version of Truthiness.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Norman Osborne wrote:
At best, that was Obama making a very nebulous statement. Combined with CNN leaking debate questions to Hilary, the "mirror dimension" is the one where liberals don't have to bend over backwards trying to ignore the corruption running through their midst.

Ah yes...the moving goalposts. It's not about what Obama said...it's about the debate questions. Or the e-mail. Or Benghazi. The problem is, any number of unsubstantiated allegations still add up to exactly zero.

In fairness, hammering on those allegations in an attempt to create the appearance of corruption does seem to be Trump's best hope at this point. After all, he certainly isn't going to win based on his qualifications.


Well, remember, you're arguing with the Green Goblin, so whataya expect? ;)


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I swear, Obama could say "I won't miss being president when it is time to step down" and it would get reported as "Obama says he won't step down."


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Norman Osborne wrote:
At best, that was Obama making a very nebulous statement. Combined with CNN leaking debate questions to Hilary, the "mirror dimension" is the one where liberals don't have to bend over backwards trying to ignore the corruption running through their midst.

As opposed to the FBI leaking confidential information about investigations to the Trump campaign.

Or frankly, CNN hiring people tied to both campaigns.

Liberty's Edge

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bugleyman wrote:

I swear, Obama could say "I won't miss being president when it is time to step down" and it would get reported as "Obama says he won't step down."

Obama: "I won't...step down."


Kirth Gersen wrote:

Amazing conversation at lunch -- and by "amazing" I mean "actually causing amazement," and not in a good way.

Democrat: "How do you vote for someone who's endorsed by Putin, Kim Jong-un, and the KKK?"
Republican: "You mean Hillary?"
Everyone else (registering shock): "Uh, no, the other one."
Republican: "Well, I don't believe that."
Democrat: "You can look it up."
Republican: "I'm not going to do that. My mind is already made up."
Me: "Your mind was made up before any of the candidates were even announced."
Republican: "That's not true!"
Democrat: "Have you ever voted Democrat?"
Republican: "No, and I never will!"
Me: "Like I said..."
Republican: "But, emails!"

the horns are for the repeated headdesking?


Norman Osborne wrote:

Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.

Absolutely not. That isn't what happened, and thats why I cannot even consider voting republican, a party that's fighting a war against facts.

The young woman he's talking to was born here. She's worried that if she votes, it will flag her family (who are illegal immigrants)


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John Woodford wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

I swear, Obama could say "I won't miss being president when it is time to step down" and it would get reported as "Obama says he won't step down."

Obama: "I won't...step down."

Exactly. After all, what else would one expect from a Kenyan Muslim who kidnapped his daughters?

Silver Crusade

Germany doesn't really have Mexican food places. There's some that claim the title but they don't even qualify as Tex-Mex. So instead I shall be enjoying falafel tomorrow as I watch the east coast results come in. Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)


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bugleyman wrote:
John Woodford wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

I swear, Obama could say "I won't miss being president when it is time to step down" and it would get reported as "Obama says he won't step down."

Obama: "I won't...step down."
Exactly. After all, what else would one expect from a Kenyan Muslim who kidnapped his daughters?

A kenyan muslim atheist socialist communist weak willed dictator.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Absolutely not. That isn't what happened, and thats why I cannot even consider voting republican, a party that's fighting a war against facts.

The young woman he's talking to was born here. She's worried that if she votes, it will flag her family (who are illegal immigrants)

Now, now. Context is clearly a liberal mirror-universe construct!


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CrusaderWolf wrote:
Germany doesn't really have Mexican food places. There's some that claim the title but they don't even qualify as Tex-Mex. So instead I shall be enjoying falafel tomorrow as I watch the east coast results come in. Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)

It's really the only coast worth watching..

Sovereign Court

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Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:
That supposes they would want the objective facts over their version of Truthiness.

It could be Trumpiness, as we all know from Colbert, "Truthiness comes from the gut, but Trumpiness comes from further down the intestinal track."

Sovereign Court

Terquem wrote:

To me, the sad part is simply this.

It doesn't end tomorrow, no matter who wins or loses.

The problem, as I see it, is how we have become people who believe what is in our facebook feed, and no longer are willing to consider that we might, in fact, be wrong, about anything. Our opinions have been galvanized, made insurmountable. we hate those who we are told to hate, and love those we are told to love. When we take a moment to go out and try to find out the facts, we only go looking for those things that support what we already believe.

And there are so, so many people, who want to believe that they are right and good, and those who disagree with them are wrong and evil, that I don't see how we can ever improve, as a people, as a society, as a culture. It's almost as if the only way this goes forward is, and always will be, somebody has to be right, and win, and those who disagree are wrong and must lose, instead of ever reaching a place where we can say

Well, maybe that isn't the way I would do it, but I see how it can work, so let's work together to try and make it as good as we can.

Tomorrow is the official start of the 2020 election cycle.

Silver Crusade

BNW wrote:
It's really the only coast worth watching..

Also if Clinton snaps up Florida the fat lady starts singing. If it stays very close or Trump squeaks out a win then my hopes for a big Senate margin & flipping the House almost certainly go *poof*. Which will be sad but not as sad as a President Trump would be, so I'll count my blessings.


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Clinton is going to win the election.

The real question is will Dems get the Senate...

Silver Crusade

I think that's what I said? Apologies if I was unclear.

EDIT: I also think Dems nabbing the Senate is likely. I don't know how many Trumpers are refusing to support down-ticket Republicans but I sure hope it's all of them.


CrusaderWolf wrote:
Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)

Honestly, don't bother. This election is close enough that we probably won't know who won for at least a few days, if not weeks.

Florida is not capable of competently holding an election, and they are basically going to decided this thing. Everyone knows what happened in 2000, but FL has been a total mess in other elections as well.

We are in for a long, crappy slog.

EDIT: Based on past and current trends, I'm going to make a prediction that Trump wins Florida.
wipes vomit from corners of mouth
May god have mercy on our souls.


CrusaderWolf wrote:
I think that's what I said? Apologies if I was unclear.

Nope...I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My comment wasn't directed at you.


Fergie wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:
Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)

Honestly, don't bother. This election is close enough that we probably won't know who won for at least a few days, if not weeks.

Florida is not capable of competently holding an election, and they are basically going to decided this thing. Everyone knows what happened in 2000, but FL has been a total mess in other elections as well.

We are in for a long, crappy slog.

EDIT: Based on past and current trends, I'm going to make a prediction that Trump wins Florida.
wipes vomit from corners of mouth
May god have mercy on our souls.

At least this time, with 8 Justices, a split decision will get kicked back to the state. :P


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In case anyone wants to be prepared with copious and potent libations upon the fateful day.

:P


Fergie wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:
Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)

Honestly, don't bother. This election is close enough that we probably won't know who won for at least a few days, if not weeks.

Florida is not capable of competently holding an election, and they are basically going to decided this thing. Everyone knows what happened in 2000, but FL has been a total mess in other elections as well.

We are in for a long, crappy slog.

EDIT: Based on past and current trends, I'm going to make a prediction that Trump wins Florida.
wipes vomit from corners of mouth
May god have mercy on our souls.

Using 538's numbers, if Clinton takes every state they give her +3%, plus NH (2.9%) she wins. Florida and North Carolina wont mater.

edit: If either of those states can be called for Clinton at a reasonable time, the election will be set and you wont have to stay up for the west coast.

Liberty's Edge

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CrusaderWolf wrote:
Also if Clinton snaps up Florida the fat lady starts singing. If it stays very close or Trump squeaks out a win then my hopes for a big Senate margin & flipping the House almost certainly go *poof*. Which will be sad but not as sad as a President Trump would be, so I'll count my blessings.

A big Senate margin or House flip is about as likely as Trump winning the presidency... could happen if the polls have nearly all been consistently off in the same direction, but not very likely. Still, we don't necessarily need that level of success to get things done;

Just a Clinton win = Four more years of gridlock. Clinton probably still gets to appoint a SCOTUS justice and tip the balance of power... thereby allowing her to also move forward with executive actions without worrying about them being over-turned on absurd pretexts. So she'd be better off than Obama had it for most of his presidency. Conversely, if they block her SCOTUS nominee it will be a complete standstill.

+ Senate majority = GOP won't be able to block SCOTUS nominee (Dems will go nuclear if they try) and Clinton will thus have a relatively free hand with executive actions and will also be able to move most other appointments.

+ House flip = Any legislation the Senate cannot filibuster can be moved forward... budgets can be passed, Obamacare can potentially be improved, et cetera.

+ Senate supermajority = Ability to advance anything all Senate Dems agree on. IMO should focus first on a new voting rights act to make voter suppression measures illegal.


Fergie wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:
Even going to wake up at 3am so I don't miss anything :)

Honestly, don't bother. This election is close enough that we probably won't know who won for at least a few days, if not weeks.

Florida is not capable of competently holding an election, and they are basically going to decided this thing. Everyone knows what happened in 2000, but FL has been a total mess in other elections as well.

We are in for a long, crappy slog.

EDIT: Based on past and current trends, I'm going to make a prediction that Trump wins Florida.
wipes vomit from corners of mouth
May god have mercy on our souls.

I think every election since 2000 there have been dire predictions of how we won't know for days. We've been scarred by that trauma.

I predict we'll know tomorrow night. Probably pretty early - though not officially until the West Coast starts coming in, but as Caineach says if Florida or NC get called for Clinton, it's over. The only question left is by how much.
And the important question of whether Democrats can take the Senate.


CBDunkerson wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:
Also if Clinton snaps up Florida the fat lady starts singing. If it stays very close or Trump squeaks out a win then my hopes for a big Senate margin & flipping the House almost certainly go *poof*. Which will be sad but not as sad as a President Trump would be, so I'll count my blessings.

A big Senate margin or House flip is about as likely as Trump winning the presidency... could happen if the polls have nearly all been consistently off in the same direction, but not very likely. Still, we don't necessarily need that level of success to get things done;

Just a Clinton win = Four more years of gridlock. Clinton probably still gets to appoint a SCOTUS justice and tip the balance of power... thereby allowing her to also move forward with executive actions without worrying about them being over-turned on absurd pretexts. So she'd be better off than Obama had it for most of his presidency. Conversely, if they block her SCOTUS nominee it will be a complete standstill.

+ Senate majority = GOP won't be able to block SCOTUS nominee (Dems will go nuclear if they try) and Clinton will thus have a relatively free hand with executive actions and will also be able to move most other appointments.

+ House flip = Any legislation the Senate cannot filibuster can be moved forward... budgets can be passed, Obamacare can potentially be improved, et cetera.

+ Senate supermajority = Ability to advance anything all Senate Dems agree on. IMO should focus first on a new voting rights act to make voter suppression measures illegal.

Majority is all I'm really hoping for. Flipping the House was a long shot, even before Comey interfered and they took Trump's twitter account away.

Is a Senate super majority even technically possible? I guess it is - 24 Republican seats up for election, but Democrats would need to take 14 of them and hold all theirs. Not happening.


Tomorrow's the big day. I'm so excidit!


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thejeff wrote:
I predict we'll know tomorrow night. Probably pretty early - though not officially until the West Coast starts coming in, but as Caineach says if Florida or NC get called for Clinton, it's over. The only question left is by how much.

Google say's they'll post real-time results on the search page, updating every 30 seconds

Google Election Results

Way to stifle the western vote

Dark Archive

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thejeff wrote:

Majority is all I'm really hoping for. Flipping the House was a long shot, even before Comey interfered and they took Trump's twitter account away.

Is a Senate super majority even technically possible? I guess it is - 24 Republican seats up for election, but Democrats would need to take 14 of them and hold all theirs. Not happening.

Just remember, folks, we can't trust this guy with a cell phone and 140 characters, but we can trust him with the highest office in the land.


CBDunkerson wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:


Just a Clinton win = Four more years of gridlock.

Two years. A third of the Senate and all of the House are up for election in 2018.


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markofbane wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
CrusaderWolf wrote:


Just a Clinton win = Four more years of gridlock.

Two years. A third of the Senate and all of the House are up for election in 2018.

Republicans will likely retake the Senate in 2018. House wont change until districts are redrawn.


That's true. Most of the Senate seats up in 2018 are currently held by Democrats making any change to the status quo then more likely to favor the Republicans. I was just pointing out that there is a decision point ahead of 2020.


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Rysky wrote:
Need some Alt-Delete...

For us to get that, we'd first need to have some semblance of Control.

Silver Crusade

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Need some Alt-Delete...
For us to get that, we'd first need to have some semblance of Control.

*sigh*

Yeah...


Trump sees Clinton’s celebrity support as ‘a form of cheating’


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Glenn Beck Recants

One recent morning, after the release of Donald Trump’s Tic Tac tape and his subsequent mansplanation about locker-room talk, Glenn Beck clicked on a video of Michelle Obama campaigning for Hillary Clinton in a New Hampshire gymnasium. The First Lady ripped into Trump’s comments, calling them “disgraceful” and “intolerable,” and adding, “It doesn’t matter what party you belong to—Democrat, Republican, Independent—no woman deserves to be treated this way.” Beck was mesmerized. On his radio program that day, he heralded Obama’s remarks as “the most effective political speech I have heard since Ronald Reagan.”

“Those words hit me where I live,” Beck said the other day. He was speedwalking up Eighth Avenue with his wife, son, and daughter, all in from Toronto. “If you’re a decent human being, those words were dead on.”


The reality television star says celebrity support is cheating. XD

...

You know, I think his opponents would agree. Y'know, the ones who lost while he was getting literally hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free coverage, thanks in part to his existing celebrity status?


CrystalSeas wrote:
thejeff wrote:
I predict we'll know tomorrow night. Probably pretty early - though not officially until the West Coast starts coming in, but as Caineach says if Florida or NC get called for Clinton, it's over. The only question left is by how much.

Google say's they'll post real-time results on the search page, updating every 30 seconds

Google Election Results

Way to stifle the western vote

It always happens. People always complain about it.

I assume those real-time results will be actual reporting of results, like news channels have reported every cycle since I was old enough to pay attention, not secret access to preliminary results or just based on exit polls or nonsense like that.


thejeff wrote:
Rednal wrote:

...I suppose that's one way of interpreting that.

Personally, I interpreted it rather differently. He clearly noted that when you vote, you're a citizen - as in, you need to prove you're a citizen to get onto the voter rolls in the first place. Therefore, anybody who votes probably doesn't need to worry about police hammering on their door to investigate them and make sure it was legit - the security is elsewhere in the process.

He also goes on to say
Quote:

OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don't want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you're not just speaking for yourself. You're speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school...

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: ... who may not have a voice. Who can't legally vote. But they're counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

With that context, he's obviously talking about Latino citizens voting, worried about repercussions to their possibly undocumented family members, etc.

It's a really poorly phrased question and not a great answer. He should have made it clearer, but he's not actually encouraging non-citizens to vote.

You're neglecting the possibility that this might be an editing hatchet job simmilar to the ones performed on ACORN and Planned Parenthood.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Rednal wrote:

...I suppose that's one way of interpreting that.

Personally, I interpreted it rather differently. He clearly noted that when you vote, you're a citizen - as in, you need to prove you're a citizen to get onto the voter rolls in the first place. Therefore, anybody who votes probably doesn't need to worry about police hammering on their door to investigate them and make sure it was legit - the security is elsewhere in the process.

He also goes on to say
Quote:

OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don't want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you're not just speaking for yourself. You're speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school...

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: ... who may not have a voice. Who can't legally vote. But they're counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

With that context, he's obviously talking about Latino citizens voting, worried about repercussions to their possibly undocumented family members, etc.

It's a really poorly phrased question and not a great answer. He should have made it clearer, but he's not actually encouraging non-citizens to vote.

You're neglecting the possibility that this might be an editing hatchet job simmilar to the ones performed on ACORN and Planned Parenthood.

Doesn't seem to be. Though the clip originally linked and the one getting play on Fox cuts off before the bit I quoted.

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CrystalSeas wrote:

Google say's they'll post real-time results on the search page, updating every 30 seconds

Google Election Results

Way to stifle the western vote

That's not much different than what we see every election.. they're just providing a central locations to access the results... as several news organizations have been doing for decades.

Want to really freak out?

Slate is going to be projecting battlefield state results all day based on early voting totals, exit polls, and other analysis.

I think that could be anywhere between a good thing and a disaster, depending on how they handle it.

The potential benefit is that no one stays home thinking their party has it in the bag or no chance... and then is surprised to discover that it was super close only when the polls have closed. If they announce rough estimates of who is leading with plenty of caveats about the data being incomplete / uncertain and still subject to change if voting patterns shift later in the day... then they can provide a valuable service by giving people a rough idea of how the vote is going. If anything, that might encourage MORE people to vote in close elections. Think about the buyer's remorse after the Brexit vote... with advance notice how things were trending earlier in the day people wouldn't have had any excuse for not voting or choosing exit on a lark.

What they absolutely have to avoid is 'calling' any election or even suggesting that the result is unlikely to change while polls are still open. That could obviously depress turnout.


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I mean, he literally said the words "Latino citizens," I don't see how a person can then claim he's talking about non-citizens without the most deliberate of misinterpretation.

Dark Archive

I kept turning my clock back to 1am yesterday but Monday still came. Colbert lied to me.


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Rednal wrote:

The reality television star says celebrity support is cheating. XD

...

You know, I think his opponents would agree. Y'know, the ones who lost while he was getting literally hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free coverage, thanks in part to his existing celebrity status?

My favorite parts of the article.

Quote:
The GOP nominee has complained about Beyonce and Jay Z at public appearances for four straight days – the Washington Post said the candidate and his surrogates are starting to appear “obsessed” with the couple – whining incessantly about, among other things, Jay Z’s profanity.
Quote:
It reached the point over the weekend that Trump actually said Clinton’s appearances with stars is “demeaning to the political process” – which seemed like an odd thing for Donald Trump, of all people, to say.

Sovereign Court

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Squeakmaan wrote:
I mean, he literally said the words "Latino citizens," I don't see how a person can then claim he's talking about non-citizens without the most deliberate of misinterpretation.

The interviewer offered a creative definition of 'citizen' that includes non-citizens. I can understand the misinterpretation on a surface level, but in full context his meaning is clear.


KingOfAnything wrote:
Squeakmaan wrote:
I mean, he literally said the words "Latino citizens," I don't see how a person can then claim he's talking about non-citizens without the most deliberate of misinterpretation.
The interviewer offered a creative definition of 'citizen' that includes non-citizens. I can understand the misinterpretation on a surface level, but in full context his meaning is clear.

Which is why it was a bad answer. He should know by now everything can and will be taken out of context and twisted.

A simple "Well obviously you need to legally be a citizen to vote..." and then go into the rest of the answer would avoid any legitimate confusion and require more editing to get to the illegitimate kind.


...He kinda did say that, though. If I remember right, he verbally mentioned something along the lines of "If you're voting, you're a citizen" - which is a bit more indirect, but still hits the main point there.

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