2016 US Election


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America is not perfect. It is, contrary to popular belief, composed of people.


Sissyl wrote:
America is not perfect. It is, contrary to popular belief, composed of people.

I don't know if I would call all of these things stumbling around "people"

Sovereign Court

It's worth noting, well we are on the verge of a possible Trump defeat, that most terrorist attacks in the US were carried out by anti-government groups or white supremacists. You know, the people likely supporting Trump? The ones that have been told that the election is rigged? I mean regular run of the mill mass shootings dwarf terror attacks already in the US, so if you're concerned about terrorism, whilst ignoring the elephant in the room, you're already seeming a bit dubious in your logic and reasoning (you're more likely to be killed by someone going on a shooting rampage because his wife left him then a planned terrorist attack), but even if you're concerned about terrorism there are far more whites in the country and so naturally there's way more terrorist acts committed by them. Basically Islamic terrorism is not a huge threat, nor is it particularly wide spread, and people claiming it is are trying to scare you to make an uninformed rash decision.

As far as refugees, like the Syrians, they're not a particularly high risk group. If someone is looking to get into the US for terrorist attacks entering into the refugee system is not only not a sure fire way to get into the West, never mind America, but it's a very very lengthy process. While a few (maybe a dozen) of the 750 000 refugees settled in the US since 9/11 have been arrested or removed from the country due to terrorist concerns, the majority of those were concerning plots outside of America. To my knowledge only one has been arrested for plotting attacks within the US. None of them have actually successfully committed terrorist attacks.

Liberty's Edge

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Guy Humual wrote:
It's worth noting, well we are on the verge of a possible Trump defeat, that most terrorist attacks in the US were carried out by anti-government groups or white supremacists. You know, the people likely supporting Trump? The ones that have been told that the election is rigged?

Yeah... and the recent jury nullification in the Bundy case will only help to convince them that they are 'right'.

The GOP used to pander to run of the mill bigots while pretending that was just liberal propaganda. Trump has taken them to the next level... pandering to hate groups and terrorists while pretending not to.

The FBI is warning of possible terrorist attacks the day before the election. I'm more worried about the day after.


Faces of the Ultra-Left

We are still #NotWithThem

Pals of mine: La Principessa, German friend of La Principessa's that trades on Facebook as "Lotte Da", Howie Hawkins's running partner for Lieutenant Governor of New York in the last gubernatorial election, Sister Wallace from the "Girl Pepper Sprayed" thread, Independent Maoist-Inclined Red Historian Rival for La Principessa's Affections (Since Vanquished).

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed a couple posts and the resulting responses. We don't have interest in hosting commentary which disparages whole religious/ethnic groups on our website. Please familiarize yourself with our Community Guidelines before posting.

Also, given our closeness to Election Day and it still being the weekend, I'm leaving this closed until we return to the office tomorrow.

EDIT: Now unlocked. Before re-engaging in this thread, take a quick peek at the guidelines linked above. Let's focus on challenging ideas, not other people in the conversation. The next ~24 hours are going to be pretty exciting/tense for all parties. Trying to keep the conversation civil is a great help to our moderation team, and we appreciate your understanding.


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Rysky wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Pan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:


Still seems pretty shady even without the gun.
He's stumping the required 40ish feet away, which he's allowed to do. Free speach and all that
Yeah, there's no way a 357 Mangum can make a shot at that range. [/sarcasm]
You'd be surprised how often people miss at 21ft with a .357. I recall this line from George Romaro's Dawn of the Dead, "the only sucka who could miss with this (gun), is the brother with enough bread to buy it!"
You'd be surprised how often people miss full stop. Police hit rates are around 5-20%, and they are usually a heck of a lot closer than 20ft. The fact is that unless they seriously train for it, almost everyone is an atrocious shot under stress. With the exception of SWAT, police snipers and similar, most police do not train seriously for it.

More snarky response:

Roll-to-Hit doesn't apply in real life, you fire a gun, the bullet IS going to end up in something.

And that's beside the fact that guns have a whole clip to shoot from, not just one bullet.

*Magazine

Someone had to do it.

Silver Crusade

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Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Pan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:


Still seems pretty shady even without the gun.
He's stumping the required 40ish feet away, which he's allowed to do. Free speach and all that
Yeah, there's no way a 357 Mangum can make a shot at that range. [/sarcasm]
You'd be surprised how often people miss at 21ft with a .357. I recall this line from George Romaro's Dawn of the Dead, "the only sucka who could miss with this (gun), is the brother with enough bread to buy it!"
You'd be surprised how often people miss full stop. Police hit rates are around 5-20%, and they are usually a heck of a lot closer than 20ft. The fact is that unless they seriously train for it, almost everyone is an atrocious shot under stress. With the exception of SWAT, police snipers and similar, most police do not train seriously for it.

More snarky response:

Roll-to-Hit doesn't apply in real life, you fire a gun, the bullet IS going to end up in something.

And that's beside the fact that guns have a whole clip to shoot from, not just one bullet.

*Magazine

Someone had to do it.

Spurred on by this post I typed "gun clip" into the google and "9 Most Misused Gun Terms" was the first thing that popped up XD

Well, at least I learned something today lol

Sovereign Court

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I just got back from two weeks in Europe. A neighbor put up a 12 ft sign with cemented footings for Trump. Under it is a typical yard sign that said "stop stealing my trump signs you are a criminal just like Hilary!" Thought thatw as pretty funny the length of effort and expense the neighbor is willing to go to.


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Aaaaand over the weekend, the FBI said they found nothing in the new emails that changed their previous decision - the emails they found were either personal or things the agency had already reviewed.

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Police: Shots fired at Trump sign hanging outside Cary, NC home.


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jocundthejolly wrote:
Doing the one of the first two might clean your conscience but doing the latter could potentially clear the Clinton machine out of the Democratic Party, allowing the new leadership to focus on the issues they care about instead of protecting the political interests of the political family that just won’t go away.

Or maybe we stop being fixated on personalities and vote for policy like we should. And when it becomes a choice between platforms, it's a choice between the values they represent. The Republican Platform is based on fear and looking backwards. The Democratic Platform is the most progressive the party has put forward since Roosevelt.

It's time to get past the Clinton fixation that Fox and the like have been trying to push on us since Bill got elected.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Maybe the FBI director does not wish for a Trump victory but just for weakening Democrats' efforts at seizing the Congress ?

Which sounds quite close to the GOP's higher-ups strategy just before the FBI reopened the case


The Raven Black wrote:

Maybe the FBI director does not wish for a Trump victory but just for weakening Democrats' efforts at seizing the Congress ?

Which sounds quite close to the GOP's higher-ups strategy just before the FBI reopened the case

More likely it's a case of Comey's putting "looking out for number one" ahead of the priorities he should be exercising as Democrat. It's clear that he did what he did to please the Republicans and ensure his getting a cushy corporate or corporate lobbying job when he takes the revolving door out of public service.

Or maybe he has delusions of being the next J. Edgar Hoover.


Oath Keepers - Operation Sabot 2016
This seems weird starting with the name (Sabot is the origin of the word Sabotage) and remains weird throughout.

My only direct interaction with Oath Keepers was in Key Largo, Florida, and the fellow I spent time with was really cool, and not at all racist. It seems the broader organization is much closer to the Brietbart side of things. Very sad and troubling.


Fergie wrote:

Oath Keepers - Operation Sabot 2016

This seems weird starting with the name (Sabot is the origin of the word Sabotage) and remains weird throughout.

My only direct interaction with Oath Keepers was in Key Largo, Florida, and the fellow I spent time with was really cool, and not at all racist. It seems the broader organization is much closer to the Brietbart side of things. Very sad and troubling.

fixed your link

Another hate group answering the call of Trump. That's the thing with mobs. They are frequently composed of individuals who are ordinarily fairly decent people whose worse sides are brought out by them.

The Oath Keepers are another group of mostly whites who've had the shock of living in a country with 8 years of not having a white male in the Oval Office.... and now they're facing the idea of a woman at the helm... a Liberal at that.


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I'd given up on this thread because I was tired of rehashing the same damn documented, objective facts every page or two. I dunno, I think I've taken enough WIS drain from this election that dipping a toe back in seems like a rational idea...

Well, whataya know:

The Guardian: (Nov 07) "James Comey: FBI has found no criminal wrongdoing in new Clinton emails " Edit: Ninja'd by Rednal.

It appears Comey was 1) trying to play politics in the big league with the House Republicans, 2) trying to appease hardcore anti-Clinton agents within the NY division of the FBI, and 3) simultaneously cover his own !ss. It seems he's failed on all counts:

Daily Beast: (Oct 30) "Imagine if James Comey Had Kept Quiet—Then Thank Him for Speaking Up"
‘He was caught between a rock and many, many hard places,’ a former FBI official says. ‘I don’t think he had any option.’ (I disagree strongly that we should be grateful to Comey, but the article covers important info.)

Daily Beast: (Nov 03) "Donald Trump’s Top FBI Fanboy"
"Trump supporters with strong ties to the agency kept talking about surprises and leaks to come—and come they did."

On November 9th, Obama should sit Comey down in his office and explain how Comey is going to resign to spend more time with the family. The FBI is already investigating their own Twitter account (11/03). Michael McGarrity is taking over the Criminal Division of the NY Division of the FBI (11/04). I imagine that Obama and the DoJ will see that the beatings will continue until morale improves other !sshole FBI personnel from NY will be "reassigned" or "early retired" until it appears that the division is back doing its damn job instead of rabidly pursuing partisan witchhunts.

---

I don't feel any sympathy for Comey. He was perfectly happy to attempt f!cking over Clinton's campaign and Dem races throughout the country. Clinton's chances now are likely close to the same as before, but he may have f!cked key Senate races. If Clinton wins but doesn't retain a bare 51-49 majority in the new Senate, she'll get no legislation passed and no judges confirmed; at this point I'm not even sure they'd confirm her Whitehouse Cabinet members. Yes, the Republican-controlled House is going to impeach her. It won't pass even a Repub-controlled Senate, but they'll still do it for Political Theater. Also, remember that the current stop-gap spending bill ends December 9th. And Paul Ryan may resign as Speaker of the House, grinding a new spending bill to a halt.


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Also, requiescat in pace, Janet Reno.


Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:


On November 9th, Obama should sit Comey down in his office and explain how Comey is going to resign to spend more time with the family. The FBI is already investigating their own Twitter account (11/03)....

You do understand that it would be playing right into Republican hands to make Comey a martyr in this way? Even if he is guilty of violating the Hatch Act? And firing the bulk of the FBI on a political witch hunt isn't a good idea either.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:


On November 9th, Obama should sit Comey down in his office and explain how Comey is going to resign to spend more time with the family. The FBI is already investigating their own Twitter account (11/03)....
You do understand that it would be playing right into Republican hands to make Comey a martyr in this way? Even if he is guilty of violating the Hatch Act? And firing the bulk of the FBI on a political witch hunt isn't a good idea either.

Comey has proven he has to go. Better he and other agenda-grinding agents be forced out, than to have them stay and continue undermining the FBI's effectiveness and public reputation from inside. When you have bad apples in the barrel, you have to get them out before the whole barrel rots.

The Republicans that hate Clinton already hate her. They were already planning to fight her every step of the way before now. They are going to politicize and distort everything she does anyway. The President and the country need an effective FBI that does its job. Hopefully Obama will start clearing the deadwood out before she's sworn in; being charged with violating the Hatch Act (or the threat of it) should help the deadwood make the right choice for everyone.

Sovereign Court

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RainyDayNinja wrote:
Police: Shots fired at Trump sign hanging outside Cary, NC home.

Pretty misleading story. "shots fired" typically isn't used for BB guns or pellets. That info is also withheld until about halfway through the article. Clearly, this was just folks engaging in juvenile behavior.


Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:

Comey has proven he has to go. Better he and other agenda-grinding agents be forced out, than to have them stay and continue undermining the FBI's effectiveness and public reputation from inside. When you have bad apples in the barrel, you have to get them out before the whole barrel rots.

The Republicans that hate Clinton already hate her. They were already planning to fight her every step of the way before now. They are going to politicize and distort everything she does anyway. The President and the country need an effective FBI that does its job. Hopefully Obama will start clearing the deadwood out before she's sworn in; being charged with violating the Hatch Act (or the threat of it) should help the deadwood make the right choice for everyone.

Housecleaning at the FBI would be one of the more useful things Obama could do for Clinton on his way out, so that she doesn't have to.


Rysky wrote:
Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Pan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:


Still seems pretty shady even without the gun.
He's stumping the required 40ish feet away, which he's allowed to do. Free speach and all that
Yeah, there's no way a 357 Mangum can make a shot at that range. [/sarcasm]
You'd be surprised how often people miss at 21ft with a .357. I recall this line from George Romaro's Dawn of the Dead, "the only sucka who could miss with this (gun), is the brother with enough bread to buy it!"
You'd be surprised how often people miss full stop. Police hit rates are around 5-20%, and they are usually a heck of a lot closer than 20ft. The fact is that unless they seriously train for it, almost everyone is an atrocious shot under stress. With the exception of SWAT, police snipers and similar, most police do not train seriously for it.

More snarky response:

Roll-to-Hit doesn't apply in real life, you fire a gun, the bullet IS going to end up in something.

And that's beside the fact that guns have a whole clip to shoot from, not just one bullet.

*Magazine

Someone had to do it.

Spurred on by this post I typed "gun clip" into the google and "9 Most Misused Gun Terms" was the first thing that popped up XD

Well, at least I learned something today lol

In fairness, that is THE single most common mistake I see from people who are unfamiliar with firearms, just above "assault weapon".

Silver Crusade

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Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Pan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:


Still seems pretty shady even without the gun.
He's stumping the required 40ish feet away, which he's allowed to do. Free speach and all that
Yeah, there's no way a 357 Mangum can make a shot at that range. [/sarcasm]
You'd be surprised how often people miss at 21ft with a .357. I recall this line from George Romaro's Dawn of the Dead, "the only sucka who could miss with this (gun), is the brother with enough bread to buy it!"
You'd be surprised how often people miss full stop. Police hit rates are around 5-20%, and they are usually a heck of a lot closer than 20ft. The fact is that unless they seriously train for it, almost everyone is an atrocious shot under stress. With the exception of SWAT, police snipers and similar, most police do not train seriously for it.

More snarky response:

Roll-to-Hit doesn't apply in real life, you fire a gun, the bullet IS going to end up in something.

And that's beside the fact that guns have a whole clip to shoot from, not just one bullet.

*Magazine

Someone had to do it.

Spurred on by this post I typed "gun clip" into the google and "9 Most Misused Gun Terms" was the first thing that popped up XD

Well, at least I learned something today lol

In fairness, that is THE single most common mistake I see from people who are unfamiliar with firearms, just above "assault weapon".

*nods*

I stopped using "assault weapon" awhile ago.


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Rysky wrote:
gun stuff

Good on ye, friendo.


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Amazing conversation at lunch -- and by "amazing" I mean "actually causing amazement," and not in a good way.

Democrat: "How do you vote for someone who's endorsed by Putin, Kim Jong-un, and the KKK?"
Republican: "You mean Hillary?"
Everyone else (registering shock): "Uh, no, the other one."
Republican: "Well, I don't believe that."
Democrat: "You can look it up."
Republican: "I'm not going to do that. My mind is already made up."
Me: "Your mind was made up before any of the candidates were even announced."
Republican: "That's not true!"
Democrat: "Have you ever voted Democrat?"
Republican: "No, and I never will!"
Me: "Like I said..."
Republican: "But, emails!"


Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:


On November 9th, Obama should sit Comey down in his office and explain how Comey is going to resign to spend more time with the family. The FBI is already investigating their own Twitter account (11/03)....
You do understand that it would be playing right into Republican hands to make Comey a martyr in this way? Even if he is guilty of violating the Hatch Act? And firing the bulk of the FBI on a political witch hunt isn't a good idea either.

And if he stays and doesn't indict her for something (anything!), then that's just playing into their hands too because it just shows he's her puppet.

That's almost the beauty of them having descended so far into conspiracy theory land - when anything is proof of the conspiracy, you're freed to go do what you need to do.

I think at this point, cleaning the FBI out is more important than any political damage it might cause. Which, if done swiftly, will be pretty much over by 2018. Better than having them playing partisan political games in the next cycle.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Norman Osborne wrote:

Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.

Do you have a link to the unedited version?

Grand Lodge

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Norman Osborne wrote:

Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

A sitting US President encouraging voter fraud on live TV in order to make sure that his party stays in power.

Try this one.


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...I suppose that's one way of interpreting that.

Personally, I interpreted it rather differently. He clearly noted that when you vote, you're a citizen - as in, you need to prove you're a citizen to get onto the voter rolls in the first place. Therefore, anybody who votes probably doesn't need to worry about police hammering on their door to investigate them and make sure it was legit - the security is elsewhere in the process.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote

You're quoting Breitbart???? Might as well stand in line at the grocery store and post the headlines from the National Enquirer.


CrystalSeas wrote:
Norman Osborne wrote:
Obama Encourages Illegals to Vote
You're quoting Breitbart???? Might as well stand in line at the grocery store and post the headlines from the National Enquirer.

Speaking of: WSJ: "National Enquirer Shielded Donald Trump From Playboy Model’s Affair Allegation"


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Rednal wrote:

...I suppose that's one way of interpreting that.

Personally, I interpreted it rather differently. He clearly noted that when you vote, you're a citizen - as in, you need to prove you're a citizen to get onto the voter rolls in the first place. Therefore, anybody who votes probably doesn't need to worry about police hammering on their door to investigate them and make sure it was legit - the security is elsewhere in the process.

He also goes on to say
Quote:

OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don't want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you're not just speaking for yourself. You're speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school...

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: ... who may not have a voice. Who can't legally vote. But they're counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

With that context, he's obviously talking about Latino citizens voting, worried about repercussions to their possibly undocumented family members, etc.

It's a really poorly phrased question and not a great answer. He should have made it clearer, but he's not actually encouraging non-citizens to vote.

Liberty's Edge

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Wow.

He said that only citizens are able to vote and that an undocumented immigrant wouldn't be on the voter rolls... and from that they got 'Obama encourages illegals to vote!' ??


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Well, remember that it's not so much "alt-right" as "alt-reality"...


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I think they forget their powers are much weaker outside the mirror dimension.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Need some Alt-Delete...


Obama was clearly saying "if you -- as a citizen -- vote, there will be no repercussions for members of your household who may themselves be in the country illegally."

With Trump routinely saying actually crazy things, the temptation to feed the false equivalence narrative by twisting the president's words appears to be quite strong.


At best, that was Obama making a very nebulous statement. Combined with CNN leaking debate questions to Hilary, the "mirror dimension" is the one where liberals don't have to bend over backwards trying to ignore the corruption running through their midst.

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