2016 US Election


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Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Honestly? If I'm worried about anything, it's electronic voting machines. Who knows what safeguards (or lack thereof) are on those things?
Oh oh oh but if we resurrect Robin Williams the machines will make him President! It's happened before!

*starts to sacrifice frozen chicken breasts to Orcus to see if the Demon Prince can help out*

Dark Archive

Ajaxis wrote:
In these days of absentee voting, and early voting, it would work wonders to get everybody voting.

While I don't think compulsory voting would work here (the fine would serve as yet another tax on poor people who *can't* take a day off to vote, for whatever reason), the notion of making Election Day a federal holiday (if it replaced Labor Day, every Republican would vote for it!), and giving a lot more people the day off, could be an option.

That said, the people who are most hindered from getting to the polls by their jobs and financial situation would be the one's least likely to get the day off anyway, since McDonalds and Bob's Auto Repair don't generally give holidays off (let alone paid holidays), so I'm probably just re-arranging deck chairs...

Liberty's Edge

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Set wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

In the small town I used to live in, the county DMV office was only open every other Tuesday.

Good luck getting an I.D. with those hours.

In Nashua, for most of the time I've lived here, you had to go to Merrimack (a neighboring town) for your driver's license, as Nashua (a town of 86,000 people) didn't have it's own DMV.

If you didn't have reliable transportation (I took the bus or walked everywhere), it was pretty much a non-starter. Elderly, without a personal chauffer to run you over there? No DMV for you.

It's finally improved, and you can now get your license renewed in town, but Nashua's the second-largest town in the state, so it always seemed weird to me.

This is the general problem with tying a right (voting) to infrastructure intended to support a privilege (driving).

Liberty's Edge

Set wrote:
Ajaxis wrote:
In these days of absentee voting, and early voting, it would work wonders to get everybody voting.

While I don't think compulsory voting would work here (the fine would serve as yet another tax on poor people who *can't* take a day off to vote, for whatever reason), the notion of making Election Day a federal holiday (if it replaced Labor Day, every Republican would vote for it!), and giving a lot more people the day off, could be an option.

That said, the people who are most hindered from getting to the polls by their jobs and financial situation would be the one's least likely to get the day off anyway, since McDonalds and Bob's Auto Repair don't generally give holidays off (let alone paid holidays), so I'm probably just re-arranging deck chairs...

On the other hand they would get holiday pay.

Perhaps if we made election day more than one day and require that people be given one of them as a holiday.


Oregon's gone to an entirely vote-by-mail system. Seems to have increased turnout.

Same-day registration works. Allowing early voting in person works. There are plenty of ways known to increase turn out.

There are also ways to depress it. Those are also used heavily.


Which comes back around to voter turnout being pretty bad, even during Presidential election years. There are plenty of ways to vote as-is, yet it rarely breaks 60%, often staying below half in 'off years'. There are plenty of reasons why it is relatively poor, too.

*le sigh*


NobodysHome wrote:

IDs are all kinds of interesting around here. My 15-year-old son has an annual pass to Disneyland that should get him a 15-20% discount throughout the park...

...except it requires a photo ID, and they wouldn't accept his high school ID card. "Has to be a driver's license" is a standard response when you try to produce ID in this country.

I'm ornery. I present my passport card. You'd be surprised how often locations refuse and demand a valid driver's license instead.

So not only is there no "national ID" card, but many forms of identification are rejected out-of-hand and there is a demand for a driver's license. Because everybody has one, right?

EDIT: To be 100% clear, I have never had my passport card rejected at a government office, so this is NOT a claim of voter disenfranchisement. I'm just joining the chorus of, "IDs in this country are weird" derailment...

DMVs do issue Non-Drivers Licenses. My spouse went to get his after he stopped driving due to the fact that his vision is almost entirely useless. That did not stop the now privately-run NJDMV from pushing him to renew his driver's license instead. You see in NJ, once you get your driver's license, you can be legally blind and and they'll still renew it as the fee costs more than the non-driver's ID. About the only way to lose your license in the state is to kill someone with a vehicle.

Liberty's Edge

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
My spouse went to get his after he stopped driving due to the fact that his vision is almost entirely useless. That did not stop the now privately-run NJDMV from pushing him to renew his driver's license instead. You see in NJ, once you get your driver's license, you can be legally blind and and they'll still renew it as the fee costs more than the non-driver's ID. About the only way to lose your license in the state is to kill someone with a vehicle.

That explains so much about NJ drivers... ;)

I kid, I kid.

They're better than DE drivers.


Kren,

Speaking as a guy that has a lot of NJ drivers in his town, not sure DE are that bad.

Liberty's Edge

Go drive in DE a lot.

Trust me. There's a reason DE insurance rates are so high.


I can't. I'm not willing to drive 5 hours just to total my only means of transport.

Liberty's Edge

I have found NJ drivers to be rude and selfish, and a little pushy.

DE drivers are not conversant with the laws of physics. Concepts such as safe following distance or stopping length are completely foreign to them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Krensky wrote:

I have found NJ drivers to be rude and selfish, and a little pushy.

DE drivers are not conversant with the laws of physics. Concepts such as safe following distance or stopping length are completely foreign to them.

See also: IN drivers.


See I did remember that about IN drivers Thunder since myself and my mom drove to Iowa and let me tell you, I was worried we wouldn't get out of Indianapolis alive.


The worst I have seen are TN drivers, and that especially includes the moron who drive trucks in that state. I had to drive cross country when I moved from Upstate NY to Nevada (taking the southern route as it was winter, I had no desire to get snowed in going right past the Great Lakes or...shudder...Denver) and the TN drivers were by far the absolute worst of the entire drive, made worse by the fact I had to go across the entire state...the long way.


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I've driven twice across the long way of Montana.

That way, madness dwells.

Liberty's Edge

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Set wrote:
While I don't think compulsory voting would work here (the fine would serve as yet another tax on poor people who *can't* take a day off to vote, for whatever reason), the notion of making Election Day a federal holiday (if it replaced Labor Day, every Republican would vote for it!), and giving a lot more people the day off, could be an option.

If only that (i.e GOP voting to replace Labor Day with Voting Day) were true. Unfortunately, they are well aware that this would be another of several possible changes which would make voting easy enough to nearly wipe them off the map in a single election cycle.

Besides, they've already settled on rebranding Labor Day as the day to celebrate all the heroic corporate bigwigs who allow people to work for them.


Krensky wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
My spouse went to get his after he stopped driving due to the fact that his vision is almost entirely useless. That did not stop the now privately-run NJDMV from pushing him to renew his driver's license instead. You see in NJ, once you get your driver's license, you can be legally blind and and they'll still renew it as the fee costs more than the non-driver's ID. About the only way to lose your license in the state is to kill someone with a vehicle.

That explains so much about NJ drivers... ;)

I kid, I kid.

They're better than DE drivers.

Being a native New Jerseyan, I thought the worst drivers were the ones on the New Jersey Turnpike.

Until I spent a week in West Virginia on a temp assignment.


TN is best crossed in a single day, during daylight with clear or only a light overcast.

Alternatively (going east to west), stop on the west side of Knoxville, then the following morning make a mad dash into AR by dinner time.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
My spouse went to get his after he stopped driving due to the fact that his vision is almost entirely useless. That did not stop the now privately-run NJDMV from pushing him to renew his driver's license instead. You see in NJ, once you get your driver's license, you can be legally blind and and they'll still renew it as the fee costs more than the non-driver's ID. About the only way to lose your license in the state is to kill someone with a vehicle.

That explains so much about NJ drivers... ;)

I kid, I kid.

They're better than DE drivers.

Being a native New Jerseyan, I thought the worst drivers were the ones on the New Jersey Turnpike.

Until I spent a week in West Virginia on a temp assignment.

:P Thanks a lot Drah...


Turin the Mad wrote:

TN is best crossed in a single day, during daylight with clear or only a light overcast.

Alternatively (going east to west), stop on the west side of Knoxville, then the following morning make a mad dash into AR by dinner time.

I made it to Lebanon, and got hammered by the gridlock the next day. But thankfully I did at least manage to make it out of the state and the next night I was in Oklahoma.

Started in Plattsburgh NY, then spent the first night in Hagerstown MD, then Lebanon TN, followed by Henrietta OK, then Albuquerque NM, and finally Las Vegas NV. Cross country moving!


Israeli drivers are weird. Not rude but weird. They do not look backwards. Merging, changing lanes, walking, they never look backwards. It's expected that you will accommodate their move.

However they also don't get upset if you are in front of them and then do any of the above either, as that is what is expected.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

Israeli drivers are weird. Not rude but weird. They do not look backwards. Merging, changing lanes, walking, they never look backwards. It's expected that you will accommodate their move.

However they also don't get upset if you are in front of them and then do any of the above either, as that is what is expected.

A proper Italian driver rips out his rear view mirror as his first act... at least in a proper race.

"What's behind me...is not important!"


Grey Lensman wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

TN is best crossed in a single day, during daylight with clear or only a light overcast.

Alternatively (going east to west), stop on the west side of Knoxville, then the following morning make a mad dash into AR by dinner time.

I made it to Lebanon, and got hammered by the gridlock the next day. But thankfully I did at least manage to make it out of the state and the next night I was in Oklahoma.

Started in Plattsburgh NY, then spent the first night in Hagerstown MD, then Lebanon TN, followed by Henrietta OK, then Albuquerque NM, and finally Las Vegas NV. Cross country moving!

I'd expect a coast-to-coast move by car to take six days. Takes two days or a ridiculously long day to go from D.C. to Little Rock, AR.

Hopefully you had some decent scenery on your drive west!


Turin the Mad wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

TN is best crossed in a single day, during daylight with clear or only a light overcast.

Alternatively (going east to west), stop on the west side of Knoxville, then the following morning make a mad dash into AR by dinner time.

I made it to Lebanon, and got hammered by the gridlock the next day. But thankfully I did at least manage to make it out of the state and the next night I was in Oklahoma.

Started in Plattsburgh NY, then spent the first night in Hagerstown MD, then Lebanon TN, followed by Henrietta OK, then Albuquerque NM, and finally Las Vegas NV. Cross country moving!

I'd expect a coast-to-coast move by car to take six days. Takes two days or a ridiculously long day to go from D.C. to Little Rock, AR.

Hopefully you had some decent scenery on your drive west!

Your assessment isn't far off - it took me two days to go from Maryland to Oklahoma, and I stopped in Las Vegas (which is half a day away from the coast). Although if it had been summer I would have been able to make the drive in 4 days, as the faster route over the Great Lakes wouldn't have had the risk for being snowed in.

And back to the topic at hand, there is very, very little that could happen which would make me not vote for Clinton this year. I'd rather not, but I no longer just consider Trump unfit to be the American president. With him trying to rile his followers up for riots if he loses (telling them he either wins or the election was stolen) I consider him unfit to be an American citizen. All I have to do is look at Turkey and I see what kind of president Trump wants to be - he doesn't seem to want to be the leader of the country, but the ruler. A very un-American concept.


Having visited most of the states, the quality of driver depends on your style of driving. For me, the best drivers thus far are those in the South, which tend to go a little slower at times in the rural areas, and are also excessively polite and let people in (to the point of annoyance for Northern drivers).

The drivers in the big cities (like Atlanta or Tampa) vary between the good drivers of the rural areas, and the more frentic drivers of the Northeast.

The most aggressive, and almost the worst ones of the bunch are those from the Northeast US. They have NO CONCEPT of stopping spacing, and like to tailgate.

Idaho and drivers in that area of the Nation are almost the same as Northeast drivers...and infuriating when trying to get out of a crowded parking lot after an event. Something that would take a mere hour in the South the get everyone out and home will take 3 to 4 hours in Idaho/Montana areas or the Northeast...which lowers my idea of just how good they are in driving.

On the otherhand, they beat drivers in most of the Middle East any day of the week.

New Jersey isn't that bad as far as North East drivers go. I've had relatively pleasant driving experiences in New Jersey...the only thing that takes getting used to in NJ are the Jugheads. Those can turn out of state drivers that are normally polite...into very insanely roadraging maniacs.

Utah drivers between Mid Utah and South Salt Lake are probably the worst drivers I've seen. Wait until a rainstorm and you'll have multiple multi car accidents in a 20 mile stretch. They have no idea how to drive on wet highways.

California, the Midwest, and the Northwest all vary in degrees, but aren't the worst by any means. I'd rather be in a traffic jam in Indianapolis than New York city any day, and drivers are far more polite in San Francisco traffic Jams than in New York (or Baltimore, if you consider that North East...some might not).

Just my personal opinion on ranking drivers in the US. However, from best to worst in driving quality varies FAR more greatly in Europe and the Middle East.

Overall, I had a thought the other day when I was hitting the mountains in the Western US on my way to hike into those areas to take some measurements/recordings..

The other day, I was annoyed by this driver that drove around 30 miles over the speed limit on flat ground. We hit the mountains in the West, and I overtook this driver and had to pass them on the mountains. They were slowing down at EVERY curve by 20 miles under the speed limit, as if they had NO IDEA how to drive on a curvy mountain road.

Not necessarily true, but at the time I thought, perhaps how well one can drive in the mountains indicates driving ability.

There are those that KNOW they can't handle the curves, and slow down like that driver. However, then they speed like demons elsewhere...these people can't drive.

There are others that think they can take the curves, and go over the side of the mountain. Tragic, but to many people think they can drive but can't.

Then there are those who take the curves well, and even if they are closer (almost tailgating perhaps), many of them know their car limits and what it can do without killing themselves in the process, and obeying the rules of the road at the same time.

As I said at the beginning however, what you consider good or bad probably depends on what style of driving you have. If you are a more aggressive Northern US driver, those in the South may be the worst drivers to you, as they go too slow and stop for any little thing. Meanwhile those in California may think those in Washington are terrible as they don't have any consideration that those in California may consider essential (and of course, vice versa with Washington drivers feeling that California drivers are far too terrible for Washington roads). It's all a matter of how you drive and perspective.


When I really think about it, my biggest issue with TN drivers wasn't the people in cars, as they weren't unusual - it was the number of stupid drivers in things with 18 wheels that truly stood out. I have never seen that many idiots in trucks before or since. I think I hadn't seen that many in 40 years that I did in those 2 days (well, 2 half-days) in Tennessee.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, car and truck drivers I haven't had a problem down here really.

18 Wheelers on the other hand are apparently 90% f~*#ing morons.


The absolute worst drivers I've seen on the road, California bikers.


Facts do not support your claim
Accidents per capita. Massachusetts and Connecticut are some of the best states. Jersey and New York are both better than average.
Daily Beast has them more ordered

Liberty's Edge

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Your facts loose to our truthiness and state based chauvinism!

Liberty's Edge

Accidents per capita. Not dickbags per capita.

All that means is us Nutmeggers are better at not causing crashes!


Caineach wrote:

Facts do not support your claim

Accidents per capita. Massachusetts and Connecticut are some of the best states. Jersey and New York are both better than average.
Daily Beast has them more ordered

Interesting if you start comparing the populations to driving miles.

If I'm not botching my match, it looks like the proportion is about 9.5 billion driving miles for every 1 million population.

New York and other states have a disproportionately low amount of driving miles (and corresponding lower fatality rates) while North Dakota and other states have a disproportionately high amount of driving miles (with higher fatality rates).

And of course there's exceptions to this rule, like Alaska.

So I guess the actual thing to take away is that, in general, the more actual driving a state hosts, the more fatalities it has =P

(Though statistics for non-fatal crashes could interesting. I'd expect New York or California to take the prize for non-fatal crashes...)


Finding something more recent than 2013 that is quickly decipherable is maddening.

However, in 2013:

~33k vehicle fatalities in the U.S.
~2.3 million injuries from car wrecks in the U.S.

This resource doesn't break down non-fatal accidents by state, only fatal ones. It would interesting to see a state-by-state breakdown, as Zhangar indicates. :)

Liberty's Edge

Well, obviously all those accidents were caused by members of [Insert disliked political party of your choice here]!


*Laughing*

Oh, the circus continues on the interwebz. If it wasn't so important, it would be bad comedy. ;)

Liberty's Edge

* Throws peanuts at Turin.

Boooo!


Who says bad comedy isn't an indicator for what's important? The worse the comedy, the more obvious the importance! :P


It gets better in this poll.

Deeper into the article shows several different polls. Granted, apply a chunk of salt to all polling data as the response rate these days is appallingly low (~8%).

*feeds peanuts to the Sharkticons* ;)


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Well, the McClatchy sample size was also very, very small, so, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Full disclosure, if the McClatchy numbers are true in the general election and we end up in a situation where Trump loses, Clinton wins and the Green and Libertarian parties get minor party public funding status for the next election, I'd be fine with that.


Hitdice wrote:

Well, the McClatchy sample size was also very, very small, so, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Full disclosure, if the McClatchy numbers are true in the general election and we end up in a situation where Trump loses, Clinton wins and the Green and Libertarian parties get minor party public funding status for the next election, I'd be fine with that.

I'd be right as rain with that, too.


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Hitdice wrote:

Well, the McClatchy sample size was also very, very small, so, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Full disclosure, if the McClatchy numbers are true in the general election and we end up in a situation where Trump loses, Clinton wins and the Green and Libertarian parties get minor party public funding status for the next election, I'd be fine with that.

I'd be ecstatic with that, but it's not what the poll or the article actually suggests.

That's all "among young people". Trump's got plenty of strength elsewhere. Likely not enough to win, but falling below 40 would be shocking and below 30 would be "live boy or dead girl" territory.


TheJeff, forgive me my earlier, intemperate response. I was overstressed, and have since deleted the post; still friends?


Hitdice wrote:
TheJeff, forgive me my earlier, intemperate response. I was overstressed, and have since deleted the post; still friends?

Ummmm, I guess? I have no idea what you're talking about, so I assume I missed the post completely and wouldn't have known to be upset if you hadn't said anything. So now I'm mostly confused.


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Trump officially endorses Paul Ryan and other Republican incumbents (while also blasting the way the system benefits insiders like, y'know, incumbents), and says he wants to be the 'big tent party'.

That's nice, and I could almost believe it if he hadn't spent the last few months insulting pretty much everyone. As it is... nope.


Rednal wrote:
I could almost believe

It will be interesting to see how the "Trump guys" in those elections respond to his backpedaling


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Set wrote:
Ajaxis wrote:
In these days of absentee voting, and early voting, it would work wonders to get everybody voting.

While I don't think compulsory voting would work here (the fine would serve as yet another tax on poor people who *can't* take a day off to vote, for whatever reason), the notion of making Election Day a federal holiday (if it replaced Labor Day, every Republican would vote for it!), and giving a lot more people the day off, could be an option.

That said, the people who are most hindered from getting to the polls by their jobs and financial situation would be the one's least likely to get the day off anyway, since McDonalds and Bob's Auto Repair don't generally give holidays off (let alone paid holidays), so I'm probably just re-arranging deck chairs...

For a country that prides itself on being the world's Shining Bastion of Democracy/Republic, it oughtta be a crime that voting isn't an all-business mandatory holiday. Paid day off for everyone, unless you provide some essential service like power generation. In which case, employees can take shifts so that everyone has the true freedom to vote.


That is why absentee / mail-in balloting exists.

'course, two new holidays might as well be added to the calendar: Election Day and Super Bowl Day, to be observed the same as Thanksgiving: half a day off on Sunday, all day off on Monday, for "recuperation". ;)


CrystalSeas wrote:
Rednal wrote:
I could almost believe
It will be interesting to see how the "Trump guys" in those elections respond to his backpedaling

An interesting figure I came across, right now without a link. 70% or less of the nominal 'Trumpkin' vote, he loses. 74%+ is when there is trouble in Paradise.

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