Is there a way to make a spear combatant ala Achilles from the movie Troy or any of the Spartans from 300? Armed with a spear and a shield and armor? Spears are considered two handed weapons so no shield larger than a buckler, which those mentioned above did not use. A shortspear does not do justice to the concept either. Just wondering if there is a PFS legal archetype to allow a spear one handed and use a shield with a survivable build?
Shortspear is a one handed weapon.
The Phalanx archetype for fighters will do it. I remember hearing about some new feat for this too, but can't find it.
Spear Dancing Style (Combat, Style)
You can use polearms and spears as double weapons.
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon.
Benefit(s): Choose one weapon from the polearm or spear fighter weapon groups. While using this style, you grant the chosen weapon the double special weapon feature, using the weapon's normal statistics for its main-hand end and the statistics of a light mace for its off-hand end.
A weapon wielded in this way loses the brace and reach special weapon features.
Special: A character with the weapon training (polearms or spears) class feature can use Spear Dancing Style with any polearm or spear, respectively, in addition to the chosen weapon.
I had an idea of doing this with a rogue and the Elven Branch Spear. This would be an amazing character that gets to be almost entirely SAD Dex based with very little investment required. I would love to see if anyone had similar ideas for brainstorming.
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You could also use trident and shield.
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Is there a way to make a spear combatant ala Achilles from the movie Troy or any of the Spartans from 300? Armed with a spear and a shield and armor? Spears are considered two handed weapons so no shield larger than a buckler, which those mentioned above did not use. A shortspear does not do justice to the concept either. Just wondering if there is a PFS legal archetype to allow a spear one handed and use a shield with a survivable build?
Just buy a doru spear. It is from Distant Shores, and it is PFS legal. It is based on the Greek hoplite spears that you are describing. It can be used as a simple weapon, but gets better as you get higher proficiencies.
* If you have proficiency with simple weapons then it works exactly like a normal spear.
* If you have proficiency with martial weapons then you can wield it as a one-handed weapon while reducing the critical multiplier to x2.
* If you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (doru), then it is exactly like a normal spear except it can be wielded as a one-handed weapon.
The doru makes all sorts of fun combinations possible. Spear and shield is one, and TWF with a doru and shortspear is another.
I find it odd that people forget spears can be wielded one-handed, or that shields can be carried over the arm, not in the hand.
Try finding rules for using a 15foot pike and a shield like the Macedonian Phalanxes did.
I find it odd that people forget spears can be wielded one-handed, or that shields can be carried over the arm, not in the hand.
Try finding rules for using a 15foot pike and a shield like the Macedonian Phalanxes did.
1. Take Shield Brace and Lunge.
2. ????
3. Win
Be a phalanx fighter.
Use a buckler.
Duel wield spears.
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Alright- so here is the feat tree I am looking at for my "Leonidas" character, assuming 20 levels of fighter:
1- Fleet/Imp init/ Power attack
2- wpn focus short spear
3- blindfight
4- wpn spec- Shortspear
6- Alertness/ Shield Focus
8- Greater wpn focus- SS
9- Critical Focus/ Improved Crit
10 Shield Spec
12 Greater wpn spec- short spear/ Penetrating strike
14 Greater shield spec
15 Skill Focus- Diplomacy
16 Greater penetrating strike
18 PersuasiveDidn't choose for level 20 yet as beyond 8 it's all probably going to change anyway. I took some of the "softskill" feats for Leonidas seeing how he will probably become the leader of the group and his role in the Kingmaker campaign.
To add on to what some of the others here have said, My DM was nudging me either towards ranger or to get TWF as a fighter.
I find several issues with this build:
1. No Advanced Weapon Training.
2. No Advanced Armor Training.
3. Too many feats spent on weapon damage and accuracy while that isn't your main problem.
Here's how I'd make the same type of build you made, with some smart building:
- For stats, look to start off with 18 STR, 15 DEX and 14 CON. Dump INT HARD, keep okay WIS, get some CHA.
- For armor, get o-yoroi armor as soon as possible. Refluff it as flexible greek proto-full plate.
- For feats:
1. Power Attack - you want damage.
Human. Shield Focus - bare with me.
Bonus 1. Shield Brace - allows you to use a 2H polearm with a shield in your hand. Now you can grab a Spear, use it 2H and still dish out good damage while holding your shield up.
Bonus 2. Quick Draw - always useful in case you want to chuck a spear at, say, Xerxes, and then draw another.
3. Advanced Armor Training > Adaptable Training > Profession (soldier) - can't miss this in Leonidas.
Pip. +1 DEX - round off DEX at 16.
Bonus 4. Shield Specialization - now your CMD is off the charts.
Weapon Training I > Thrown - it works for Spears, and has better options for the Versatile Training AWT.
5. Advanced Weapon Training > Versatile Training > Intimidate, Perception - gives you some nice boost to skills.
Bonus 6. Improved Bravery - cover up your Will saves, be more heroic.
7. Advanced Armor Training > Armored Juggernaut - cause you want to be an immovable wall.
Pip. +1 STR.
Bonus 8. Inspiring Bravery - allows you to fulfill your role as a leader in battle and inspire your teammates.
Weapon Training II > Advanced Weapon Training > Weapon Mastery > Ricochet Toss - now you can throw your spear in combat and have it bounce back right into your hand!
9. Two-Handed Thrower - so it deals more damage when you do.
Bonus 10. Advanced Weapon Training > Fighter's Reflexes - covers an usual weakness. By this time, you should have Gloves of Dueling to really boost your damage, so this grants them the extra bonus of boosting your Reflex saves too.
11. Advanced Armor Training > Armor Specialization - a ton of AC to be a true wall.
Pip. +1 STR.
Bonus 12. Improved Critical - why not, right?
I don't know why anyone would not take Shield Brace if they qualify for it to play a spear/shield character.
I don't know why anyone would not take Shield Brace if they qualify for it to play a spear/shield character.
Shield Bashing focus.
I appreciate all the input and suggestions. My intent is to find a playable build that allows the spearman to stand in the front line and survive while dealing decent damage for PFS.
I looked at the Phalanx archetype (not a fan of the lack of Weapon Training).
I also looked at the Dragoon archetype, the Mounted Combat and Skill Focus: Ride FEATS are kind of a waste for PFS. The damage is good though (Spear Training) and the AC would be good as well. It would necessitate getting some sort of mithral armor and shield to compensate for the lack of full Armor Training and the Shield Bash penalty.
I also looked at the Viking Archetype for the simple fact of the bonuses it receives for using a shield. The shield bonus is very nice although they lose Weapon training for Rage which I feel is situational and a close second to overall spear damage compared to the Dragoon.
The FEATS selected will include (in no particular order) Power Attack, Furious Focus, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus, Spear Dancer, Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization, and Phalanx Formation.
I looked at the Longspear over the Doru for the Spear Dancer Feat which the Doru does not qualify for.
Now to decide if he is a horseman or some sort of spear rager for the build archetype.
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I tried dumping INT hard but then I had only 1 skill point to spend each level, which wasn't working.
Advanced Weapon Training > Versatile Training and Advanced Armor Training > Adaptable Training take care of that. Check my build yo.
how sold are you on a spear directly?
A trident very simular to your spear
He wants to use Spear Dancer so he's limited to two-handed reach weapons.
So I decided on the Dragoon archetype for Fighters.
his stats come to be:
STR:18 (+2 human) DEX:14, CON:15, INT:12, WIS:10 CHA:7
Traits: Defender of the Society and Seeker.
Feat progression is:
Human: Shield Focus
Dragoon Bonus:Mounted Combat, Skill Focus: Ride
lvl1: Shield Brace (at lvl 1 with Scale mail and heavy shield AC is 21; attack with Longspear is 1d8+6)
Ftr2: Power Attack
lvl3: Weapon Focus- Longspear
Ftr4: Weapon Specialization- Longspear
lvl5: Toughness
Ftr6: Improved Initiative
lvl7: Iron Will
Ftr8: Greater Weapon Focus- Longspear
lvl9: Greater Shield Focus
Ftr10: Missile Shield
lvl11: Dodge
Ftr12: Greater Weapon Specialization- Longspear
At lvl 12 with a regular Longspear his attacks are +22/+17/+12 and +17 to damage OR +18/+13/+8 and +29 to damage using power attack. With non magical scale mail and heavy shield his AC is 28.
Thanks for all the input.
If I was going for a classical Spartan hoplite feel with Shield Brace, I'd mix some Barbarian or Bloodrager into Fighter with some Extra Rage. Rage and a furious weapon goes a long way toward making up for one-handing (especially when you're also getting Fighter bonuses), and 'trained rage' is a pretty perfect flavor. Scarred Rager, Urban Bloodrager or Unchained Barbarian all have advantages.
I thought about the Viking archetype for fighter and RPing him as a raging Achilles type character but did not like the AC penalty.
Urban Bloodrager and Urban Barbarian both eliminate the AC penalty. Viking also effectively eliminates the AC penalty by level 7 thanks to the shield bonus, but Viking isn't nearly as powerful as multiclassing, since with multiclassing you can get both Rage and Weapon Training.
Going Urban Bloodrager 1 or Urban Barbarian 1 with Fighter and using some of your many feats to pick up some Extra Rage means that you get all the typical benefits of being a Fighter (-1 level) plus a special Rage that doesn't drop AC. With a Furious weapon it's overall worth +3 to attack and damage when one-handed without any real drawback. Also, Armor Training and Fast Movement allows 40ft movement in mithral heavy armor if you have both features.
While it's quite feat-heavy, with a starting DEX of 15 you could pick up Improved Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style and Two-Weapon Fighting to add a 1.5xSTR "punch" to every full attack (call it a body-slam or a headbutt or a shield-punch or whatever); the reach difference can be overcome with 5ft step and/or lunge, and a Furious Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes solves the enhancement issue. Depending on the Fighter Archetype you can eventually pick up a second Weapon Training at about the time you can afford Gloves of Dueling. It's a little complex to build, but being able to pull combos like spearing someone and then stepping up and bashing them with your shield-arm is pretty great.
I tried dumping INT hard but then I had only 1 skill point to spend each level, which wasn't working.Advanced Weapon Training > Versatile Training and Advanced Armor Training > Adaptable Training take care of that. Check my build yo.
Seriously, 4 skill points a level - and that's at level 5, after an even rockier start - is adequate if you're not ambitious but no better. It's not terribly flexible as written and it's not cost-free either, you'd lose a feat + most of armor training 1 for that.
@BadBird- i looked at adding 1 lvl of Bloodrager Urban archetype. I would lose GWF at 12th lvl but controlled rage + etra rage feat is a nice boon to have.
You can't trade away armour training 1. It is either a feat or you can start at level 7.
OK, 4 skill points at 7th with an even more rocky start. My general point is strengthened by this not weakened.
I'm actually playing a 12 lvl spear and shield fighter in the carrion crown campaign
My DM and I had a talk about it and agreed that if I spent a feat he would allow me to use a spear one handed as an exotic weapon
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Is there a way to make a spear combatant ala Achilles from the movie Troy or any of the Spartans from 300? Armed with a spear and a shield and armor? Spears are considered two handed weapons so no shield larger than a buckler, which those mentioned above did not use. A shortspear does not do justice to the concept either. Just wondering if there is a PFS legal archetype to allow a spear one handed and use a shield with a survivable build?
For starters, you can actually take an undersized longspear or spear, and wield it one-handed (with no loss to special rules, like reach...) with a shield. Main loss is that as a weapon wielded in one hand it won't deal the 1.5x strength, and the undersizing further reduced the damage die, plus adds a penalty on attack rolls. So, while an option, it really isn't a very good option.
As for Archetypes, the Phalanx Soldier from APG is a fighter archetype which can wield a spear and shield fighting style. Definitely designed along the lines of the 300 spartans.
Another fitting fighter archetype, would be the Viking from People of the North. Doesn't grant anything for spears, but very much fits the flavor of the Spartans' insane courage and focuses on a shield and lighter armor fighting style. This archetype gains barbarian rage at 4th level, which very much fits with spartans from that movie. You'd have to use the undersized spear route here, but the rage would negate most of the losses (plus you'd be be able to shield bash better).
The Barbarian Titan Mauler archetype can wield any two-handed weapon in one hand (at major penalty). You could certainly try this route.
Beyond those, I think any class with rage/strength increases and full BAB would fit the concept of spartans from 300. Give them a shield, a sword, and an undersized spear and they'd fit perfectly.
So I decided on the Dragoon archetype for Fighters.
his stats come to be:
STR:18 (+2 human) DEX:14, CON:15, INT:12, WIS:10 CHA:7
Traits: Defender of the Society and Seeker.
Feat progression is:
Human: Shield Focus
Dragoon Bonus:Mounted Combat, Skill Focus: Ride
lvl1: Shield Brace (at lvl 1 with Scale mail and heavy shield AC is 21; attack with Longspear is 1d8+6)
Ftr2: Power Attack
lvl3: Weapon Focus- Longspear
Ftr4: Weapon Specialization- Longspear
lvl5: Toughness
Ftr6: Improved Initiative
lvl7: Iron Will
Ftr8: Greater Weapon Focus- Longspear
lvl9: Greater Shield Focus
Ftr10: Missile Shield
lvl11: Dodge
Ftr12: Greater Weapon Specialization- LongspearAt lvl 12 with a regular Longspear his attacks are +22/+17/+12 and +17 to damage OR +18/+13/+8 and +29 to damage using power attack. With non magical scale mail and heavy shield his AC is 28.
Thanks for all the input.
Being the longspear a reach weapon, how is no one advising combat reflexes? Does shield brace prevent it?
Shield Brace requires Shield Focus, and either BAB +3 or Fighter level 1, if I'm not mistaken.
I can't find Shield Brace on the PRD or PFSRD or Archives of Nethys. Can anyone clarify its prerequisites?
It's from Armor Master's Handbook which can out too recently to be posted on those sites.
Shield Brace requires Shield Focus, and either BAB +3 or Fighter level 1, if I'm not mistaken.
And proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Well yeah, obviously since that's what you need for shield focus.
Shield Brace requires Shield Focus, and either BAB +3 or Fighter level 1, if I'm not mistaken.And proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Shield Brace specifically lists them as prerequisites so I mentioned them for completeness.
Perhaps there is some archetype or combination of archetypes that would enable a character to have Shield Focus and proficiency with bucklers without needing to have proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.