# Weapons 2 sizes larger?

### Rules Questions

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So if I read it correctly, if I am medium sized character I can wield a huge weapon at a -4 penalty? Its only -2 for each size larger?

If I am a titan mauler then the massive weapon bonus only applies for weapons 1 size larger?

Increasing and Decreasing Weapon Damage by Size
-4 -3 -2 -1 MED +1 +2 +3 +4
---------------------------------------------------
0 0 0 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8
0 0 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6
0 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 3d6
1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 3d6 4d6
1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 3d6 4d6 6d6
1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d8 3d8 4d8 6d8
1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 3d6 4d6 6d6 8d6
1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 2d4 2d6 3d6 4d6 6d6
1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d6 3d6 4d6 6d6 8d6
1d6 1d8 1d10 2d6 2d8 3d8 4d8 6d8 8d8
1d8 1d10 2d6 2d8 2d10 4d8 6d8 8d8 12d8

Not quite. If you are medium you can wield a huge light weapon. It must be light because every size increase also increases the category (and therefore number of hands you need). It goes light->one-handed->two-handed. A huge one-handed weapon goes off the chart, and therefore you can't wield it (as a medium creature).

Massive Weapons wrote:
At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. She can use two-handed weapons meant for creatures one size category larger, but the penalty for doing so is increased by 4. However, the attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0). This ability replaces trap sense.

I see no restriction on the attack penalty reduction except "weapons too large for her size". It should work with other, not two-handed weapons.

So then how would it work if I wanted to wield a huge great sword? Or is that even possible? Its more or less for a character concept.

So then by the way you word it with the titan mauler I can wield a large great sword and the reduction would apply?

Micheal Smith wrote:

So then how would it work if I wanted to wield a huge great sword? Or is that even possible? Its more or less for a character concept.

So then by the way you word it with the titan mauler I can wield a large great sword and the reduction would apply?

You cannot wield any two handed weapon that is larger than your normal size. In 3.5 Races with Powerful Build could but that only allowed you to use weapons one size larger than yourself without penalty.

As a titan mauler though you can use a large size two handed weapon (assuming your character is a medium race) at a penalty modified by the Massive Weapons ability for your barbarian level.

At level 3 you could use a large size two handed weapon at a -5.
At level 6 you could use a large size two handed weapon at a -4.
At level 9 you could use a large size two handed weapon at a -3.
At level 12 you could use a large size two handed weapon at a -2.
At level 15 you could use a large size two handed weapon at a -1.
And at level 18 you could use a large size two handed weapon at no penalty,

Titan maulers can never use Huge 2 handed or even 1 handed weapons. No medium character can.

Awesome thanks. I didn't realize what Bob Bob Bob said was how it worked. And that was going to be my next question, in regards to the penalties. Sweet. Well even though my build isn't quite the way I want it, this will work.

So we can't say never, there might be 3rd party stuff out there somewhere that allows it. Additionally, an Enlarge Person spell would let a Titan Mauler use a Huge Greatsword, but only while they were enlarged. Fortunately, at 14th level Titan Maulers get the ability to do that. Otherwise everything Gilfalas said looks correct

If you have thunder and fang yoi can wield a huge two handed earthbreaker.

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Pretty sure that wasn't the intent. "You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon" is not the same as it actually being a one handed weapon.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Additionally, an Enlarge Person spell would let a Titan Mauler use a Huge Greatsword, but only while they were enlarged.

Except that Enlarge Person also enlarges the target's equipment (so when the enlarged Titan Mauler tries to pick up the huge greatsword, it becomes a gargantuan one he can't wield). Unless what you had in mind is that the Titan's Mauler large greatsword becomes huge while the Titan Mauler is affected by Enlarge Person and wielding it.

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CWheezy wrote:
If you have thunder and fang yoi can wield a huge two handed earthbreaker.

More precisely, expect table variance on this huge two handed earth breaker concept.

Khudzlin wrote:
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Additionally, an Enlarge Person spell would let a Titan Mauler use a Huge Greatsword, but only while they were enlarged.
Except that Enlarge Person also enlarges the target's equipment (so when the enlarged Titan Mauler tries to pick up the huge greatsword, it becomes a gargantuan one he can't wield). Unless what you had in mind is that the Titan's Mauler large greatsword becomes huge while the Titan Mauler is affected by Enlarge Person and wielding it.

Actually enlarge person only affects the stuff you're currently carrying. So if you put down the greatsword, get hit with EL, and then pick the greatsword back up its size wouldn't change.

Rysky wrote:
Actually enlarge person only affects the stuff you're currently carrying. So if you put down the greatsword, get hit with EL, and then pick the greatsword back up its size wouldn't change.
Quote:
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

The spell description doesn't say that only the equipment worn or carried at the time of casting is affected. Also, since items that leave an enlarged character's possession revert to their normal size, it makes more sense to have items picked up by the character become enlarged as well (items are enlarged as long as they are carried or worn by an enlarged character). Under your interpretation, disarming an enlarged character makes their weapon mostly useless (reduced damage, penalty for inappropriate size) to them for the remaining duration of the spell.

Khudzlin wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Actually enlarge person only affects the stuff you're currently carrying. So if you put down the greatsword, get hit with EL, and then pick the greatsword back up its size wouldn't change.
Quote:
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.
The spell description doesn't say that only the equipment worn or carried at the time of casting is affected. Also, since items that leave an enlarged character's possession revert to their normal size, it makes more sense to have items picked up by the character become enlarged as well (items are enlarged as long as they are carried or worn by an enlarged character). Under your interpretation, disarming an enlarged character makes their weapon mostly useless (reduced damage, penalty for inappropriate size) to them for the remaining duration of the spell.

Uh, no. It says so in the first sentence you qouted. And then it also says anything the leaves their possession returns to their original size.

Rysky wrote:
Uh, no. It says so in the first sentence you qouted.

It doesn't say that. There's no reason the first sentence doesn't apply to equipment carried or worn at any time during the spell's duration. When a character picks up an item, it obviously becomes carried by the character.

Khudzlin wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Uh, no. It says so in the first sentence you qouted.
It doesn't say that. There's no reason the first sentence doesn't apply to equipment carried or worn at any time during the spell's duration. When a character picks up an item, it obviously becomes carried by the character.

Yes it becomes "carried" but it wasn't carried at the time of the casting, hence it doesn't become enlarged.

To put it another way nothing in the spell says stuff you pick up is enlarged.

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Rysky wrote:
Actually enlarge person only affects the stuff you're currently carrying. So if you put down the greatsword, get hit with EL, and then pick the greatsword back up its size wouldn't change.

+1

I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.

Khudzlin wrote:
I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.

The fact that it's a spell?

James Risner wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
If you have thunder and fang yoi can wield a huge two handed earthbreaker.
More precisely, expect table variance on this huge two handed earth breaker concept.

No more table variation, thanks to the Campaign Clarifications document.

The feat now works as intended.

Home GMs can of course ignore whatever they want.

Tital Mauler + Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword = huge bastard sword used two handed.

Or, play a dwarven Titan Mauler and use a huge dwarven axe.

Snowlilly wrote:
Tital Mauler + Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword = huge bastard sword used two handed.

This doesn't work.

"She can use two-handed weapons meant for creatures one size category larger"

Bastard sword with exotic proficiency is a one-handed weapon. Since it's not a two-handed weapon meant for large creatures aka a large two-handed weapon, it doesn't work with this ability.

Chess Pwn wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Tital Mauler + Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword = huge bastard sword used two handed.

This doesn't work.

"She can use two-handed weapons meant for creatures one size category larger"

Bastard sword with exotic proficiency is a one-handed weapon. Since it's not a two-handed weapon meant for large creatures aka a large two-handed weapon, it doesn't work with this ability.

Anyone with the exotic weapon proficiency can wield a large bastard sword in two hands.

The titan mauler can wield a weapon one size category larger.

Or are you arguing that the titan mauler suffers additional penalties for two handing a large bastard sword that other classes do not suffer (i.e. a -4 penalty instead of the standard -2 penalty any other class takes) while still being unable to use a weapon one size category larger than that used by any other class.

Spoiler:
Yes, that penalty is reduced to -3, and the titan mauler breaks even at 6th level. I still doubt the purpose of the errata was to make titan maulers worse than they originally were.

The titan mauler can wield large without the feat at -6 as a large THW.
The titan mauler can wield a large with the feat at -2, same as everyone.
Titan mauler cannot wield a huge one without the feat, as it's a huge THW which is too big.
Titan mauler cannot wield a huge one with the feat as it's a huge one handed weapon. AKA, not a large two handed weapon which is "a two handed weapon meant for one size larger." So while a large character could wield a huge bastard sword with the feat as an Inappropriately sized TH weapon, it doesn't fall under the titan maulers ability, as it's not meant as a large THW.

So it's because the ability is not, "can wield one size larger than normal", but "can wield a THW meant for one size larger" that stops bastard swords from benefiting.

Chess Pwn wrote:

So it's because the ability is not, "can wield one size larger than normal", but "can wield a THW meant for one size larger" that stops bastard swords from benefiting.

No difference in game.

You are arguing the titan mauler is restricted to the same size weapon as everyone else, even after the errata.

Snowlilly wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

So it's because the ability is not, "can wield one size larger than normal", but "can wield a THW meant for one size larger" that stops bastard swords from benefiting.

No difference in game.

You are arguing the titan mauler is restricted to the same size weapon as everyone else, even after the errata.

No. He's saying a medium titam mauler can wield a large two-handed weapon (categorized as a two-handed weapon), which normally is impossible.

But, a huge bastard sword is not a large two-handed weapon...it is a huge one handed weapon. Even though the weapon takes the same handedness of a large two-handed weapon, it does not make it one.

Snowlilly wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

So it's because the ability is not, "can wield one size larger than normal", but "can wield a THW meant for one size larger" that stops bastard swords from benefiting.

No difference in game.

You are arguing the titan mauler is restricted to the same size weapon as everyone else, even after the errata.

Barb can wield a medium greatsword no penalties.

Barb can wield a large longsword at -2 like everyone else.
Barb can wield a large greatsword at -6 because it is a THW meant for one size larger.
Barb cannot wield a Huge Longsword, as it's not a THW meant for one size larger. Even though a large character can wield it as an INNAPROPRIATE sized THW it's still not MEANT for them. It's meant as a one handed huge weapon.

Barb can wield a huge dagger as a THW at -4 like everyone else.
Barb cannot wield a gargantuan dagger, as it's not a THW meant for a large character. Since a large character would be taking inappropriate size penalties to wield it it's not meant as a THW for them.

Nefreet wrote:
James Risner wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
If you have thunder and fang yoi can wield a huge two handed earthbreaker.
More precisely, expect table variance on this huge two handed earth breaker concept.

No more table variation, thanks to the Campaign Clarifications document.

The feat now works as intended.

Home GMs can of course ignore whatever they want.

Thats pfs only right? Pfs has lots of dumb rules so thus doesnt surprise me.

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It is a PFS document (hence why I stated, "Home GMs can of course ignore whatever they want"), but it's how the creator of the feat always intended it to work.

Interpretations such as "Huge-sized Earthbreakers" and "Dual-wielding Earthbreakers" are purely player creations.

 Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

CWheezy wrote:
Thats pfs only right? Pfs has lots of dumb rules so thus doesnt surprise me.

See, that's how we are different. I think it's not wise to use some of the more liberal interpretations. They lead to bad things. Like huge two handed earth breakers.

Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.
The fact that it's a spell?

It's a spell with a duration, not an instantaneous one.

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Khudzlin wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.
The fact that it's a spell?
It's a spell with a duration, not an instantaneous one.

Yes, but nowhere does it say that it continually enlarges things that you pick up after the spell has been cast.

Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.
The fact that it's a spell?
It's a spell with a duration, not an instantaneous one.
Yes, but nowhere does it say that it continually enlarges things that you pick up after the spell has been cast.

This is why it always perplexed me why anyone would want to have a permanencied Enlarge Person cast on them.

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Nefreet wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Khudzlin wrote:
I still don't see where you get "at the time of the casting" from the spell description.
The fact that it's a spell?
It's a spell with a duration, not an instantaneous one.
Yes, but nowhere does it say that it continually enlarges things that you pick up after the spell has been cast.
This is why it always perplexed me why anyone would want to have a permanencied Enlarge Person cast on them.

Compensating.

 Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Nefreet wrote:
This is why it always perplexed me why anyone would want to have a permanence Enlarge Person cast on them.

Generally you do this when your gear set is large/huge as desired and you drop it so you can pick it up and it's "normal" now.

James Risner wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
This is why it always perplexed me why anyone would want to have a permanence Enlarge Person cast on them.
Generally you do this when your gear set is large/huge as desired and you drop it so you can pick it up and it's "normal" now.

In fact, this is the Iconic Antipaladin for Hell's Vengeance whole shtick (he's a Duergar).

If you want a huge weapon that's still "big", go for a huge Sunblade. A sunblade is wielded as if it were a shortsword (a light weapon) while still doing the damage of a bastard sword. So you can wield a huge Sunblade as a virtual 2-h weapon dealing 3d8 damage. If you get Enlarge Person on you, that goes up to 4d8 damage. Granted, a Huge Sunblade is about as long as the wingspan of a Cessna so your GM might impose a circumstantial penalty to swinging it around in a small space.

For big weapon damage, try a Large (Oak) club, with shillelagh and enlarge person.

Normal medium character with Large club 1d8 damage
Enlarge person raises weapon size by 1, for 2d6 damage
Shillelagh treats weapon as if 2 sizes larger, for 4d6 damage.

It being oversized makes it -2 to attack, but it's normally 1 handed so a normal PC can do this. Enlarge person as +2 strength, so +1 to attack and +1 damage. Shillelagh adds +1 enhancement on attack and damage rolls, so now you wield it at no penalty with +2 damage (and in two hands for 1.5x damage).

Best bit is that the club has a base cost of "-" so a large club is still free.

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Murdock Mudeater wrote:

For big weapon damage, try a Large (Oak) club, with shillelagh and enlarge person.

Normal medium character with Large club 1d8 damage
Enlarge person raises weapon size by 1, for 2d6 damage
Shillelagh treats weapon as if 2 sizes larger, for 4d6 damage.

It being oversized makes it -2 to attack, but it's normally 1 handed so a normal PC can do this. Enlarge person as +2 strength, so +1 to attack and +1 damage. Shillelagh adds +1 enhancement on attack and damage rolls, so now you wield it at no penalty with +2 damage (and in two hands for 1.5x damage).

Best bit is that the club has a base cost of "-" so a large club is still free.

Don't forget the -1 size penalty to attack rolls when you become large from enlarge person though...

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A huge greatsword would be between 16' and 32' long. Big anime swords are one thing but a sword 3-5 times as big as you is definitely something that won't work simply on muscle power. I'd also expect some problems dealing with that big a weapon.

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