Wonder Woman


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Sovereign Court

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Doubtful. They've been trying hard and still haven't topped IM1 or CA:TFA, the only movies that are better than WW or MoS.

Man of Steel was a terrible movie. And when ranking films I would put WW somewhere above hulk and both thors when it comes to quality and underneath everything else in Marvel.


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Hama wrote:
And when ranking films I would put WW somewhere above hulk and both thors when it comes to quality and underneath everything else in Marvel.

Iron Man 2 and 3 might have something to say about that... and I rank WW WELL above Ant-Man as well. And the first Captain America movie as well...


Thomas Seitz wrote:

*tries VERY hard to blot out Marcus for Carol and Phantom Rider for Bobbi*

I am hopeful for some kind of "Kree/Brood experiment thingie" and she gets super powers. But we'll see.

At least they acknowledged how bad the Marcus story was with a blatant WTF story response.

Which also had her mindwiped and depowered*. Which is where I first came across her in the X-Men. I'd actually read Claremont's response story years before I read the original, problematic one.

As for movie origin, I doubt we'll see the Brood. If they try to stick with anything like the original comics origin, they could just have Air Force officer Carol trying to stop some Kree and get heroically blown up in their device in some weird fashion. I'd rather have that than "alien experimentation".

*Speaking of, how does Rogue fit into the "how women get powers" thing? A mutant, sure, but she also stole Ms. Marvel's powers (and occasionally knowledge and bits of personality.)


thejeff,

Rogue's power set doesn't change but some times her ability to control it does. So that means she can have powers, but mostly it's just her dealing with lack of human contact.

As for her NOT having the alien experimentation, I'm not sure that works because so far the Kree haven't had a reason to come to earth other than to kill Inhumans.

Dark Archive

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thejeff wrote:
*Speaking of, how does Rogue fit into the "how women get powers" thing? A mutant, sure, but she also stole Ms. Marvel's powers (and occasionally knowledge and bits of personality.)

Mutant's a wash. The vast majority of mutants did diddly squat to gain their powers (although there's an obvious difference between those who chose to become super-heroes, those who chose to become super-villains, and those, like Cecelia Reyes, who would like to live their lives regardless of whether or not they have super-powers).

Stealing power from Carol initially feels like an agency thing, but then it turns out it was an accident, because she can't control her powers, making her, annoyingly, a victim of her own powers *and* up there on the list of 'women who can't handle power' with Jean, Wanda, etc. (various other female characters who can't handle super-powers that *men* seem to be able to handle just fine).

Annoying gender tropes abound.

That's kind of a cool thing about Wonder Woman's original origin. Yes, she came from a magical island of fantasy women. Yes, she got at least some of her powers from magical jewelry and accessories like bracelets, lasso, etc. (sometimes her tiara and earrings had powers, too). But she didn't just inherit her powers, in the original story, she competed against every other Amazon in that island for the right to gain those powers. She didn't get hit by a blast of energy, she actively chose to be a hero, and while her bling enhances her powers, her strength and speed are innate, so she's not like Green Lantern, who, without his ring, is a dude with a big ego.

Obviously I'm not a fan of 'daughter of Zeus' or 'daughter of Hercules' or 'daughter of Ares' origins. She didn't need a daddy to benevolently give the little lady powers for the first five or six decades, I don't think she needs one now.


Set,

I thought she just needed to be formed of clay and empowered by...DC Comics maybe?

But yes Jean, Wanda and Rogue are kind of in that boat together.


Set wrote:
thejeff wrote:
*Speaking of, how does Rogue fit into the "how women get powers" thing? A mutant, sure, but she also stole Ms. Marvel's powers (and occasionally knowledge and bits of personality.)

Mutant's a wash. The vast majority of mutants did diddly squat to gain their powers (although there's an obvious difference between those who chose to become super-heroes, those who chose to become super-villains, and those, like Cecelia Reyes, who would like to live their lives regardless of whether or not they have super-powers).

Stealing power from Carol initially feels like an agency thing, but then it turns out it was an accident, because she can't control her powers, making her, annoyingly, a victim of her own powers *and* up there on the list of 'women who can't handle power' with Jean, Wanda, etc. (various other female characters who can't handle super-powers that *men* seem to be able to handle just fine).

Makes sense for the mutant and accident part.

As for the not controlling her powers part, it's kind of a mutant theme. Is Rogue really in any less control than Scott? Both theoretically lack control, but basically do their thing, expect when the writer wants to make a point. Or Wanda, who's fine, except when she's a plot device.
As for Phoenix, that's sort of the point of the Phoenix. No one could control it. Scott and the others didn't do any better when they got pieces of it in the whole AvsX thing.

Maybe we just need some men with handwavy plot device level powers.


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thejeff wrote:
Maybe we just need some men with handwavy plot device level powers.

Like Franklin Richards? Or Wiccan? Even Nate Grey (until when the writer decides not) - or Sentry! (Not a fan of the lattermost...)

Ironically, two of the above are the sons of two of the mutant women with 'handwavy plot device level powers', so maybe it's genetic.
;p

Good points made all 'round, though.

Carry on!

--C.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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Franklin Richards codename should be Plot Device

Dark Archive

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Psiphyre wrote:
Like Franklin Richards? Or Wiccan? Even Nate Grey (until when the writer decides not) - or Sentry! (Not a fan of the lattermost...)

Oh, I can't stand that guy. Power of a 1000 exploding hyperboles? Because of something he drank in a scientist's lab, in the same 616 universe where smarter people have tried and failed to recreate *Captain America's* super-soldier serum that makes you improbably fit for sixty frikkin years? Whatever. My 'weakness' is that there's an even more powerful evil me, which not only doesn't deal with the problem of my wank level, but actually doubles it? Pshaw. Adam Warlock did it first, and better, loser.

Plot device powers in general bug me.

Wiccan having plot device powers, instead of more reasonable spellcasting (with Shields of the Seraphim, Bolts of Bedevilment, etc.) is another one I'm not fond of, since he's been multiple times the subject of the 'he's so powerful, we need to kill him' storyline (which came up in Children's Crusade, and again in the second Young Avengers run), which is usually assigned to uppity too-powerful women. I like the character, but if the storyline every time he appears is 'Wiccan's screwed up his deus ex machina powers again, and it's another Tuesday in Sunnydale, and we might have to kill him...,' that got old before Wiccan was even a gleam in the Vision's robot eye.

DC, to it's credit, seems less prone to this. There've been stories about out of control 'he must be stahped!' Superman or Green Lantern, but Wonder Woman doesn't get 'she's got too much power and must be put down / shown her place!' storylines. Other prominent DC heroines, like Black Canary and Hawkwoman, don't even push the needle for 'too much power,' and really, Raven is about the only one who has that sort of problem, and it's less 'she's too powerful' ('cause she really isn't) and more 'her dad's trying to corrupt her so that he can take over our dimension.'


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Psiphyre wrote:
Sentry!

Who?

Nope, nope, nope, no recollection of that terrible idea. None whatsoever.

"Hulk-calming radiation."

<Insert lengthy rant that's nothing but profanity.>

"Has always been around, we just forgot him."

Because THAT always goes over well.

"He's basically Superman with an evil facet!"

This company already had Hyperion (and his multiversal counterparts) to get its Superman on with. Or Gladiator. Or...

Dark Archive

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Cole Deschain wrote:

"He's basically Superman with an evil facet!"

This company already had Hyperion (and his multiversal counterparts) to get its Superman on with. Or Gladiator. Or...

Indeed, that's another pet peeve. There were already various other people who could fill that role, including Hyperion, and since his creator said he wanted a 'Thor' but couldn't use Thor, there were always the Thor-clones like Beta Ray Horsehead, or the dozens of other mythological figures we rarely see (Apollo, Horus, etc.) or the many other figures with similar power levels (various Eternals, various off-duty Heralds of Galactus, etc.).

'Let's create *another* Superman rip-off' is pretty much the last thing Marvel, with it's vast stable of excellent characters, needs to do, in any event. It just reeks of inadequacy, to walk past all of your excellent options and instead copy a rival company's product.

It's also funny that he's also a rip-off of Triumph, a 'forgotten' Superman-like former League member. DC's tapped that well, too. (More than once, there's also Moon Maiden, another retcon-introduced early member of the Justice League who nobody remembers...)

Ah, comics.

How about that Wonder Girl, created as an imaginary look at Wonder Woman as a teen, and later made into a real character to join the Teen Titans, living alongside Diana, and leading to the whackiest origin story muddle since Hawkman! :)


Isn't there a whole sub-forum for discussing comic books?


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Set wrote:
Many male characters invent their own origin (Iron Man, Hulk, Hank Pym, Reed Richards, etc.) while many female (or black) characters have their origin thrust upon them or handed down as a legacy by the white dude that invented it (Wasp, She-Hulk, Carol / Luke Cage, Black Goliath, War Machine, etc.).

One of the things I enjoyed about Nolan's Batman is that, for all his supposed training, the hero's exploits are only possible because of the super-gear that Morgan Freeman keeps producing for him.


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Morgan Freeman Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman Morgan Freeman Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman.

Silver Crusade

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Wonder Woman has become the highest grossing superhero origin movie ever, surpassing Sam Raimi's original Spider Man.


Rysky wrote:
Wonder Woman has become the highest grossing superhero origin movie ever, surpassing Sam Raimi's original Spider Man.

Raw totals, not accounting for inflation.

Silver Crusade

*shakes fist at inflation*

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