Paladin of Nethys?


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Scarab Sages

My cleric of Nethys just died. I enjoyed it, and am thinking a Zebra mounted follower of Nethys would be a fun replacement. No particular class in mind, but it would be fun to play a "Paladin" of Nethys. Suggestions?

This is for PFS. My PCs lean towards support characters, but I can play anything.

Sovereign Court

Not an actual Paladin, just sort of a holy warrior.

Scarab Sages

OilHorse wrote:
Not an actual Paladin, just sort of a holy warrior.

Correct. Paladin of Nethys is thematic in application. Doesn't even need to be a divine caster or even a spellcaster.


What you can do is make a Lawful Neutral character who tries to follow a Paladin code. Since it will have no mechanics behind it, you could make your own. Warpriest would work nicely.

Dark Archive

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Cavalier could also work, or mounted Ranger.


>Follower of Nethys
>Doesn't even need to be a spellcaster

Uh... XD;

Maybe an Occultist, focused on drawing out the magic hidden in mundane items? And adventuring with the Society specifically to find old things to draw magic from?


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Well as Neptys is a god of magic, a "paladin" of his would likely be a Magus.

Scarab Sages

Nohwear wrote:
What you can do is make a Lawful Neutral character who tries to follow a Paladin code. Since it will have no mechanics behind it, you could make your own. Warpriest would work nicely.

Gotta be true neutral. The Paladin aspect is sort a satire in the respect that true neutral makes for very iffy Paladins. Still, character will consider themselves a Paladin, even if the players laugh at the satire out of character.

Yeah, warpriest could work. Other suggestions?

Scarab Sages

Be careful. Some people think calling yourself a paladin even if you aren't getting the benefits is 'Reskinning', which is outlawed. Others think you just can't call yourself a paladin unless that's your class or some unspecified doom will befall us all.

Scarab Sages

Sorry for the doublepost, but I felt the need to add, to be fair Ive seen a bit of this and it can get confusing for the DM as well if you aren't clear to your DM what you are doing.


If you are not bound to divine... Staff Magus.

Flavor it as him calling on Nethys to give him his power...

Then take the Evangelist prestige class as soon as possible to keep getting your benefits, some actual divine abilities, and more skill points.


I agree with ChaosTicket. A "paladin" of Nethys would be a magus.


burkoJames wrote:
Be careful. Some people think calling yourself a paladin even if you aren't getting the benefits is 'Reskinning', which is outlawed. Others think you just can't call yourself a paladin unless that's your class or some unspecified doom will befall us all.

One solution to this is say that you hold yourself to the standards of a Paladin instead.


A paladin isnt quite a real thing. Its a term often used on Fiction in place of "devout warrior".

Whats the real different between a Priest, a Paladin, and anyone else with holy powers?

Nephtys is a god of Magic so Arcane or Divine would both work, but Arcane is more fluffy. You could talk it over with your GM that your Paladiun(class) of Nephtys is actually using Arcane magic up to tier 4 instead of regular Paladin spells.


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Maybe a Champion of the Faith warpriest?

I'd say a magus (Staff Magus especially), warpriest (maybe a Disenchanter), or inquisitor could work as well.

Maybe an oracle could work too? Perhaps an apocalypse oracle?


You could always go for a warpriest and take the champion of the faith archetype.


What about Enlightened Bloodrager?

Shadow Lodge

A friend of mine once did this. He did indeed pick a Magus, called his spellbook his Holy Text and didn't let anyone read it, and would occasionally make his weapon glow before hitting foes with it by literally shouting out, "Smite evil!"

You could also be an Inquisitor of Nethys. Since they get the Zeal inquisition, you could dedicate your holy mission to the taking down of an opposing faith... Even other Nethysicts who aren't doing it right.

The Exchange

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How about an Order of the Tome cavalier?

Or anything using the Sentinel prestige class if you want a divine flavor.

Scarab Sages

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Still tinkering on this one. Could take a level in Steelhound Bloodrager, the go with a Cavalier and just be a wand caster both mounted and in heavy armor.

And regarding reskinning: The horse being a Zebra is a reskin, this paladin bit is nothing more than an inside joke that will be very clearly explained to the GM and other players. And even in character, the PC may consider themselves a paladin equivalent, but they know the difference.


Tome Eater or Battle Host Occultist could be a lot of fun.


An interesting one: warpriest with the traits to lower metamagic costs, and focusing on admonishing ray.

Admonishing ray does nonlethal damage, but it is also force damage. So nothing really resists it, and it is VERY clear when something is immune (undead, golem, etc.- things you can possibly predict based on the campaign).

The meta magic comes up because it is a force spell. Which qualifies it for toppling spell. So you don't use it so much for the damage, and more to knock enemies down using caster level+wisdom for the CMB. All from range. All with just an affordable level 2 spell (due to the metamagic trait thing)

Launch it, knock the enemy down, and then walk over to the enemy, forcing them to either eat an AoO from getting up, or force them to give you a +4 to attack rolls since they are on the ground and you can just smash them.

Overall, a rather nice ranged option for when you can't just smash it with your sword. It is enough that you can go around as a follower of nethys saying "MAGIC RULES!!!!1!", since you use magic to solve problems that are hard to solve with just smashy. Buff yourself wtih divine favor, use magic to knock things down so you can smashy smashy. Nethys would be proud.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Warpriest has an archetype that basically makes you a paladin. A Grey Paladin is also an option xP

Scarab Sages

baja1000 wrote:
Warpriest has an archetype that basically makes you a paladin. A Grey Paladin is also an option xP

Divine Commander, I think.

I need to get a peak at that Ultimate Intrigue. Grey Paladin, huh?


Gray Paladin cannot be true neutral.

Scarab Sages

lemeres wrote:

An interesting one: warpriest with the traits to lower metamagic costs, and focusing on admonishing ray.

Admonishing ray does nonlethal damage, but it is also force damage. So nothing really resists it, and it is VERY clear when something is immune (undead, golem, etc.- things you can possibly predict based on the campaign).

I was under the impression that Damage Reduction applies to non-lethal damage.

The Barbarian archetype, Invulnerable Rager, even has a further bonus against non-lethal with their DR

Quote:
Invulnerability (Ex): At 2nd level, the invulnerable rager gains DR/— equal to half her barbarian level. This damage reduction is doubled against nonlethal damage. This ability replaces uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and damage reduction.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
lemeres wrote:

An interesting one: warpriest with the traits to lower metamagic costs, and focusing on admonishing ray.

Admonishing ray does nonlethal damage, but it is also force damage. So nothing really resists it, and it is VERY clear when something is immune (undead, golem, etc.- things you can possibly predict based on the campaign).

I was under the impression that Damage Reduction applies to non-lethal damage.

The Barbarian archetype, Invulnerable Rager, even has a further bonus against non-lethal with their DR

Quote:
Invulnerability (Ex): At 2nd level, the invulnerable rager gains DR/— equal to half her barbarian level. This damage reduction is doubled against nonlethal damage. This ability replaces uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and damage reduction.

Hard to say. I am fuzzy on how damage reduction interacts with nonelemental attack spells- Damage reduction does say this:

CRB wrote:
The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.

So that seems to indicate that DR doesn't apply. But I can also easily believe there have been a million FAQs adn rules threads about various spells like this.

EDIT: Found relevant dev commentary

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

There's no point in a magical ability calling out whether it's B, P, or S damage unless the intent is that DR/B, DR/P, or DR/S resists it.

If the magical ability wasn't affected by any kind of DR, the ability would just say it deals damage, and not list a type of damage at all.

Because the magical ability lists a damage type, effects that block that damage type apply. If it doesn't list a damage type, then the "creature takes normal damage from spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities" rule applies.

Admonishing ray just does generic 'nonlethal', so I guess it goes past DR? They probably though 'common undead enemies are immune to this' part was balancing enough.

EDIT 2: Actually, it is force damage. So It is a type of energy damage. No idea how that interacts with the special nonlethal rule in invulnerable...

...but a single, highly specific class/archetype combo is not going to invalidate this build. Undead are. The GM can only throw so many barbarians at you. But undead? He can pop those like candy. But you are a class with cleric spells and lay on hands, basically. So I doubt you will have too much trouble with those either.

This is just a fun little ranged option. Not something the GM has to go out of his way to counter. This isn't like a dazing fireball focused wizard, breaking encounters, or a nova-ing magus with shocking grasps that 1 round ko the boss.


ChaosTicket wrote:
Well as Neptys is a god of magic, a "paladin" of his would likely be a Magus.

Does that make the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue the Inquisitor of Nethys?


Secret Wizard wrote:
Gray Paladin cannot be true neutral.

Sure, but LN would work well for this, and is compatable with Nethys worship.

You uphold Nethys' ethos which is TN, but you're doing so in a Lawful approach, so your personal alignment is LN.
You don't expect everybody to do so, in fact, you defend other's right to be non-Lawful.
No more problematic than a normal Paladin of a non-LG God, of whom there are many.
I think in fact this is a good way to carry on the OP's concept, since it plays up further the Paladin Alignment hilarity.
(more so than just being TN and not really caring much about moral issues, you care about TN so strongly you are LN)


OP said he HAS to be TN.


Grey Paladin still has to worship a LG, LN, or NG deity.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Grey Paladin still has to worship a LG, LN, or NG deity.

But base paladin doesn't have this stipulation! And yes, I know Golarion paladins HAVE to worship a deity but I still find it really annoying they specified this in the mechanics of an archetype...

Kicks tables and chairs while screaming incoherently

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Golarion Paladins (aside from Grey Paladins) do not have to worship a deity at all. If they do though they have to be LG, NG, or LN.


Then I understand the restrictions even LESS so. Is it because they, I don't know, don't trust themselves to uphold their own Oaths without slipping so they need to worship a god to keep them on the right track? Are they explicitly gaining divine power from a god rather than the regular paladin's inherent divine power? Or whatever powers paladins?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Then I understand the restrictions even LESS so. Is it because they, I don't know, don't trust themselves to uphold their own Oaths without slipping so they need to worship a god to keep them on the right track? Are they explicitly gaining divine power from a god rather than the regular paladin's inherent divine power? Or whatever powers paladins?

I'd go with the first option.

As for powering Paladins that's up in the air whether Paladins actually receive their power from a specific deity they worship (especially since you can have deity specific Paladin codes).


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I mean...actually yeah that makes a lot of sense. Apparently I understand them a lot better than I thought I did.

Scarab Sages

lemeres wrote:

Hard to say. I am fuzzy on how damage reduction interacts with nonelemental attack spells- Damage reduction does say this:

CRB wrote:
The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.

So that seems to indicate that DR doesn't apply. But I can also easily believe there have been a million FAQs adn rules threads about various spells like this.

EDIT: Found relevant dev commentary

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

There's no point in a magical ability calling out whether it's B, P, or S damage unless the intent is that DR/B, DR/P, or DR/S resists it.

If the magical ability wasn't affected by any kind of DR, the ability would just say it deals damage, and not list a type of damage at all.

Because the magical ability lists a damage type, effects that block that damage type apply. If it doesn't list a damage type, then the "creature takes normal damage from spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities" rule applies.

Admonishing ray just does generic 'nonlethal', so I guess it goes past DR? They probably though 'common undead enemies are immune to this'...

Admonishing ray deals nonlethal damage, but is a Force Effect. It does not deal Force Damage. DR should apply, unless it was DR/nonlethal (Rare, but I think I've seen DR/nonlethal before).

Anyway, that admonishing ray is still a pretty impressive spell.

Scarab Sages

Secret Wizard wrote:
OP said he HAS to be TN.

Correct, that's what I'm going for.

So, not suggested by anyone so far, but what about the Druid? The mount would be easy, and it is a caster, and can even cast in armor. Seems thematically iffy, though shillelagh would work beautifully with the favored weapon of Nethys (quarterstaff).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
lemeres wrote:

Hard to say. I am fuzzy on how damage reduction interacts with nonelemental attack spells- Damage reduction does say this:

CRB wrote:
The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.

So that seems to indicate that DR doesn't apply. But I can also easily believe there have been a million FAQs adn rules threads about various spells like this.

EDIT: Found relevant dev commentary

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

There's no point in a magical ability calling out whether it's B, P, or S damage unless the intent is that DR/B, DR/P, or DR/S resists it.

If the magical ability wasn't affected by any kind of DR, the ability would just say it deals damage, and not list a type of damage at all.

Because the magical ability lists a damage type, effects that block that damage type apply. If it doesn't list a damage type, then the "creature takes normal damage from spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities" rule applies.

Admonishing ray just does generic 'nonlethal', so I guess it goes past DR? They probably though 'common undead enemies are immune to this'...

Admonishing ray deals nonlethal damage, but is a Force Effect. It does not deal Force Damage. DR should apply, unless it was DR/nonlethal (Rare, but I think I've seen DR/nonlethal before).

Anyway, that admonishing ray is still a pretty impressive spell.

DR only applies to spells that specifically say they deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage.

Damage Reduction wrote:

Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction (see Overcoming DR). This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. For example, DR 5/magic means that a creature takes 5 less points of damage from all weapons that are not magic. If a dash follows the slash, then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury poison, a monk's stunning, and injury-based disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target's damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Sometimes damage reduction represents instant healing. Sometimes it represents the creature's tough hide or body. In either case, other characters can see that conventional attacks won't work.

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

FAQ wrote:

Damage Reduction: How does DR interact with magical effects that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?

Although the Bestiary definition of Damage Reduction (page 299) says "The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities," that's actually just referring to damage that isn't specifically called out as being of a particular type, such as fire damage or piercing damage. In other words, DR doesn't protect against "typeless damage" from magical attacks.
However, if a magical attack specifically mentions that it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, DR affects that damage normally, as if it were from a physical weapon. (Otherwise the magical attack might as well not have a damage type, as it would only interface with B/P/S damage in a very few corner cases, such as whether or not an ooze splits from that attack.)
For example, the ice storm spell deals 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage. If you cast ice storm at a group of zombies, the zombie's DR 5/slashing protects them against 5 points of the spell's bludgeoning damage. Their DR doesn't help them against the spell's cold damage because DR doesn't apply to energy attacks.

Also I'm pretty if it's a Force Effect, it deals Force Damage.


Nethys seems a bit slightly the antithesis of the druids. Nethys has little to no regard for the preservation of nature, just that they do not fall too much into chaos or law, good or evil. While that might work for a druid in one aspect, Nethys would just as cool with someone of his faith scorning the earth and salting it forever so nothing could groe if it meant magic was being used to do it. And while his other half might want to preserve the world in some regard, the fact that he is totally mad and can't keep himself together or hold himself to one side just makes him a really unideal god of a druid, even if a druid uses magic. Maybe a really crazy druid might do it, like one who might see a dead planet of sand and stone as being equally as rich in the natural state of the world and truly neutral in all things as it is a literal blank nothing, but I think that is really pushing it.

Also he's not a nature god. But he IS a destruction god. Also protection god...

If there is ONE thing going for Nethys in regards to him being a decent god for a druid, it's that he hates Rovagug. But so does every other god, Asmodeus included among those, so I don't think that is really saying much.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, magic is a natural part of the world, and Nethys governs all magic, and Druids use magic...

Druids could (and do) protect sacred and highly magical sites. And since Druids don't get their spells from their deities you could have them in-game reflavour Nethys as a cultural nature deity over a period of time.

Scarab Sages

Rysky wrote:
Also I'm pretty if it's a Force Effect, it deals Force Damage.

So you think the spell deals "nonlethal force damage"?

I've always considered nonlethal to be it's own damage type, but I suppose if it's a subtype of another damage type, that could make sense.

I really wish they'd address these things in their FAQs, rather than leaving them vague like this.

For the record:

Quote:
You blast your enemies with rays of nonlethal force. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels you possess beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of nonlethal damage. This is a force effect. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be fired simultaneously and aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other. The rays hit about as hard as a punch from a strong adult human, and can knock away unattended objects weighing up to 10 pounds if that amount of force could normally do so.

And I'm still unclear if rays count as weapons.

Scarab Sages

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Nethys seems a bit slightly the antithesis of the druids. Nethys has little to no regard for the preservation of nature, just that they do not fall too much into chaos or law, good or evil.

People always forget how nature works. I see a forest, it is nature. The forest is clear cut down by humans and a city is built. It is still nature. The city falls to ruin and it is still nature. Doesn't matter how much pollution I pump into a forest, it is still nature and still an environment.

In politics, they often refer to preserving the environment. That's a misgnomer. The environment is the current state of things. What they refer to is actually forcing them into a state that they are not longer in. Making the forest green again means forcing change over the environment. Nothing wrong with this outlook, but it's hardly a True neutral perspective.

The NG druid sees undead as abominations that don't belong and works to remove them. The NE druid sees undead portable potting soil and considers them a positive presence in the forest. The True Neutral Druid doesn't care, for the forest does what it wants, and if it allows undead to roam, then they are supposed to be there.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Correct, "Nonlethal" and "Lethal" are modifiers to damage, not damage to types themselves.

There's not really anything vague or FaQ worthy about it. When you hit someone with a sap you're not dealing "nonlethal" damage, you're dealing nonlethal bludgeoning damage. Admonishing Ray deals nonlethal force damage.

Rays count as weapons for the purposes of feats such as Weapon Focus and Improved Critical I believe.


Rysky wrote:
Golarion Paladins (aside from Grey Paladins) do not have to worship a deity at all. If they do though they have to be LG, NG, or LN.

Unless you're in PFS, then, yes, you MUST worship a LG, LN, or NG deity.

I still like Magus best out of the options suggested, though (with Warpriest, Inquisitor, and Occultist all tying for 2nd.)

Scarab Sages

Rysky wrote:

Correct, "Nonlethal" and "Lethal" are modifiers to damage, not damage to types themselves.

There's not really anything vague or FaQ worthy about it. When you hit someone with a sap you're not dealing "nonlethal" damage, you're dealing nonlethal bludgeoning damage. Admonishing Ray deals nonlethal force damage.

Source?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Nethys seems a bit slightly the antithesis of the druids. Nethys has little to no regard for the preservation of nature, just that they do not fall too much into chaos or law, good or evil.

People always forget how nature works. I see a forest, it is nature. The forest is clear cut down by humans and a city is built. It is still nature. The city falls to ruin and it is still nature. Doesn't matter how much pollution I pump into a forest, it is still nature and still an environment.

In politics, they often refer to preserving the environment. That's a misgnomer. The environment is the current state of things. What they refer to is actually forcing them into a state that they are not longer in. Making the forest green again means forcing change over the environment. Nothing wrong with this outlook, but it's hardly a True neutral perspective.

The NG druid sees undead as abominations that don't belong and works to remove them. The NE druid sees undead portable potting soil and considers them a positive presence in the forest. The True Neutral Druid doesn't care, for the forest does what it wants, and if it allows undead to roam, then they are supposed to be there.

No, that's from the real world scientific view on the environment, not nature.

In fanstasy nature =/= civilization.

Cities are environments.

Cities are not nature (they can nature in them though).

Pollution is not nature.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Correct, "Nonlethal" and "Lethal" are modifiers to damage, not damage to types themselves.

There's not really anything vague or FaQ worthy about it. When you hit someone with a sap you're not dealing "nonlethal" damage, you're dealing nonlethal bludgeoning damage. Admonishing Ray deals nonlethal force damage.

Source?

*blink*

*blink*

Are you serious?


Murdock Mudeater wrote:

My cleric of Nethys just died. I enjoyed it, and am thinking a Zebra mounted follower of Nethys would be a fun replacement. No particular class in mind, but it would be fun to play a "Paladin" of Nethys. Suggestions?

This is for PFS. My PCs lean towards support characters, but I can play anything.

Won't fly. Nethys is more than one step from your required alignment.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:

My cleric of Nethys just died. I enjoyed it, and am thinking a Zebra mounted follower of Nethys would be a fun replacement. No particular class in mind, but it would be fun to play a "Paladin" of Nethys. Suggestions?

This is for PFS. My PCs lean towards support characters, but I can play anything.

Won't fly. Nethys is more than one step from your required alignment.

Ya missed the bunny ears Drahl :3

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