I'd allow it. You would probably have the 'seen once' or 'seen casually' familiarity at best.
If it was me, I would calculate first the radius of your vision from your vantage point on the ball below you, and that would be your sight range. And then I'd tack +1 to the roll for every mile above 30 to the "seen once" column.
The reason being, one piece of the sky looks pretty much like the other, and 30 miles is about the limit where the unaided eye can see something distinct (candle in the night).
on earth, 100 miles up puts you in space and you would suffocate..... so I'd say it's an impossibility.. I mean, would you really allow a mage to teleport to the mooon, since it's LOS?
The problem as I see it is that there are no real points of reference in the open sky. On the ground you can say, "hey, I want to teleport over next to that building" or whatever, but what are you using to gauge relative distances in the sky? "Patch of sky" isn't really something you can see, because the atmosphere is functionally invisible -- maybe if there were some clouds or a few birds around you could use those as reference points, but that's still kind of iffy.
I would suggest that you should be able to teleport as far as the horizon, since that's the farthest physical object you could actually see from your vantage point. On planet Earth, the horizon extends to about 3 miles at ground level. At your example of 1 mile up it's at a distance of about 89 miles. Assuming a planet of similar diameter that would be your max limit.
If you do a google search for "distance to the horizon" you will find sites that allow you to calculate the distance to the horizon from different heights.
I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.
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I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.
I agree with Boomerang. Teleportation say "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination." A patch in the sky don't seem to fulfill that request.
If you do a google search for "distance to the horizon" you will find sites that allow you to calculate the distance to the horizon from different heights.
I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.
Distance to the horizon requires knowing the circumference of the planet you are on (if I remember my geometry right). As far as I know, that's unpublished.
I agree with Boomerang. Teleportation say "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination." A patch in the sky don't seem to fulfill that request.
I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.
Having a point of reference for the teleport is key. Giving a distance and vector (in 3d space) from your current location is sufficient, IMO.
"Over there" isn't.
Distance to the horizon requires knowing the circumference of the planet you are on (if I remember my geometry right). As far as I know, that's unpublished.If you do a google search for "distance to the horizon" you will find sites that allow you to calculate the distance to the horizon from different heights.
I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.
The formula is below.
D = R * arccos(R/(R + h))
D is the approximate distance to the horizon, R is radius of the planet in question and h is height of the observer.
Some things that will effect this is how close the planet is to a perfect sphere and the opacity of the air.
I agree with Boomerang. Teleportation say "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination." A patch in the sky don't seem to fulfill that request.
I don't allow teleportation to fluid locations like patches of sky or bodies of water. I figure you can't visualise something that is constantly changing and teleport is a powerful enough spell without that extra functionality.Having a point of reference for the teleport is key. Giving a distance and vector (in 3d space) from your current location is sufficient, IMO.
"Over there" isn't.
That seems like a reasonable interpretation. How do you decide whether a caster can accurately define a point of reference? Also, how do you decide on the chance of success?
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That seems like a reasonable interpretation. How do you decide whether a caster can accurately define a point of reference? Also, how do you decide on the chance of success?
I probably would base it on how clear would be the reference if I were to navigate there physically in real life without a GPS or a map and doing some calculation.
"800 meters in that direction" I can get within 50 meters from the intended target.
"8.000 meters" and my error probably will be in the half kilometer range.
"80 Km ..." the error would be horrible.
"50 m above the rock that resemble a stag" is ok.
"5 km south of the hamlet of Ham" and the error go up. It is the center of the hamlet? from the church? Etc.
The difference in the quality of the destination description will affect how well know is the target area for the destination purpose, and I would allow it only if the teleporting guy already has seen the area.
Okay so what happens if you want to teleport to 1,000 feet above a town they have visited once? Does it make any difference if they were in the town when the sky was clear but now the sky is stormy?
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Okay so what happens if you want to teleport to 1,000 feet above a town they have visited once? Does it make any difference if they were in the town when the sky was clear but now the sky is stormy?
1.000' seem relatively close to a well know point, so:
The teleporting guy has seen the town from 1.000' in the air?
If not false destination/never seen.
Seen once? "Viewed once".
A stormy sky shouldn't make a difference if you are using the "Viewed once" line.
If you have seen the town several times from that vantage point bad weather conditions could move the conditions to a worse row.
So "very familiar" could move to "studied carefully" if you are teleporting at night or with a light mist, to "seen casually" during a violent storm and to "viewed once" during an hailstorm that is breaking tiles and flash flooding the streets.
A whirlwind uprooting or demolishing houses could change it to "false destination".
There is no absolute rules, mine are personal opinions, not official rules.
I'm mostly with Diego on this, with the dice roll deciding the error factor, so I don't have to do any work. I decide whether there is an accurate point of reference based on the description given by the caster, and his in game knowledge. Although, I don't think that the caster needs to have seen the town from the perspective of the destination. Giving a vector and distance from a known point is enough.
My question concerns teleport and line of sight. So lets say a Wizard levitating 1 mile up in the air (how he/she got there is unimportant). Lets say there is no visual obstructions as far as the eye can see. How far could the Wizard teleport by line of sight in any direction (not including down). Would having the visual range of an area of sky, say 100 miles away be enough for the Wizard to teleport to the "patch of sky" 100 miles away?
How you got up there IS important. You don't ask for a rules based answer, and start by breaking rules in your question. The rules don't permit such levitation by standard means. Without some form of super vision, the details you can make of the ground are rather sketchy at best. And that's not taking into account clouds and haze. And if I really wanted to be nasty, there's always the mirage like effects you get when you look to the horizon.
My question concerns teleport and line of sight. So lets say a Wizard levitating 1 mile up in the air (how he/she got there is unimportant). Lets say there is no visual obstructions as far as the eye can see. How far could the Wizard teleport by line of sight in any direction (not including down). Would having the visual range of an area of sky, say 100 miles away be enough for the Wizard to teleport to the "patch of sky" 100 miles away?How you got up there IS important. You don't ask for a rules based answer, and start by breaking rules in your question. The rules don't permit such levitation by standard means. Without some form of super vision, the details you can make of the ground are rather sketchy at best. And that's not taking into account clouds and haze. And if I really wanted to be nasty, there's always the mirage like effects you get when you look to the horizon.
While we are on the topic of complaining about irrelevant things: what is the deal with using miles? Haven't they heard of the metric system?
Horizon entry on Wikipedia has some handy equations for this.
Assuming that Golarion is roughly the size of Earth, being a mile in the air would put the horizon no more than ~89 miles away. (1.22 * sqrt(5280) = 88.64)
The farthest point you could see is another question entirely. If there was a mountain 14000 ft high over the horizon, the tip would extend over the horizon if it was no more than ~144 miles away. That means you could, under optimal circumstances and with no atmospheric refraction, see something ~233 miles away from a vantage point 1 mile in the air.
How you got up there IS important. You don't ask for a rules based answer, and start by breaking rules in your question. The rules don't permit such levitation by standard means.
The fly spell lets you ascend at half speed, or 60 feet per round, with a DC 20 Fly check. Ascending a mile would take 88 rounds, or just under 9 minutes. An unencumbered 9th-level caster could make it to the theorized vantage point with just enough time left to scan the horizon and cast teleport.
The formula is below.D = R * arccos(R/(R + h))
D is the approximate distance to the horizon, R is radius of the planet in question and h is height of the observer.
Some things that will effect this is how close the planet is to a perfect sphere and the opacity of the air.
A Wizard with a high enough intelligence and a Knowledge (Enginneering) skill would be able to derive the necessary knowledge enough to give an "objective" destination from his current point in space as a point of reference.
Just do the math, really. Once that is done, you have a fixed destination and layout of empty air is no different than the layout directly around the caster.
The formula is below.D = R * arccos(R/(R + h))
D is the approximate distance to the horizon, R is radius of the planet in question and h is height of the observer.
Some things that will effect this is how close the planet is to a perfect sphere and the opacity of the air.
A Wizard with a high enough intelligence and a Knowledge (Enginneering) skill would be able to derive the necessary knowledge enough to give an "objective" destination from his current point in space as a point of reference.
Just do the math, really. Once that is done, you have a fixed destination and layout of empty air is no different than the layout directly around the caster.
That is an interesting way of interpreting the spell. It makes teleport considerably more powerful than my own interpretation.
I think I would be okay with using your method for interplanetary teleportation but not for regular teleport or greater teleport.
My question concerns teleport and line of sight. So lets say a Wizard levitating 1 mile up in the air (how he/she got there is unimportant). Lets say there is no visual obstructions as far as the eye can see. How far could the Wizard teleport by line of sight in any direction (not including down). Would having the visual range of an area of sky, say 100 miles away be enough for the Wizard to teleport to the "patch of sky" 100 miles away?How you got up there IS important. You don't ask for a rules based answer, and start by breaking rules in your question. The rules don't permit such levitation by standard means. Without some form of super vision, the details you can make of the ground are rather sketchy at best. And that's not taking into account clouds and haze. And if I really wanted to be nasty, there's always the mirage like effects you get when you look to the horizon.
Can't you just fly straight up for 88 rounds ( 5280 ft / 60 ft/round )to achieve an altitude of 1 mile? Is there a limitation on that?
Atmospheric phenomena / clouds can be filter'd out by the use of a Goz mask.
I don't see how the scenario is particularity unlikely within the current rules.
To OP's question i'd suggest casting Arcane eye (can be created in any point you can see so the edge of the horizon is a valid 'target') into the horizon and then using that as the visualization for the teleport spell. You could use the horizon distance formula posed earlier in the thread to determine exactly how far away you can spawn the arcane eye.
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Interplanetary Teleport
The formula is below.D = R * arccos(R/(R + h))
D is the approximate distance to the horizon, R is radius of the planet in question and h is height of the observer.
Some things that will effect this is how close the planet is to a perfect sphere and the opacity of the air.
A Wizard with a high enough intelligence and a Knowledge (Enginneering) skill would be able to derive the necessary knowledge enough to give an "objective" destination from his current point in space as a point of reference.
Just do the math, really. Once that is done, you have a fixed destination and layout of empty air is no different than the layout directly around the caster.
That is an interesting way of interpreting the spell. It makes teleport considerably more powerful than my own interpretation.
I think I would be okay with using your method for interplanetary teleportation but not for regular teleport or greater teleport.
Touché
That is an interesting way of interpreting the spell. It makes teleport considerably more powerful than my own interpretation.
I think I would be okay with using your method for interplanetary teleportation but not for regular teleport or greater teleport.
Personally, I'm surprised pathfinder removed the "stable platform" from the older versions, which prevented aerial teleportations. That right there expanded the power of the teleport spell beyond what I am historically familiar with.
"Studied carefully" is a place you know well, either because you can currently physically see it or you've been there often.
Where you wind up:
On Target 01–94Off Target 95–97
Similar Area 98–99
Mishap 100
/cevah