+1 CR races

[Derek Dalton]

3.5 had rules for dealing with +1 CR races. Had a player state Pathfinder had official rules regarding this. If so could someone tell me.
As a GM I would make Drow Nobles a +1 Cr race since by Race Guide build rules most playable races are around seven to fifteen. Drow Nobles are 41. Considering what they get they should be a +1 but by official rules are not.

[SheepishEidolon]

I can't remember any set rules, but these guidelines from ARG might help you.

[RevusHarkings]

The rules for such are here. Basically, instead of a high-RP character having a CR adjustment, you treat the party as having a higher average level when designing encounters based on the party's average race points.

[CannibalKitten]

So is this pathfinder level adjustment?

[Buri Reborn]

CannibalKitten wrote:

So is this pathfinder level adjustment?

No, because, as I understand D&D LA, it had a permanent offset. Monsters as PCs and such in Pathfinder, get free levels occasionally and eventually balance out where they're treated normally without respect to any CR adjustments or offsets.

[CannibalKitten]

So there is no LA in pathfinder? I've always noticed no entry in the races obviously and nothing I read in ARG, not that I have read every word. So do Drow players get to play at the same level as everyone else in a normal raced party then? They just raise its CR?

[14 sided die]

CannibalKitten wrote:

So there is no LA in pathfinder? I've always noticed no entry in the races obviously and nothing I read in ARG, not that I have read every word. So do Drow players get to play at the same level as everyone else in a normal raced party then? They just raise its CR?

Yep, the ARG, as mentioned above has guidelines for how much more challenging encounters should be for parties including more powerful races, since the extra power does drop off after a while, and it is honestly a less fiddly system than LA anyway

[Vatras]

There are no LAs in Pathfinder. You will notice that the races also changed a little, with certain abilities having been removed.

However, it is a bad idea to let people pick the powerful races in the same game with people who don't.

[CannibalKitten]

Hmm thanks for the clarification, surprising but intriguing. How would you say this would/should affect PvP events and such, like a mortal kombat style fight against players?

[Melkiador]

Pathfinder doesn't really work well with PVP. But if you are worried about race differences, just make sure all participants have a similar number of race points.

[Bwang]

The problem is the disparity between the starting (and subsequent) power levels of the characters. If I'm playing a powerful race like a centaur and you're a gnome, you will come to resent my mechanical superiority. Its just natural. Superman is all over the Bat in every mechanical function, but Bats makes up for it by being the (much) better roleplayer.

One group I'm in (Wizard 9) is dominated by our lowest level and one of our weakest players who serves as our leader, cheerleader, font of tactical insight and reminder of forgotten abilities. She plays an odd Wizard archetype (W 7) that gets Druid spells and keeps me on my toes. I am a better player when she is at the table.

Level 20s and level 1s are not to be in the same party. The Alfonce Carter will drop off the team that stars Eric Dickerson. Nobody wants to be second banana, though second violin is a very important position. The ARG system penalizes the weaker raced characters.

[Derek Vande Brake]

My personal GM trick is to have weaker races (like goblins and kobolds) get an extra trait; stronger races like aasimar, tieflings, and suli lose a trait (so they only get one) and just disallow anything that is considerably more powerful than those three.

If I did want to allow stronger races, I'd probably give everyone extra traits, then remove even more from those races.

[Marc Radle]

You might also take a look at the Advanced Races Compendium from Kobold Press.

Advanced Races Compendium presents a ton of monstrous races as balanced, playable races. Each race gets a full chapter. In addition, it's packed with racial feats, traits, spells, bloodlines, gear, magic items, archetypes and more. There are even rules and advice to adjust these classic and new races to suit your campaign’s power level.

Races included in the book:
Gearforged
Lizardfolk
Kobold
Ravenfolk
Shadow Fey
Tiefling
Tosculi
Aasimar
Centaur
Darakhul
Derro
Dhampir
Dragonkin
Sahuagin
Drow
Lamia
Gnoll
Minotaur
Trollkin
Werelion
... and more!

Give the Advanced Races Compendium a look and see if it helps!

[MKtheDM]

CannibalKitten wrote:

So there is no LA in pathfinder? I've always noticed no entry in the races obviously and nothing I read in ARG, not that I have read every word. So do Drow players get to play at the same level as everyone else in a normal raced party then? They just raise its CR?

I think there is a chart in the race builder section that shows the APL adjustment you would put in place. If I am correct (which I may not be), I believe you would count the RP of all the races in the party, divide it by the number of party members, and then use that chart to determine APL adjustment.

[Buri Reborn]

MKtheDM wrote:

CannibalKitten wrote:

So there is no LA in pathfinder? I've always noticed no entry in the races obviously and nothing I read in ARG, not that I have read every word. So do Drow players get to play at the same level as everyone else in a normal raced party then? They just raise its CR?

I think there is a chart in the race builder section that shows the APL adjustment you would put in place. If I am correct (which I may not be), I believe you would count the RP of all the races in the party, divide it by the number of party members, and then use that chart to determine APL adjustment.

Except this changes over time and eventually goes away entirely. It's not exactly the same.

[CannibalKitten]

Buri Reborn wrote:

MKtheDM wrote:

CannibalKitten wrote:

So there is no LA in pathfinder? I've always noticed no entry in the races obviously and nothing I read in ARG, not that I have read every word. So do Drow players get to play at the same level as everyone else in a normal raced party then? They just raise its CR?

I think there is a chart in the race builder section that shows the APL adjustment you would put in place. If I am correct (which I may not be), I believe you would count the RP of all the races in the party, divide it by the number of party members, and then use that chart to determine APL adjustment.

Except this changes over time and eventually goes away entirely. It's not exactly the same.

I had noticed that and was confused a bit by it, but your explanation (Buri)sounded like what I had thought it was, so if a character started with a stronger race then everyone else how would you deal with them then having a lower level once it evens out? Give them a level as they essentially lose a LA?

[Bearserk]

According to the Bestiarys you can use the CR as a kind of LA.

Take a look at Monsters as PC.

[Air0r]

What you could do, and what I will be doing in a future game I DM, CR+1 races/templates will level on the medium XP chart instead of the Fast XP chart.

[CWheezy]

Its not a big deal imo. The best races are like human, half orc, half elf any way.

NPC only races are like duergar tyrants and svirneblin. Noble drow look super broken but really they are only ok

[CWheezy]

To clarify what I mean:

Cool racial stuff is generally outpaces very quickly by class abilities. Maybe drow nobles seem op at level 1, and they are pretty good, but at level 9+ its mostly "whatever"

[swoosh]

Derek Vande Brake wrote:

My personal GM trick is to have weaker races (like goblins and kobolds) get an extra trait; stronger races like aasimar, tieflings, and suli lose a trait (so they only get one) and just disallow anything that is considerably more powerful than those three.

If I did want to allow stronger races, I'd probably give everyone extra traits, then remove even more from those races.

At a glance it seems like outside the fairly niche 'campaign that leans very heavily on elemental damage at low levels' that sulis are kind of bad though.

Likewise goblins are rocking a +4 to dex and a +4 to stealth checks, which makes them pretty damn brutal as any stealth based class and pretty amazing as anyone who runs off dex. Gunslingers, rogues, more offensively inclined alchemists... I'm not sure they really need help.

[Juda de Kerioth]

RevusHarkings wrote:

The rules for such are here. Basically, instead of a high-RP character having a CR adjustment, you treat the party as having a higher average level when designing encounters based on the party's average race points.

i use something similar to this, since i love to let my players use high CR races, i just adjust the +cr to the average APL at all. Also, i modified the APL since i found it kind of useless as it is by Raw.

something like APL easy = same of the party and epic APL +5

also, I use the overal party level as a measure of how many mob, traps, or enviroment handicaps i would include in the encounter (wich goes to hell with the den rules for monsters in 5the)