Nolethal Damage and Improvised Weapons.


Rules Questions


Good day.
So we currently are in this intrigue/espionage setting and I'm trying to put together some features for my Makeshift Scrapper Rogue specialized in disguise with the Quick Disguise (Ex) Rogue Talent for infiltration and intelligence gathering.
To the point: is there any way to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage with some specific or not so specific category of improvised weapons as if using a Sap? I'm trying to knock unconscious innocent people like servants and the sort without killing them and taking their clothing to disguise myself. Is there any rule to support this idea?


Also, I'm trying to avoid taking the bludgeoner feat. Thanks in advance.


There's this thing called the sap... You can do nonlethal sneak attack with it. Without any minuses to your attack and no extra feat expenditure.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
There's this thing called the sap... You can do nonlethal sneak attack with it. Without any minuses to your attack and no extra feat expenditure.

Yes, but unfortunately, the Makeshift Scrapper is not proficient with martial weapons.


The Makeshift Scrapper Rogue is only proficient with simple weapons and gets the Catch Off Guard and Throw Anything Feats at 1st level, and since I also have the Surprise Weapon Combat Trait which gives me a +2 trait bonus on attack rolls with improvised weapons, it would be very convenient for it to be one of those.


Xuchilbara wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
There's this thing called the sap... You can do nonlethal sneak attack with it. Without any minuses to your attack and no extra feat expenditure.
Yes, but unfortunately, the Makeshift Scrapper is not proficient with martial weapons.

Unless you lose all of your rogue proficinecies, you should still be good. Sap is a simple weapon anyway.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Xuchilbara wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
There's this thing called the sap... You can do nonlethal sneak attack with it. Without any minuses to your attack and no extra feat expenditure.
Yes, but unfortunately, the Makeshift Scrapper is not proficient with martial weapons.
Unless you lose all of your rogue proficinecies, you should still be good. Sap is a simple weapon anyway.

It is'nt. Is listed under light martial weapons at d20pfrsd.com. I know that usually a rogue is proficient with some other weapons aside of simple weapons, such as the Sap, Hand Crossbow and Rapier but the Makeshift Scrapper Archetype Excludes all but simple weapons.


radical idea then.....

spend a feat so you can use a sap.... or improvise one with a sock full of coins?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

In theory, you can take -4 to your attack roll to deal nonlethal, even with improvised weapons.

I don't think, especially with your feats, a GM would say you couldn't strike nonlethally with a table leg, yet let the guy with a morning star do so.


Saethori wrote:

In theory, you can take -4 to your attack roll to deal nonlethal, even with improvised weapons.

I don't think, especially with your feats, a GM would say you couldn't strike nonlethally with a table leg, yet let the guy with a morning star do so.

Yes, I think that would work, but I was trying to find something that could be used as a nonlethal improvised weapon, as if it were the ''sap'' of the improvised universe, without taking any penalty on attack rolls nor needing the bludgeoner feat. I just checked the weapons section at d20:

''To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match''.

Could it be possible to use something fully improvised that deal nonlethal damage as it is? It isn't necessary to be 1d6 like the sap. Would it be allowed by the rules? I liked the idea of the sock with coins by the way.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yeah, I'm thinking the sock or bag filled with coins is your best bet at imitating a sap.

Also makes satisfying clinking sounds.


Saethori wrote:

Yeah, I'm thinking the sock or bag filled with coins is your best bet at imitating a sap.

Also makes satisfying clinking sounds.

xD The bag of coins of course! the main purpose of the character is to carry around small, conventional objects that doesn't look like weapons at all while being disguised, and wait for the best moment to strike in a surprise round (dealing nonlethal sneak attack damage). A bag full of coins should do and I don't think my GM would object. Thank you! =)


So.. old sailor trick. US navy. You know those ascot/hankercheifs? The blue things like on popeye and to a lesser form old scooby do's Freddy?

So its that, but its wrapped a bit of lead in it, or some other metal. My gramps used to use that in bar fights. he'd pull off his blue thingy.and hit someone with it in a pretty swift move. He could basiclaly surprise people with it. and for fred's model version, in the two ties were lead, and they pull the whole thing over their head and use it flail like that..

either would work I imagine, and wouldn't look strange. alternatively their is that.. pocket scarf? some sort of hideden hole in it right?
Stick a measure of adamantine in it. flail or whip them with it.

Otherwise yeah, get a coin purse--durable one mind you, with a length of chain or strong silk string.. so youc an centrfugal force hit someone with it pretty quick..


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Insert centripetal force comment here.


Butter sock!


Zwordsman wrote:

So.. old sailor trick. US navy. You know those ascot/hankercheifs? The blue things like on popeye and to a lesser form old scooby do's Freddy?

So its that, but its wrapped a bit of lead in it, or some other metal. My gramps used to use that in bar fights. he'd pull off his blue thingy.and hit someone with it in a pretty swift move. He could basiclaly surprise people with it. and for fred's model version, in the two ties were lead, and they pull the whole thing over their head and use it flail like that..

either would work I imagine, and wouldn't look strange. alternatively their is that.. pocket scarf? some sort of hideden hole in it right?
Stick a measure of adamantine in it. flail or whip them with it.

Otherwise yeah, get a coin purse--durable one mind you, with a length of chain or strong silk string.. so youc an centrfugal force hit someone with it pretty quick..

I talked to my GM about this options and he's alright with them too. It's great to have different nonlethal improvised weapons to choose from to match them with different disguises. Thank you guys, I was worried that this situation would be more problematic.

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