Jack-of-all-trades character possible?


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Jack-of-all-trades class

15BAB, d8 hit points, 4-6+ skill points before intelligence modifier

Simple+martial weapon proficiency, shield+light+medium armor proficiency

Tier 6 spells

Bonus (combat) feats(Fighter-only feats in particular)

At least 1 Class feature with combat bonuses.
Minor class features with bonuses to Initiative, and skills optional, but useful.
======================================
Do any current classes with or without archetypes fit this?

I know there are some close ones but Im looking for one that fits ALL these criteria.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Investigator.


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Vanilla (not sure on archetypes) Inquisitor just has teamwork feats, not combat feats, but other than that, it fits your criteria, and has a very interesting spell list.

Dark Archive

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The "Hunter" from the Advanced Class Guide fits all these.

Dark Archive

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The Investigator doesn't.

No martial weapon proficiency.
Only light armor.

Dark Archive

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The Inquisitor doesn't get martial weapon prof. too.


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Bard with arcane duelist is incredibly close

15 Bab
d8 hd
6+ skill points
Sheild + medium armor
T6 spells
Bonus Combat feats including fighter only ones
Skill Bonuses Yes

Slightly off
Weapon proficiency- doesn't have total martial proficiency but does have most relevant weapons
Initiative Bonus- technically not here. However arcane bond can be used to add dueling for a pretty reasonable price


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

True, you'd have to burn a feat (or a trait) for the weapon proficiency, but armor is easy to get around.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Or a race that covers specific weapon types such as dwarf, elf, or half-orc.

Dark Archive

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Medium gets you basically everything, at a price. Bonus points if you choose Spirit Dancer as your archetype, since you now have everything on a day by day and encounter by encounter basis. Just be careful with your influence, and you'll be fine.

I could also say Summoner, if you're willing to be fairly broad on how exactly you fulfill your requirements. You can almost always summon SOMETHING to meet a challenge, after all, and a skill monkey Eidolon is hilarious for making up for your lack of personal skills.

Scarab Sages

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I don't think anything has all of those, unless there's an Archetype out there somewhere. Other than the Hunter (Which is just limited in that their Bonus Feats must be Teamwork Feats). Arcane Duelist Bard was another good suggestion. I'm not familiar enough with the Medium.

Myrmidarch Magus is the next closest, I think.

+15 BAB - check

d8 Hitpoints - check

2+ Skill points - This is where it falls short, though as an Int-based caster, you're likely to have as many skill points as a 4+Int class that doesn't need Int. If not more. Their Class Skill list does have some big omissions, though. Namely Perception and Linguistics.

Martial Weapon Proficiency - check

Medium Armor Proficiency - Not at 1st level. They get it at 7th

Shield Proficiency - This is another one that is missing, but they can cast Shield, which is better in a lot of cases anyway.

6th level Spells - Check, and with a pretty good spell list. Though with Diminished Spellcasting. So one less spell per level. That combined with losing Spell Recall can hurt, but Pearls of Power will help.

Bonus Combat Feats - Check - at 5th, 11th, and 17th.
Fighter Feats - Check - Though not until 7th Level, and at Level -3 effectiveness. But, they can be any of your feats, not just the Bonus Feats. That means you could pick up Weapon Specialization at 7th.

Weapon Training wasn't on your list, but I think it's important to include, as it opens the Myrmidarch up to taking Advanced Weapon Training with their 9th level feat (or at 12th when they get another Weapon Training). Myrmidarch gains this at 6th, just 1 level behind a Fighter. Progression is slower.

Arcane Pool - +1 Enhancement at 1st, +2 at 5th (with a list of Sepcial Abilities to add), +3 at 9th, up to +5 at 17th. Activating as a swift action. This is a versatile and extremely useful ability. Usually it'll be used to add Keen, but having the flexibility to boost you weapon up to +5 to overcome DR is extremely helpful in the right circumstances.

Also, Spell Combat/Spellstrike lets you either get an extra attack or cast a battlefield control spell and still fight. Myrmidarch gets a Ranged version of Spellstrike as well, so you can switch between being an archer or melee as needed.

The Myrmidarch does give up a lot of their Arcanas for Weapon Training, but still get a total of 3, and you can always use the Extra Arcana feat if you need more. Arcane Accuracy is a nice combat buff, or Wand Wielder can help make up for the lower number of spell slots.

EDIT: Also, Armor Training means that 1 level after you get Medium Armor Proficiency, you'll be moving in it at full speed without needing to buy Mithral Armor. And, eventually, you'll get Heavy Armor Proficiency and Armor Training for that, too.


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Skald comes pretty close if you count rage powers as feats. They have everything else listed.

Battle host occultist has everything on your list, but spellcasting is sort of limited due to low number of implements.


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ChaosTicket wrote:

Jack-of-all-trades class

15BAB, d8 hit points, 4-6+ skill points before intelligence modifier

Simple+martial weapon proficiency, shield+light+medium armor proficiency

Tier 6 spells

Bonus (combat) feats(Fighter-only feats in particular)

At least 1 Class feature with combat bonuses.
Minor class features with bonuses to Initiative, and skills optional, but useful.
======================================
Do any current classes with or without archetypes fit this?

I know there are some close ones but Im looking for one that fits ALL these criteria.

Inquisitor of Sarenrae meets basically all of these. It has the most important weapons covered. Spellkiller inquisition gives it a fighter-only feat, it has bonus (teamwork)feats, its proficient most of the relevant options for weapons (longspear for reach, bow for ranged, cestus/dagger for if grappled, scimitar for 1h, and spear for the 2 situations where a 2h nonreach weapon is better than longspears or 2 handing a scimitar. Gives bonuses to sense motive, intimidate, and initiative as well as spells and spell like abilities to augment social encounters.

Suggestions for making one would be as follows:
Take sanctified slayer archetype for trapfinding and a ranger feat. Take Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. Precise shot is needed for a dedicated archer, but you are a switch-hitter and will be engaging in melee when possible. Take Quick Draw at third level. Be a walking armory, and eventually amass a magic scimitar, longspear, and longbow. Take Escape Route to help with positioning and outflank to help with accuracy. If you aren't in a melee-heavy party use the preacher archetype instead.

Hunter has medium armor, bonus feats, martial weapons, skills, 6 levels of spells, and an animal companion for "combat bonuses." Unless getting turns as a 2-for-1 isn't a "bonus" in which case, refer to hunter's focus.

Skald gets med. Armor+martial weapons, spells, combat feats (from disruptive rage power), combat buffs, initiative boost (with fated champion), skills, skill boosts, and a few other goodies.

Question though, what "fighter only" combat feats are you looking for? Most of them are...meager.


The Skald is also close. They get several rage powers that often give versions of combat feats. Some combat manuvers, a version of contact reflexes etc. One archetype gets half level to initiative which is great.

This hits everything but the feats.

There are some warpriest archetypes that get more skill points, they have the feats but I can't remember, off hand, if the keep there proficiencies. But they would be worth a look.


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Ooh, is overqualifying valid?

Oracle with the battle revelation has
D8 HD, 4+INT Skills, spellcasting (9 levels, overqualifies), bonus feats (Weapon Mastery for weapon focus, improved critical, and fighter-only greater weapon focus), Skill at Arms for heavy armor (overqualifies) and martial weapons, Battlecry (and spells like enlarge person) for combat boosts, war sight for initiative boost, and a few more fun goodies. Take extra revelation @ 1st and revelations in this order:
Skill at Arms, War Sight/Weapon Mastery, War Sight/Weapon Mastery, battlecry, whatever else you think looks good.

Dark Archive

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Medium has:

d8 HD - check

3/4 BAB - check

4+ Skill Points - check

Martial Weapon Proficiency - when channeling a Champion Spirit, plus one Exotic Weapon each day

Medium Armor Proficiency - Check

Shield Proficiency - when channeling a Guardian Spirit, plus Heavy Armor Proficiency

6th level spells - when channeling a Heirophant or Archmage Spirit, with access to the two good spell lists (Wizard and Cleric, can pick new spells each day), otherwise 4th level spells

Bonus Combat Feats - not really, but equivalent and occasionally superior class abilities

At least 1 class feature with combat bonuses - all Champion Spirit bonuses are combat related, and make you better than a fighter so long as you have them

Minor class abilities to other areas - Trickster and Marshall Spirits grant access to a number of assorted buffs, to include to skills and initiative

The Medium, especially as a Spirit Dancer, is the closest you will get to a jack of all trades. The only thing you have to really try and manage is your Influence, but you won't be using as much of it as a normal Medium would be either.


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I'm playing an Inquisitor who took a single dip in unarmed fighter archetype. Gives you all the martial weapons AND monk weapons, +1 BAB and some fun FEAT stuff...

I absolutely botched my chance with the D10 Hp (rolled a 1) but I still believe it was a worthwhile thematic dip. Now I'll spend the rest of the time in Inquistor.


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Warpriest comes close:

3/4 BAB and d8 HD: Check

Simple and martial weapon proficiency and Medium Armor and shields: Check (actually, gets Heavy Armor)

6/0 spellcasting: Check

Bonus Combat feats, even if Fighter-only: Check (every 3n levels, 2/3 rate of Fighter except not having one at 1st level)

Combat Bonus: Check (Sacred Weapon and Divine Power; if this is not enough, Arsenal Chaplain archetype also gives you Weapon Training)

Falls short: Only 2 skill points per level (BOOOO), and no Initiative booster (unless one of the Blessings has one and I missed it).


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Battle Host Occultist
3/4 BAB, d8 HD, 4 + Int, good class skills
Proficiency with martial weapons, heavy armor, and shields
6/9 casting (with reduced spells known)
Bonus combat feats, but no fighter qualification (Does that even matter? Most Fighter-only feats aren't that impressive.)
One or more accuracy/damage boosts, plus a free flanking buddy
Various minor skill bonuses available with different schools of magic


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Is it important to meet the qualifications with a single class? A single level dip could get you the required proficiency with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.

I am not sure about the specifics of qualifying for fighter only feats -- the ranger and the monk both have access to bonus feats that are arguably at least competitive with what fighters can get.


Note: The secondary class feature was a example. Increases to initiative are useful, but so are boosts to all skills like the Bardic Knowledge and Jack-of-all-trades.

Any combat feat you can choose also allows spell feats. Fighter-only-feats, there is only one that I know that important and it for the Archery fighting style Feat: Point Blank Master. I dont know if other Fighting styles also require Fighter to get them.
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Hunter is quite good. It doesnt get all the feats for Fighting Styles.

Inquisitor is similar. Doesnt have martial weapons and can't go far into Fighting Styles.

Charisma classes could fit in as the Skald and (battle) Oracle mentioned, but In my instance I have a Point Buy character system, so Charisma is a dump stat for Strength, dexterity, Constitution, and anything else.


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The Vigilante class fits all of those criteria, however NONE of its specializations or archetypes do (i.e. they're all class features, but many are mutually exclusive).


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ChaosTicket wrote:

Note: The secondary class feature was a example. Increases to initiative are useful, but so are boosts to all skills like the Bardic Knowledge and Jack-of-all-trades.

Any combat feat you can choose also allows spell feats. Fighter-only-feats, there is only one that I know that important and it for the Archery fighting style Feat: Point Blank Master. I dont know if other Fighting styles also require Fighter to get them.
-----------------------------
Hunter is quite good. It doesnt get all the feats for Fighting Styles.

Inquisitor is similar. Doesnt have martial weapons and can't go far into Fighting Styles.

Charisma classes could fit in as the Skald and (battle) Oracle mentioned, but In my instance I have a Point Buy character system, so Charisma is a dump stat for Strength, dexterity, Constitution, and anything else.

Yeah point buy is limited. That is the point. But having and using 6th level spell casting requires at least moderate stat investment into a mental stat. Are you outright adding the no cha based caster requirement? Also do you know what fighting style you want?


Dastis wrote:


Yeah point buy is limited. That is the point. But having and using 6th level spell casting requires at least moderate stat investment into a mental stat. Are you outright adding the no cha based caster requirement? Also do you know what fighting style you want?

Im not banning ideas. A Charisma class is just unlikely to be able to match a Jack-of-all-trades because you would need every stat meaning Multiple-Ability-Dependency collapse.

Oracle would require at least 15 charisma to be able to cast tier 9 spells by the time they become available, without requiring magical items. Thats assuming ALL ability point growth is directed at Charisma, and nothing else. I don't think you can make tier 9 casters well-rounded.

Skald and Bard are easier as they only require CHA 16 far later. Making them well-rounded characters is possible.

I personally prefer Archery as a Fighting style, but others use alot of feats. Two-weapon fighting takes several feats just to have an advantage over using a two-handed weapon.


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Good to see your open minded :)

Sadly a Jack of all trades is by definition at least somewhat MAD

Unforchunately your going to have to pick a mental score to boost in order to use Lv6 spells. They are fairly equal looking at the big picture though I would rate wisdom as a little more useful than the other 2

I would mention that adding +2 to an ability score as a secondary enchantment is only 6000gp. Putting a 14 in and 6000gp is totally worth the cost


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The Occultist?
- Simple and Martial Weapons Proficiencies
- Light and Medium Armors plus Shield Proficiencies
- 6th-level spells, which are arcane spells cast as psychic spells
- Medium BAB
- Different implements, including a healing power if you get a Conjuration item


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Finding a 3/4 BAB 2/3 Caster, Light+Medium+shield, martial weapon proficiency, 6+ Skills, Bonus fighter feats is not only virtually impossible, but also completely unnecessary.

Archer's don't need medium Armour or shields
Heavy Armour Characters don't need dex, they need STR, CON and maybe a casting stat.
Casters don't need bonus feats they have spells
Characters with light Armour should consider Dex melee builds.
Heirloom Weapon gives you a martial weapon as a trait.

Light Armour characters can hit the same AC as heavy Armour characters through Dex until you hit Celestial full plate, Caster's don't need fighter feats they have spells. Only switch hitters need martial weapon proficiency any other character can take one trait since characters specialize in one weapon 9 times out of 10.

The Exchange

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With the right inquisition u can dump cha and still be face with wisdom thats also important for spellcasting and perception.


ChaosTicket wrote:

Jack-of-all-trades class

15BAB, d8 hit points, 4-6+ skill points before intelligence modifier

Simple+martial weapon proficiency, shield+light+medium armor proficiency

Tier 6 spells

Bonus (combat) feats(Fighter-only feats in particular)

At least 1 Class feature with combat bonuses.
Minor class features with bonuses to Initiative, and skills optional, but useful.
======================================
Do any current classes with or without archetypes fit this?

I know there are some close ones but Im looking for one that fits ALL these criteria.

What are Tier 6 spells?


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MeanMutton wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

Jack-of-all-trades class

15BAB, d8 hit points, 4-6+ skill points before intelligence modifier

Simple+martial weapon proficiency, shield+light+medium armor proficiency

Tier 6 spells

Bonus (combat) feats(Fighter-only feats in particular)

At least 1 Class feature with combat bonuses.
Minor class features with bonuses to Initiative, and skills optional, but useful.
======================================
Do any current classes with or without archetypes fit this?

I know there are some close ones but Im looking for one that fits ALL these criteria.

What are Tier 6 spells?

They mean 6th level spells. So the requirement is a 6th level caster.


Hmm, how about a multiclassed ranger (or a prestige class with spell progression)? It meets pretty much all requirements outside of level 6 spells, so it can work well as a base.

Grand Lodge

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Battle Scion Skald. It doesn't get Fighter-only feats, but otherwise gets a Bonus combat feat/3 levels if you prefer them over Rage Powers, Inspired Rage as a combat bonus.

Battle/Stone Spirit Shaman also gets a lot of this (as full 9th level casters,) but only fairly specific feats (Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Mini-Combat Reflexes.) Swift action Bane is a pretty solid combat bonus. You get Pounce at 20th if you care. Unsworn Shaman, or Possessed Shaman are potential variations here.


Skald seems a good start. Aside from relatively low skill points it seems to have awesome potential effects by combining physical prowess, magic, Inspiring Rage for your party, and rage powers for everyone.

Seriously who doesnt want to have a heavy metal warrior?

So quick profile for one:

Skald, half-orc
STR 14(5)+2, DEX 14(5), CON 14(5), INT 10(0), WIS 10(0), CHA 14(5)

Alternate racial traits: sacred tattoos, Shaman's apprentice
Traits: Reactionary, fate's favored

Level 1 Feat, Power Attack

equipment: Scale mail armor, Lucerne Hammer, spiked gauntlet, sling

I even thought out some rage powers: Beast totem 1 level 3, beast totem 2, level 6, beast totem 3 level 12.


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Finding a 3/4 BAB 2/3 Caster, Light+Medium+shield, martial weapon proficiency, 6+ Skills, Bonus fighter feats is not only virtually impossible, but also completely unnecessary.

Archer's don't need medium Armour or shields

Shield no, armor potentially yes. If your opponents have archers as well (plus the same ways of punching through magical defenses as you do), it might be good to have at least average armor.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Heavy Armour Characters don't need dex, they need STR, CON and maybe a casting stat.

Dex is still important for Initiative and Touch AC, and depending upon what you're doing, you might want it to be able to make more AoOs.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Casters don't need bonus feats they have spells

Even a Wizard needs feats. For that matter, so do other casters, but many of the others get additional class features that help reduce the need for feats. (The notable exception is Cleric, although Cleric makes up for that in power if not in interest by being d8 3/4 BAB with 9/9 spellcasting instead of being 6/9 like a class that tough should be.)

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Characters with light Armour should consider Dex melee builds.

That part makes sense.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Heirloom Weapon gives you a martial weapon as a trait. {. . .}

Problem with Heirloom Weapon is that if anything bad happens to it, you're out of luck and have a permanently dead trait.

Grand Lodge

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Versatile Performance helps with the skill points some.

I generally find Dex less relevant for a Skald. I might try Str 15/Dex 13 so you can get to 18 Str at 4th.

Strength Surge, Savage Dirty Trick, Unexpected Strike have served pretty well, but Beast Totem to get the whole group pounce looks great. I'd grab the Tusked trait over Reactionary, for a Claw/Claw/Bite at level 3.

And Battle Scion lets you pick up combat or teamwork feats instead. If you're not going Battle Scion, Urban Skald, Fated Champion, or Spell Warrior can all be great.

It's worth mentioning that (Skald's Vigor+) Greater Skald's Vigor are awesome to build towards around 10-11. You didn't mention healing initially, but giving the whole party FH 4 is great. Exquisite Accompaniment+ a Minor Extend Rod gives you 80 points of healing to the whole group for a third level spell.

Scarab Sages

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As was mentioned above, Hunter is basically perfect. Great spellcasting, great proficiencies, lots of skills, and an animal companion for all the combat bonuses that come along with it. If you really want some buff versatility, take the Verminous Hunter archetype and work your companion death into your backstory. You get Fast Healing 1 at 1st level, solid animal focus buffs when needed, and the druid/ranger spell list is a good bit better for out-of-combat utility than Bard and Inquisitor spell lists.

When my next character meets his untimely end, or I start in a new game, I'll probably make one myself.


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ChaosTicket wrote:

Skald seems a good start. Aside from relatively low skill points it seems to have awesome potential effects by combining physical prowess, magic, Inspiring Rage for your party, and rage powers for everyone.

Seriously who doesnt want to have a heavy metal warrior?

So quick profile for one:

Skald, half-orc
STR 14(5)+2, DEX 14(5), CON 14(5), INT 10(0), WIS 10(0), CHA 14(5)

Alternate racial traits: sacred tattoos, Shaman's apprentice
Traits: Reactionary, fate's favored

Level 1 Feat, Power Attack

equipment: Scale mail armor, Lucerne Hammer, spiked gauntlet, sling

I even thought out some rage powers: Beast totem 1 level 3, beast totem 2, level 6, beast totem 3 level 12.

You don't qualify for Power Attack (BAB +1 required).

In addition, the skald really only works in a melee-heavy party. Pounce means nothing to an archer or spellcaster. If your jack-of-all-trades only works in a specific party type, it's not really a jack-of-all-trades.

You do get more skill points with Versatile Performance... provided you wanted all those social skills. Plus if I'm reading this right they get to choose 4 from 5 different Perform skills, unlike the bard who gets 9 choices. You will be doubling up on Diplomacy, probably Handle Animal, Bluff, and Sense Motive. There's only 5 possible skills you can get from it.

Overall, the build looks like an average fighter, a mediocre skill monkey, and a buff-only caster. I'd love it as a barbarian... and hate it as an archer/wizard/everything else (because bard would be better).


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In a Skull and Shackles game I'm playing a Half-Elf Hexcrafter Magus that's a decent jack-of-all-trades. Starting ability scores with 20 PB were Str- 14, Dex- 14, Con- 14, Int- 18, Wis- 8, Cha- 7.

Int focused for strong Hexes, and Magus arcanas let me make up the attack deficit from lower Strength. Also gives me lots of skill points to play with.

Student of Philosophy and Half-Elf racial traits let me max Bluff and Diplomacy for social interactions while still dumping Charisma. Dual Minded, strong Will save, and the bonus to saves against Enchantments made Wisdom unnecessary so I dumped that too. I traded the Perception bonus for a bonus to Profession (Sailor), but it could have helped pad the Magus not having it as a skill.

Got a Familiar with the Protector archetype to pad my health. Also the Magus gets medium and heavy armor later. Paragon Surge lets me grab situational Hexes if I want them.

Magus is already a good damage engine, and its spell list has enough utility to enable branching out into other roles, like scouting with Invisibility. And I even have wands of Infernal Healing to deal with my HP damage.

I still ask the other PCs for help when its their area of expertise, but he's a very self-sufficient character that can normally handle just about anything on his own.


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Vigilante Warlock?


PhD. Okkam wrote:
Vigilante Warlock?

If the Viglante Warlock archetype didnt lose access to the Avenger specialization, and therefore bonus feats, that would be an interesting alternative to the Magus.

There are plenty of close ideas. Ill look into them more later.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:


Shield no, armor potentially yes. If your opponents have archers as well (plus the same ways of punching through magical defenses as you do), it might be good to have at least average armor.

Archer's benefit from Dex to Armour with light Armour, Dex being their main stat they get more from having light Armour and Dex than medium armor with a Dex to armor restriction.

Quote:


Dex is still important for Initiative and Touch AC, and depending upon what you're doing, you might want it to be able to make more AoOs.

Every single stat is important you can't have them all and heavy armor characters get decidedly less from Dex than other characters, no point in being a gymnast wearing plate.

Quote:


Even a Wizard needs feats. For that matter, so do other casters, but many of the others get additional class features that help reduce the need for feats. (The notable exception is Cleric, although Cleric makes up for that in power if not in interest by being d8 3/4 BAB with 9/9 spellcasting instead of being 6/9 like a class that tough should be.)

the thread is asking for fighter specific feats on 2/3 classes not feats in general, no class doesn't get feats so the argument classes need feats is mute. My point is 2/3 casters don't need fighter feats because they get spells which invalidate whole feat trees (Bowstaff)

Quote:


Problem with Heirloom Weapon is that if anything bad happens to it, you're out of luck and have a permanently dead trait.

I think it would take a very straight laced DM to rule, you're proficient with that greatsword for 5 levels it breaks and you're completely stumped by every other greatsword.


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Been following this since I love jack of all trades. I'm gonna agree with the investigator with a single dip in swashbuckler (currently building one for my backup)

The dip into a inspired swashbuckler means you will be dex based (can keep str down) and with a min 1 panache from cha and bonus to int you can have a decent start...you get buckler and all martial weapons...even though you are focused on rapier you could still pull out a bow and be pretty decent.

Then on to the empiricist investigator... being able to add 1D6 to any trained knowledge, spellcraft and linguistic to start is always nice not to mention trapfinding bonuses... at level two you can add int to many skills and you can pretty much be the face of the party with 0 cha (pick up student of philosophy) Personally I've tinkered with taking the feat for divine obedience to irori and get +4 to all knowledge skills since there is so much to take and only so many skill points. at level 3 pick up mutagen (seriously who would want +4 dex and +2 ac sadly -2 wis though) then get quick study for studied target.

So a character that would be pretty decent in melee...soso in range...able to compete with a bard and can pick a trap like a rogue... Sadly no spells just alchemy (chemical spells) but you can get a decent UMD pretty easy) For point buy mainly worry about dex and int maybe 12 in wis and a ok con but go to town from there


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


Shield no, armor potentially yes. If your opponents have archers as well (plus the same ways of punching through magical defenses as you do), it might be good to have at least average armor.
Archer's benefit from Dex to Armour with light Armour, Dex being their main stat they get more from having light Armour and Dex than medium armor with a Dex to armor restriction.

That's what Armor Training is for, if you can get it: Fighter (although a distressing number of archetypes trade it out), Fighter hybrid archetype of something else, or VMC Fighter.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


Dex is still important for Initiative and Touch AC, and depending upon what you're doing, you might want it to be able to make more AoOs.
Every single stat is important you can't have them all and heavy armor characters get decidedly less from Dex than other characters, no point in being a gymnast wearing plate.

Get enough ranks of Armor Training and Mithril Plate, and you can profit as a gymnast wearing plate. Hellknight Armor Training and Hellknight Plate also helps with this.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


Even a Wizard needs feats. For that matter, so do other casters, but many of the others get additional class features that help reduce the need for feats. (The notable exception is Cleric, although Cleric makes up for that in power if not in interest by being d8 3/4 BAB with 9/9 spellcasting instead of being 6/9 like a class that tough should be.)
the thread is asking for fighter specific feats on 2/3 classes not feats in general, no class doesn't get feats so the argument classes need feats is mute. My point is 2/3 casters don't need fighter feats because they get spells which invalidate whole feat trees (Bowstaff)

Yes, some classes get no feats. (Characters using these class still get feats, but not from their classes.) Bard and Skald are examples of 6/9 casters that get no feats. Fortunately, they get plenty of other class features. Keep in mind that in most cases a spell doesn't invalidate a feat tree for very long (I might have missed a few examples of really long duration spells that do), so feats are still good to have.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


Problem with Heirloom Weapon is that if anything bad happens to it, you're out of luck and have a permanently dead trait.
I think it would take a very straight laced DM to rule, you're proficient with that greatsword for 5 levels it breaks and you're completely stumped by every other greatsword.

Just saying what the Rules As Written are . . . And in something like PFS, the GM is REQUIRED to be straight-laced about the rules (although PFS might have a specific rule overriding this for that trait and I missed it).


I am currently playing a monk1/investigator2. I get trapfinding, high perception, great skills, along with flurry of blows with the sansetsukon.

I will end up with a character better at skills than virtually any other class, extracts, mutagen, studied combat, great initiative (lamplighter archtype), decent DPR, and high AC.

A lot of your requirements disappear if you consider a 1 level dip in another class.


nicholas storm wrote:

I am currently playing a monk1/investigator2. I get trapfinding, high perception, great skills, along with flurry of blows with the sansetsukon.

I will end up with a character better at skills than virtually any other class, extracts, mutagen, studied combat, great initiative (lamplighter archtype), decent DPR, and high AC.

A lot of your requirements disappear if you consider a 1 level dip in another class.

Ok, so you don't need armor in your campaign? Monk can't use Flurry with armor on. Biggest problem with Monks early on is that their AC is minimal. Your character would be a glass hammer is combat.

Fighter is possibly the best class to dip into. You get all armor proficiencies, simple and martial weapons, and a bonus combat feat. Problem is that having even 1 level outside your primary(and probably caster) class is that you would at best always be 1 level behind for spells, class abilities, DC, and feats. Its more effective to just have more proficiencies default in a class.

The Investigator is quite good just by itself, just doesnt have strong armor or weapon proficiencies.


Probably suit "Studious Librarian" Bard archetype of InnerSea Intrigue...


monster tactician/heretic inquisitor + reformation inquisition


Rogue or Inquisitor seems the best fit.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:


That's what Armor Training is for, if you can get it: Fighter (although a distressing number of archetypes trade it out), Fighter hybrid archetype of something else, or VMC Fighter.

For doing something you don't need. Just take light Armour enjoy never having to worry about encumbrance and spend your feats and class abilities on something worthwhile. An Archer with Mithril chain and 22 Dex has the same AC as a guy is full plate with 12 dex. They have no encumbrance issues and no armor check penalty with literally no investment is fixing their armor problems because they don't have any and don't need to.

Quote:


Get enough ranks of Armor Training and Mithril Plate, and you can profit as a gymnast wearing plate. Hellknight Armor Training and Hellknight Plate also helps with this.

get enough of X and you can do Y this is true for almost everything in the game. . There is no actual reason to put that much effort into wearing heavy plate for an archer however.

Quote:

Yes, some classes get no feats. (Characters using these class still get feats, but not from their classes.) Bard and Skald...

Your line of argument is completely pointless because you get feats from leveling up so both bards and skald's get feats and don't need more. They have spells like bowstaff for instance which replicates the entire empty quiver feat tree for one first level spell that lasts rounds per level. Thats what you can do with a first level spell. Bards get 6 levels.


@UnArcaneElection, @Chromantic Durgon <3

please take your private war somewhere else.

1 Arguments about armor? Armor is very necessary early on where the difference between 15 and 20 AC is life and death. nobody wants to see an argument of Light Vs Heavy armor.

2 Bonus feats, i like them because they actually allow more variations than a strict "pick this to not suck" feat structure. Personally Id like those semi-exclusive feats like Point Blank Master be available to more people. Ranger Fighting Styles for other classes would fit that, too bad Ranger isnt so great.

3 I like options. There are plenty of middle-ground in the hybrid classes. Some very clearly shift in favor of one-side or the other through class abilities. The Hunter for example has a pretty cool animal companion as a second warrior on your team. Investigator on the other hand has plenty of skills and specialist abilities.

I personally favor combat becomes its more practical and immediately useful. I still try to plan accordingly, hence why why Im so reluctant to use a Fighter or Barbarian. I don't know if that animal companion will still be useful at level 20, and I doubt it because at the very least it means you split magic items between two characters. Someone pointed out the Skald's Inspired Rage only helps melee characters, and so on.

Im not done here, but thanks to everyone for the ideas. I like to read and hear what people think.

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