I'd like to start this by saying I personally like the idea of antimagic zones, and the ability to generate them, as a way to challenge PCs and counter NPCs. But I hate the Antimagic Field spell. It can only be used in incredibly one-sided ways, usually* to the caster's dismay, it very rarely works as advertised** and if it does work, its one of the most boring tricks for the table. As a GM, I avoid tricks that eliminate players from combats. But still I like the idea of areas where magic doesn't work well. I often fiat areas where concentration checks (of appropriate difficulty for the party) are needed, or where wildmagic exists and your spell might be a rod of wonder. But I was curious, in any of the various splatbooks and 3pp products for PF, are there options for players to make "magic-free" areas centered on areas, or objects, or the like? Or is there some obvious use for this I am missing?
Ring of Spell Storing and the Ioun stone that is similar. Let the fighter cast the AMF when he approaches the enemy caster.
For a different option: magic is fickle and capricious and doesn't like being manipulated by mere mortals. Spell casters must enforce their will on an unwilling reality. Every spell requires a concentration check, the DC equal to 10 + 3 times the spell level.
Spell like abilities and supernatural powers do not require a concentration check. The feat: combat casting and the trait: focused mind provide their full normal bonuses on the concentration check.
Note: additional concentration checks may be required if casting defensively etc. Some areas may be easier or more difficult to cast spells, modify DC accordingly. Divine casters may get bonuses if strictly following the wishes of their deity (GM's call).
My players have learned to love AMF. It's something that people who rate casters into Tier 1 normally don't take into consideration, that if casters are truly that powerful, ANYONE worth their spit is going to have some way to have an AMF around them if they are higher level.
Of course, if it's fair for the players...it's fair for the GM.
There are ways around the AMF, and ways that casters can still be highly effective against those who have an AMF active (though the caster is benefited by NOT actually being in the field, but outside of it), and still would be considered Tier 1.
With AMF there are objects/magic items (we had an indepth discussion a while ago about this) which players can obtain which give them an AMF effect (and the person taking the Magic-user side basically had to say their Magic-user would get molten Magma stones each time from wherever they would get it, fly really high, and drop them [needing a 20 to hit from the range they were dropping them] to kill the people with the AMF [without the consideration that they might not be outside even!] and other really insane things just to be able to take part in combat. It's actually FAR easier than that to be effective, such as casting at the environment AROUND the AMF for example).
You can enchant magic items with AMF, IF the players can find a caster that would actually do this for them.
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But I was curious, in any of the various splatbooks and 3pp products for PF, are there options for players to make "magic-free" areas centered on areas, or objects, or the like? Or is there some obvious use for this I am missing?
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I don't know about the splatbooks or 3pp products, but the CRB has the Arcane Archer. A two-level dip gets you Imbue Arrow.
Imbue Arrow (Su): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.
Using this with AMF is a common trick.
High level fighters with UMD love scrolls of Anti-Magic Field :)
All those boring incremental increases work just fine in an AMF. The same cannot be said for the abilities of most high level opponents.
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If you possess your martial team-mate, then cast AMF, would the AMF boot you out and back into yourself? You could then dismiss the possession spell, and everyone's happy!
Unless the GM rules that by "suppressed", your soul is stuck helplessly in your team-mate, who takes over as normal until the AMF wears off. You could probably still dismiss the spell, though.
If you possess your martial team-mate, then cast AMF, would the AMF boot you out and back into yourself? You could then dismiss the possession spell, and everyone's happy!
Unless the GM rules that by "suppressed", your soul is stuck helplessly in your team-mate, who takes over as normal until the AMF wears off. You could probably still dismiss the spell, though.
Cast it on you familiar and have the familiar hop a ride on the fighter.
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Thanks for responding. I don't want the following to give the wrong idea, amny of these ideas are good ones. I am just hoping to find something that might work a bit more often for me than many of these. Not to say they don't work for most...its just that they reauire a different level of teamwork and GM cooperation than I have access to.
Re: Letting Fighters cast it:
An interesting Idea, but it doesn't really work well for the groups I am in. Many don't want to lose their magical "bling" for 110 minutes (minimum) because we fight a lot of creatures which either fly, have lots of strong natural attacks, can use magic in the area, or otherwise are affected minimally by this. The spell-storing idea is cool, but will probably come up even less likely than me casting it. Might give this ti a few NPCs though.
Re: Dweomersinks:
Thanks for showing me that, I hadn't noticed it. Unfortunately I am hoping to make use of this more as a player. As a GM I use variants of the spell and effect based on what it (one version can be cast on vaults, another grants SR to everything, no save, another requires concentration checks, so on and so forth). But I doubt I could get others who GM for me to make any of them a PC-available spell.
Re: Arcane Archers & Familiar Centers:
I'm a tad hesitant on this, though it is the best solution I've seen. I could probably spare feats on bow proficiency, but I feel that between high defenses of casters, and low accuracy of casters, AMF will be wasted more often than not. The familiar idea isn't too bad I suppose, though I will need to find a more tanky familiar. Or be willing to replace often.
Antimagic Field is a broken holdover from AD&D 1.0. It is fixed at 6th level, but trumps spells of all levels, even up to 3 levels above it (with a couple of specific exceptions that create forcefields, such as Prismatic Wall|Sphere, but for some reason not Prismatic Spray). Even the related spells Lesser (used to be Minor) Globe of Invulnerability and Globe of Invulnerability work in a weird way, although their weirdness runs the opposite way: Globe of Invulnerability is 2 levels higher than Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, but only defends against spells 1 level higher.
The lot should be scrapped and replaced with properly scaling spells in a ranked series (Antimagic Field I - IX) -- each rank of Antimagic Field inhibits magic of lower caster level than itself(*) and lower spell level (not including Metamagic other than Heighten Spell) than itself:
Lower or equal caster level and lower spell level: Not getting through;
Lower or equal caster level but equal or higher spell level, or higher caster level but lower spell level: Do caster level check to see if the spell can get through;
Higher caster level and higher or equal spell level: Getting through, no questions asked.
(*)Both sides of the caster level comparison take into account anything that boosts effective caster level in any way that qualifies for assisting with overcoming spell resistance, so this means most types of caster level boost, but not ones specific to boosting spell duration or level-dependent variables.
* * * * * * * *
For existing Paizo rules, here are some ways to greatly improve your chances of the arrow landing:
1. True Strike, either Quickened and cast just before your spell/ImBue Arrow combination, or have a UMD-capable Familiar UMD a Wand or Scroll of it to enable you with it via Share Spells, again timed to go off just before you fire your Imbued Arrow.
2. If you are doing this at fairly close range a lot, dip 1 level in Hooded Champion Ranger (and take Magical Knack to compensate for the 2 levels of caster level loss, 1 from the dip and 1 from Arcane Archer 1st level). Use your Dead Aim Deed to make your attack be Ranged Touch instead of normal Ranged. Note that this martial dip also gets you proficiency with Bows (useful if you didn't get proficiency from being an Elf; this saves you a feat).
3. If you've got #2 above, might as well combine it with #1 above against targets that are really hard to hit.
There is a spell that counters Antimagic field it's called Spellbane
You can also just not stand next to the person and shoot them to death with various projectiles.
Antimagic Field trumps almost all spells, as mentioned above. I forgot about Aroden's Spellbane -- this lists the handful of other spells that Antimagic Field doesn't trump. (And I think you can't cast it in an Antimagic Field -- you have to get going outside the Antimagic Field, and then move in. (And then Aroden's Spellbane trumps all the spells that Antimagic Field can't trump, including itself, but can only trump a very limited number of spells chosen at the time of casting. And what happens if 2 opposing spellcasters cast it and then get into range of each other after specifying Aroden's Spellbane as negated spells when they cast it? Each one negates the other, but is then suppressed, allowing the other one to resume, except by random glitch, one might take effect just before the other and randomly win, regardless of the caster level.
With respect to Blightburn Paste, it sounds like that is just nasty radioactive stuff that does what it does, regardless of Antimagic Field.
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Re: Arcane Archers & Familiar Centers:
I'm a tad hesitant on this, though it is the best solution I've seen. I could probably spare feats on bow proficiency, but I feel that between high defenses of casters, and low accuracy of casters, AMF will be wasted more often than not.
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True Strike pretty much solves the low accuracy problem. Let other members of your team make ranged attacks first to use up any "Deflect Arrow" type defenses. And you don't necessarily have to target creatures. I can see the BBEG leading the party through a maze while leaving behind AMFs on statues and shrubbery strategically located near traps, monsters, etc.
as far as stuff to mess around with magic, "Inner sea magic" has rules for wild magic, where spells don't always do what they are supposed to.
there are also some variant rules in Pathfinder Unchained for reduced spell casting, active spell casting and unstable spell casting.
Why do people keep saying to put AMF on the fighter? That's a terrible idea. Unless the fighter has Ex flight they're not reaching any opponents with a melee weapon.
1. Get to your opponent beforehand. Unless he has EX flight, he's coming down with you.
2. If the game is high enough level for AMF to come into play, the fighter should have feats allowing him to exert battlefield control. Step-Up / Stand Still at a minimum.
Antimagic Field trumps almost all spells, as mentioned above. I forgot about Aroden's Spellbane -- this lists the handful of other spells that Antimagic Field doesn't trump. (And I think you can't cast it in an Antimagic Field -- you have to get going outside the Antimagic Field, and then move in. (And then Aroden's Spellbane trumps all the spells that Antimagic Field can't trump, including itself, but can only trump a very limited number of spells chosen at the time of casting. And what happens if 2 opposing spellcasters cast it and then get into range of each other after specifying Aroden's Spellbane as negated spells when they cast it? Each one negates the other, but is then suppressed, allowing the other one to resume, except by random glitch, one might take effect just before the other and randomly win, regardless of the caster level.
With respect to Blightburn Paste, it sounds like that is just nasty radioactive stuff that does what it does, regardless of Antimagic Field.
Well If you're casting spellbane when you encounter an AMF you have bigger problems as it lasts 1 hour per level So 17 hours minimum so it really should be up and running esp if your paranoid about being stuck in an AMF.
Also AMF trumps all spells in that if you are standing in it you cannot cast. But there are spells that circumvent an AMF and let you hurt the user.
Snowball, Acid Splash, Telekinesis violent thrust, Planar binding, Conjure Deadfall, Summon monster X which has a ranged attack (Lantern Archon's for example), Undead minions; can all harm someone who is in an AMF. Said person is also rather vulnerable as their magical defenses and stat boosts have been stripped away.
Also Wall of force like effects shut it down as well. Emergency force sphere makes you effectively immune and I believe (i'm unsure if you can cast into an AMFwith spells that are unaffected by it) but a resilient sphere (functions as wall of force) cast onto the person which the AMF is centered on would nullify the AMF rather completely.
If the cleric opens the box, whether with a cantrip or not, he will be the target of the stored glyph spell. Same problem with a Marker Dye Arrow even if you interpret pretty loosely what 'Opened' means.
Why do people keep saying to put AMF on the fighter? That's a terrible idea. Unless the fighter has Ex flight they're not reaching any opponents with a melee weapon.1. Get to your opponent beforehand. Unless he has EX flight, he's coming down with you.
2. If the game is high enough level for AMF to come into play, the fighter should have feats allowing him to exert battlefield control. Step-Up / Stand Still at a minimum.Get to the opponent and... what? Cast it yourself? That'll be the end of your turn (and you would need to already have the scroll in hand). The familiar plan would at least leave you with a standard action left, but now you're prone at the bottom of your fall. Either you grapple (the penalties balance) and tank your melee AC (-4 prone, -4 Dex, no magical AC boosts) or you stand up and the wizard has a chance to escape. Again, assuming a wizard and not something like a battle cleric or monster with a half-decent chance of not being grappled in the first place.
If you fly up to a wizard, and are able to get adjacent to him with your move action, you can cast AMF as a standard action with your scroll. You and the wizard both end up prone on the ground next to each other.
The wizard can stand, then can either 5 ft step or move. If he tries to move, you trip him off the AOO; in an AMF, you should be able to pull this off while prone with fairly high probability, especially if you took any trip feats. If he 5 ft steps, he's inside the AMF still. In that case, you stand, 5 ft step and trip him. You should have a very good chance of never allowing the wizard out of the AMF.
There are some counters to this, like the caster can potentially acrobatics out with his move action, but it is actually a reasonably effective tactic.
Antimagic Field is a broken holdover from AD&D 1.0. It is fixed at 6th level, but trumps spells of all levels, even up to 3 levels above it (with a couple of specific exceptions that create forcefields, such as Prismatic Wall|Sphere, but for some reason not Prismatic Spray). Even the related spells Lesser (used to be Minor) Globe of Invulnerability and Globe of Invulnerability work in a weird way, although their weirdness runs the opposite way: Globe of Invulnerability is 2 levels higher than Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, but only defends against spells 1 level higher.
Unlike the Invulnerability spells however, AMF shuts down the caster as well. Most wizard type characters don't cast the spell for this reason.
^Not saying that Antimagic Field is less messed up than these spells, just that these particular types of spells have some really messed up writing inherited from the Great Egg.
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The Movanic Deva were summoned or they were called through Planar binding and a contract?
Antimagic Field works on the caster. If they are summoned, the Movanic Devas wink out as soon as they cast the spell.
If they are called they are present in their physical body and will stay while under the effect of the Antimagic Field.
As they have SR it is possible that you had them check their SR against the field and they resisted it, but it is an emanation centered on them. it is questionable to say that the spell worked at all if it was resisted with SR.
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I think I get it - they were summoned, and it's the summon magic keeping them on the Material Plane, so the AMF would suppress that and cause them to wink out and back home. Wish I would have understood this during the session, as now it's gonna be a big issue when we talk about it next session.
It is even more absurd than that. The AMF is anchored on the Movanic Deva, so it suppresses the summoning and the Deva disappears, but that removes the AMF and the Deva reappears, but he brings back the AMF with him, so it disappears again, and that cycle repeat, again and again, every millisecond.
Movanic Devas have Spell Resistance of 21.
Antimagic Field allows a summoned creature with SR to a attempt a roll to not wink out.
If, as Diego Rossi says, the summoned creature winks in and out (which, looking at Antimagic Field, he's completely right), the Movanic Devas will succeed after a few milliseconds of winking in and out and then stick around.
Assuming I'm right in where you are in MM, it's not THE end fight, right?
I'd fully allow the summons to stutter a little and then stick around.
But remember, anything that enters the field (eg: projectile weapons) lose their magic before they hit the target.
OH! Since the two are close to each other they each get one roll to see if SR protects them from winking out, if they both fail they both disappear and then immediately come back, each get a roll again until one (or both) succeeds.
If only one succeeds the other one comes back once the successful one moves far enough away.