|
I'm sure this has been asked before, but the only forum post I can find on it never got an answer. The ability grab from bestiary 1 stated that grab only worked on smaller creatures. From Bestiary 2 on grab has worked on the same or smaller. From what i can tell the original rules were used in the original summoner and the evolution was carried over verbatim. My question is ,which is the rule, do I go by the ability grab or the specific entry even though it has been errata'd in another book?
|
|
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.
This is the bestiary 2 Rule and the current rule for as far as i can tell how grab has been used since.
Grab (Ex): The eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Select one of the following attacks: bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability works only on creatures at least one size category smaller than the eidolon. Eidolons with this evolution gain a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks to grapple.
For those of you two lazy to look it up.
Specifics over-ride general rules and newer books over-ride older books. So the Bestiary 2 rules for Grab are generally used, but the Eidolon has specific rules, including a size limit and a bonus to the check.
EDIT: And the Errata for Bestiary 1 has changed the rule, so that generally grab works on same size and smaller.
PS - Enlarge Person is the Eidolon's friend (When cast by the Summoner)
|
|
Specifics over-ride general rules and newer books over-ride older books. So the Bestiary 2 rules for Grab are generally used, but the Eidolon has specific rules, including a size limit and a bonus to the check.
EDIT: And the Errata for Bestiary 1 has changed the rule, so that generally grab works on same size and smaller.
PS - Enlarge Person is the Eidolon's friend (When cast by the Summoner)
So basically unless someone comes out officially and says yes eidolon's grab ability should be changed to be the same as the Bestiary errata, which literally everything else that gets grab has been, then I just go by whatever the specific description says?
I mean I'd be fine if it was something along the lines of, all Animal Companions, Familiars, and Summoned creatures can only use grab. But literally everything but the eidolon's grab changed with that. Regardless I'm just going to make him huge anyway but, it still makes me sad.
Also enlarge person does not work on an eidolon. It is not a humanoid.
The Share Spells ability of the eidolon lets the summoner ignore that restriction when casting summoner spells on his eidolon.
|
|
So they do, I never noticed that they changed this from the original summoner. Wait so what I'm hearing is that I make my eidolon have the huge evolution than cast enlarge person on it and i now have a Gargantuan eidolon........... Give me a minute I have to rethink my life choices. So I take power attack as an eidolon feat, use the rest on extra evolution feats, at lv 12 im looking at around 20 evolutions....10 to become huge, grab and swallow whole is another 5..then I take this and that.
And that's why Fighters cry themselves to sleep at night.
So they do, I never noticed that they changed this from the original summoner.
Original summoner had this text too.
Share Spells (Ex)
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.
And, yes, simply the primary class feature of the summoner obsoletes the Fighter. And this is without touching on the fact that They are still a six-spell-level caster with access to very powerful summoning magic.
|
|
I had always been told that the original summoner eidolons took the subtype of the summoner. We had an Aasimar original summoner who was told that he could not enlarge as his eidolon took his outsider substype. Once ult. campaign was released he retrained to be scion of humanity so it stopped being an issue. But, regardless that is interesting, i had never had a reason to check if that was accurate or not.
My summoner kinda gimped himself as what I really wanted to play as was a dragon. I didn't really want to have two strong characters as I felt having an eidolon who is going to hit mid 30's in strength and a decent caster seemed too strong. Hello having max con stat and taking augmented summoning, extra evolution feats, and all of the evolution surge spells.
If you're really into grappling you might give your eidolon Improved Grapple, and then you can grapple things at least up to your size, probably at least one size larger, and possibly of any size (the Pathfinder rules don't really say if there's a size limit on Grapple, so the groups I play with use the old 3.5 rule of up to one size larger)
If you're really into grappling you might give your eidolon Improved Grapple, and then you can grapple things at least up to your size, probably at least one size larger, and possibly of any size (the Pathfinder rules don't really say if there's a size limit on Grapple, so the groups I play with use the old 3.5 rule of up to one size larger)sorry i know this post is over a year old but im building my first Eidolon. well i made it snakish with bite, extended bite, grab bite and bite a second time for 1.5 str damage.
was looking at getting improved grapple but that improved unarmed strike seems to be a waist. seeing as the ability is tied to an attack that is not unarmed does the Eidolon need to take imporved unarmed strike to get improved grapple?
You want Improved Unarmed Strike. It is a prereq for both Improved Grapple and Kraken Style.