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Okay, not just the example, but the example is the first that comes to mind.
Toxic Spell, metamagic:
Prerequisites: Craft (poison) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level spells, poison use class feature.
Benefit: You can use 1 dose of contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury poison as an additional material component for a spell you cast. This spell gains the poison descriptor (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 138). Select a single creature affected by the spell. If that creature fails its saving throw against the spell, it must also attempt a saving throw against the poison used as a material component. If the target fails the save against the poison, the poison takes effect immediately, ignoring any onset time. The poison uses its save DC (rather than the save DC of the spell), but is modified by any effects that increase the spell’s DC (such as Spell Focus). This feat works only with spells whose effects can be negated by a successful Fortitude save. A toxic spell uses up a spell slot 1 level higher than the spell’s actual level.
If the caster has an ability that permits ignoring material components up to a certain GP value, and the selected additional material component fits within that, does it apply?
For further example, False Focus:
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 1 rank, ability to cast arcane spells.
Benefit: By using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component. For example, if you use a silver holy symbol worth 25 gp, you do not have to provide material components for an arcane spell if its components are worth 25 gp or less. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than the value of the divine focus, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.
Normal: A divine focus has no effect when used as a component in arcane spells.
So, with a 90gp holy symbol, can I use Small Centipede Poison as an ignored material component of a spell cast with the Toxic spell metamagic feat?
Both a PFS and normal game question. I'm mostly unclear regarding the concept of additional material components and if they qualify as material components with regard to feats and abilities that modify their requirement.
By intent, obviously not.
By text, I would say "you can cast any spell...without needing the component" only allows you to cast the spell, not to gain any bonus from a component that you choose not to use.
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By intent, obviously not.
By text, I would say "you can cast any spell...without needing the component" only allows you to cast the spell, not to gain any bonus from a component that you choose not to use.
By intent, I'm not really sure what they were intending with False Focus, if not to remove 100gp or less material component costs from spells.
As for the metamagic feat, the part I'm confused on is if the additional material components are consider to be material components with regard to spell component pouches, eschew materials, false focus and so forth.
I think your quote is reaching, as they give an example in the very next line to clarify that. "For example, if you use a silver holy symbol worth 25 gp, you do not have to provide material components for an arcane spell if its components are worth 25 gp or less."
This isn't the only instance of Pathfinder rules adding material components to spells. Adventurer's Armory has rules for "Alchemical Power Components" which also refer to using certain alchemical items as material components in spell casting.
"you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component."
"You can use 1 dose of contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury poison as an additional material component"
I don't see why it wouldn't work. The feat covers 100gp of components and the feat makes no mention of any type of material components that are excluded. I've never run into an issue using the feat with Alchemical Reagents/alchemical power components so I don't see why this application would be different.
As to casting, I don't see how using an 'additional material component' is any different that any other option that must be decided on when casting like range, version, target, ect... it's all part of the casting. metamagic IS part of the casting of the spell and casting a toxic spell requires the new material component or it can't be cast.
Additional Material Components are an OPTIONAL enhancement to the spell being cast. Dependent on the specific spell, and the additional effect desired by the caster; additional components are treated as Material components and thus consumed in the casting, others are Focus components and not consumed.
Outside of PFS rules as GM I would interpret the meaning as follows:
The spell consumes the poison in the casting. As such you would need to provide the poison, and the False Focus feat would not apply.
If the poison were used as a Focus then I would say that yes the False Focus feat would apply.
Within the PFS specific rules as GM I would rule the same way. But you should expect significant table variation, and speak with your GM before each session.
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Additional Material Components are an OPTIONAL enhancement to the spell being cast. Dependent on the specific spell, and the additional effect desired by the caster; additional components are treated as Material components and thus consumed in the casting, others are Focus components and not consumed.
Outside of PFS rules as GM I would interpret the meaning as follows:
The spell consumes the poison in the casting. As such you would need to provide the poison, and the False Focus feat would not apply.
If the poison were used as a Focus then I would say that yes the False Focus feat would apply.Within the PFS specific rules as GM I would rule the same way. But you should expect significant table variation, and speak with your GM before each session.
So you agree, they qualify as material components, you just disagree that in this instance they apply because the use of additional material components isn't "needed" for the spell?
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Additional material component =/= material component in my opinion.
False focus and eschew materials remove the need for the material components (up to a specific GP value). They don't remove the need to use additional components for additional benefits. If the additional component isn't present you don't get the benefit.
Additional material component =/= material component in my opinion.
False focus and eschew materials remove the need for the material components (up to a specific GP value). They don't remove the need to use additional components for additional benefits. If the additional component isn't present you don't get the benefit.
^^this^^