Good morning all, so I am looking for a little clarification I guess on running my first adventure path. I have mainly 2 questions:
1. Is there a standardized creation system that is suggested for adventure paths?
2. Adventure paths are assumed that you will have 4 players correct?
Any help with these matters would be greatly appreciated.
Good morning!
1. Yep, the assumed standard is 15 point buy, though i know that a lot of folks use 20 points (including me).
2. Yep!
Thanks you!
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Good morning!
1. Yep, the assumed standard is 15 point buy, though i know that a lot of folks use 20 points (including me).
2. Yep!
Yep all this
As for me personally.
I personally like Groups of 4 as groups of 6 get too wild and people tend to not make it and it throws off story and such when they are not there.
I personally like a 20 Point buy with Automatic Bonus Progression and Limited race choices to Common and Featured races (- Drow, + Kitsune and Grippli) with no Variant blood choices on Aasimar and Teiflings. But that is just my preference.
I also Ban all gun using classes/archetypes and Occult classes as I do not like it in my classical magical fantasy worlds. But that is totally both a mechanical and flavor choice as DM to ban.
Good morning!
1. Yep, the assumed standard is 15 point buy, though i know that a lot of folks use 20 points (including me).
2. Yep!
Yep all this
As for me personally.
I personally like Groups of 4 as groups of 6 get too wild and people tend to not make it and it throws off story and such when they are not there.
I personally like a 20 Point buy with Automatic Bonus Progression and Limited race choices to Common and Featured races (- Drow, + Kitsune and Grippli) with no Variant blood choices on Aasimar and Teiflings. But that is just my preference.
I also Ban all gun using classes/archetypes and Occult classes as I do not like it in my classical magical fantasy worlds. But that is totally both a mechanical and flavor choice as DM to ban.
As of right now, I am not to sure if I will have 3 or 5 players, so I will cross that bridge when I get there. I do prefer 4 myself, it keeps things clean and running pretty smoothly. Though if I end up running with the 3 players, I will most likely do a 25 point buy.
I am also mildly traditional, I don't allow Gunslingers, Ninja, or Samurai in any of my games. I don't want any firearms in my fantasy, but hey to each their own in this aspect. The group I will be playing with is used to operating out of all core material so I don't have to worry to much about race choices I don't think.
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As of right now, I am not to sure if I will have 3 or 5 players, so I will cross that bridge when I get there. I do prefer 4 myself, it keeps things clean and running pretty smoothly. Though if I end up running with the 3 players, I will most likely do a 25 point buy.I am also mildly traditional, I don't allow Gunslingers, Ninja, or Samurai in any of my games. I don't want any firearms in my fantasy, but hey to each their own in this aspect. The group I will be playing with is used to operating out of all core material so I don't have to worry to much about race choices I don't think.
Take a Look at Hero Point System for 3 players. The issue with less players is more the Action economy is not the same as 4 players. The ability to burn a hero point for 1 more attack or Spell will help with that loss of 1 PC action economy when it really matters.
Of course that is just 1 solution of many as opposed to giving them a higher Point buy. Some others include cutting back on amount of enemies or Giving them a free feat or two (there is a thing the community calls Feat Taxes and some people give those taxes for free.)
Also, APs are written for the "average" group of players, so if your players have high system mastery or are big optimizers you will have to adjust most encounters or the AP will be too easy.
I would suggest 15 point buy. Some complain it is too low, but it will be easier to give out extra goodies to your PCs if they are struggling as opposed to asking your PCs to scale back half way through an AP because it's too easy.
If you do allow 20PB, I would suggest telling your players no stats below 10 pre-racial modifiers and none above 18 post-racial modifiers. This allows for more MAD classes or interesting builds, but it helps to mitigate ultra-optimized SADs.
I've been running Rise of the Runelords for two years. I gave players a 25-point buy, min 10 and max 17 pre-racial. It does increase player power a bit, but for most of the AP I kept them about a level behind the expected level, and still had to beef up most encounters to keep things interesting.
Whatever you decide, it'll work fine. Go with what works best for you.
Another thing that's helped us when undermanned (2-3 players) is that our GM gives each PC an extra 2 skill points per level. That can provide coverage for Knowledge checks and other useful skills that 2 or 3 players might not have the full bandwidth to invest in.
Also, when I run APs, I ditch the XP system for leveling. Instead, I just tell the party that they've leveled when they reach the suggested point in that particular chapter. This helps avoid a situation where if the party doesn't grind every last boar, they will be underpowered. If they figure out the chapter's villain and defeat them early, I don't find it fun for them to feel like they have to go back and poke every kobold-hole and demon-den in the book before they can move on in the narrative.
Thanks everyone for all the positive feedback. Its Wrath of the Righteous, so it leads right into mythic levels. You guys have definitely presented me with some great advice and viable options for getting this done and making sure that while still challenging for my players, not to difficult.
Quibble: I actually thought about doing that, they actually suggest it in the adventure as well. I tend to have a person that isn't always reliable to make every session, that makes it a little difficult.
Wheldrake: Those rules sound more than generous to me, so I think I will run with that. Still gives them plenty of lead way and being creative and having solidly built PC's.
Fruian: I will look into the Hero Point system, I looked over it a while back but it's not fresh in my memory, so a re-read wouldn't hurt.
Again thanks everyone for your input.
Whoa there I advise AGAINST WotR as your first AP.
Mythic is utterly broken as a system.
I have actually been running a mythic homebrew campaign for some time now. I don't particularly have an issue with it. I'm not new to the mythic setting, just the whole AP concept.
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Here is how my WotR campaign ended.
I played a Wizard Archmage with Mythic Time Stop, Mythic Improved initiative, and Mythic Crafting....Fight Begins...time stop...I win...every fight. Why? Cause this:
Select a number of creatures equal to half your tier or fewer within close range (25 feet + 5 feet per 2 caster levels).
Mythic time stop has the same effect on these creatures as it does on you, allowing them to act for the same number of rounds of apparent time that you can. You and these creatures can all interact with one another normally while time appears to be stopped.
Augmented (10th): If you expend three uses of mythic power, the duration increases to 1 hour per level of apparent time. You and other affected creatures gain no benefit from rest or sleep while the spell is active.
WotR is a 20th Level/10 mythic tier Game. by the time players reach Level 13/MT 4 the AP is already in the hands of the PCs. It was the most 1 sided AP I've ever played.
Whoa there I advise AGAINST WotR as your first AP.
Mythic is utterly broken as a system.
I didn't find Mythic to be broken but WotR seemed to written for non mythic characters while the AP gave you mythic powers. That just meant any non mythic foe died in 1 round or 2. I've run my house game with mythic that had none of the problems WotR had.
For WotR I'd definitely go 15 pt buy maybe even 10 pt buy as the AP and Mythic boosts stats more than enough. I ran it with 20 pt buy, my players just wouldn't do less and they complained about 20 pt. by 13 level they were realizing they could have done 10 pt buy and been tough.
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In nearly every AP I've seen, GMed, or played, you need to add some "mooks" to encounters when there's a single opponent - something that makes sense to be part of the AP, eats away at player action economy, but doesn't significantly alter survivability.
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HERE is a Google document that "upgrades" most of the Mythic foes to be more of a challenge to the group.
I am running this as a PbP, and have five characters, 20 point buy and they are doing fine. Sometimes they get their collective keisters handed to them, sometimes the stomp over everything. Works out in the end.
-- david
I am also running WotR (just about to finish up book 5). Some Advice:
1) 100% use 15pb. The stat boosts from items and mythic will more than make up for it.
2) Reduce the number of mythic points to 2+ One per tier instead of 3+double. This may sound like a big gimp, but this doesn't remove the abilities they have, while making them think about using multiple MP every round.
3) Some feats are super overpowering. Ban Clustered Shots, it's just too strong with mythic. For Mythic Combat Reflexes, change it to "you get an additional number of AoO equal to your tier" staking with normal Combat Reflexes. I have a Come and Get Me Barbarian that I just can't attack. Because she will kill an opponent on their turn.
4) I kept my party about 1 level and Tier behind the AP says they should be. This will help alleviate the issues with mythic.
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I am also running WotR (just about to finish up book 5). Some Advice:
1) 100% use 15pb. The stat boosts from items and mythic will more than make up for it.
3) Some feats are super overpowering. Ban Clustered Shots, it's just too strong with mythic. For Mythic Combat Reflexes, change it to "you get an additional number of AoO equal to your tier" staking with normal Combat Reflexes. I have a Come and Get Me Barbarian that I just can't attack. Because she will kill an opponent on their turn.
Yes for #1
# 3) I find Mythic Vital Strike to be Utterly Broken. I highly Recommend Banning it up front. I played with a Mythic Vital Strike Scythe 2 handed Fighter (Archetype) that just chopped things in Half. Straight Disgusting once he made his Scythe Legendary Item and Pimped it out. Foe Biting is too stronk. Watching him swing 1 time and down bosses was just head shaking. No boss lived through a single round. 90% of the encounter from book 2+ was over in the first round. Only place my group felt it could possibly fail was the Mass army combat.
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Isn't that just a slightly better version of pounce for 2-5 feats depending on level? That's pretty underwhelming tbh.
# 3) I find Mythic Vital Strike to be Utterly Broken.
Except you make a single attack and ALL of them hit. Using Furious Focus you take no penalties for Power attack....mixed with Overhand Chop, Greater (and Mythic) Power Attack, Weapon Specializations, Weapon Training, Magic Enhancements (Legendary weapon), Foe Biting, Mythic Path abilities, a Str of 40ish..... You can really explode the damage.
Funny thing is he was the Tame one out of the 2 Hammers in the group....the Archer Paladin with Mythic Smite and Legendary weapon was so much higher on the damage charts since he could starts from what seemed like half a mile away.
I am also running WotR (just about to finish up book 5). Some Advice:
1) 100% use 15pb. The stat boosts from items and mythic will more than make up for it.
3) Some feats are super overpowering. Ban Clustered Shots, it's just too strong with mythic. For Mythic Combat Reflexes, change it to "you get an additional number of AoO equal to your tier" staking with normal Combat Reflexes. I have a Come and Get Me Barbarian that I just can't attack. Because she will kill an opponent on their turn.
Yes for #1
# 3) I find Mythic Vital Strike to be Utterly Broken. I highly Recommend Banning it up front. I played with a Mythic Vital Strike Scythe 2 handed Fighter (Archetype) that just chopped things in Half. Straight Disgusting once he made his Scythe Legendary Item and Pimped it out. Foe Biting is too stronk. Watching him swing 1 time and down bosses was just head shaking. No boss lived through a single round. 90% of the encounter from book 2+ was over in the first round. Only place my group felt it could possibly fail was the Mass army combat.
I found mythic power attack to be reasonable then realized we played it wrong the entire game. I thought it was spend 1 mythic power for 1 round not 1 minute. It still slaughtered anything non mythic but it burned through mythic power points faster.
One other piece of advice - skip experience points and just tell the players to level up their characters when the AP says they should level. Saves bookkeeping and any need to go on sidequests to level up.
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I ban nothing except disruptive players. I want my players to build the character that excites them. Anything goes. Mythic. Occult. Hero points. Scaling weapons. Companions. Alchemists. Gunslingers. Psionics. Path of War. Critical tables. That's why my campaign rocks.
Isn't that just a slightly better version of pounce for 2-5 feats depending on level? That's pretty underwhelming tbh.
No it's not - it's better than pounce, because you only have to hit on your best attack bonus - and if your hit is a crit, then you autocrit the entire attack chain.
Pounce requires a to hit roll for each attack, and one crit doesn't make your entire attack chain a crit. Pounce also requires a full round action where mythic vital strike does not - meaning your move action can be a 'non move' - so it's more versatile. It only really comes into it's own when added with mythic power attack though. Even 'pounce-light' like pummeling strike require you to use your attack chain to add up damage - mythic vital strike is not 'just slightly better pounce'
Hey guys, sorry I have been away from this thread for so long, just got a little busy with real world stuff. I'm not a stranger to DMing, this is just my first AP, and I want to make it challenging enough for them but at the same time, not to challenging to where they don't enjoy it. There have been quite a few great idea's posted here that I will look into and most likely use. As far as the specifics, I am not opposed to rule zeroing anything in a chronicle that I run as long as doing so maintains the fun factor for everyone.
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Any game using a point buy for character creation needs to ban the synthesist summoner. I'll never know why they didn't just use polymorph rules for that archetype.