The Line between Disruptive and RP

[Askdal Aleheart]

Before I give being a DM for PFS a try I'm curious about other people's opinion on this matter.

I'm the kind of person that if I were to run a scenario that involved Kreighton Shaine I would absolutely need to have a plastic rose before I would feel comfortable running the game.

However with all the 'Speed-Run', let's go, we can get This Evergreen done in less than three hours... I'm curious on this topic.

I'll throw in two examples to start things off.

The Bard who sings: You have a player with a Bard character and every round he is using Inspire Courage he sings two sentences from an altered IRL song.
"Smelly Scale-Man, lurking in the tower. Smelly-Scale-man the kind I'd like not to meet".
Might get a grin out of a few people but you know some others might not like this.

The Tobacco User: The player who brings a cigar to the game. It it is not bubblegum or chocolate and it is out of the cellophane wrapper. It is not lit and never has been. He chomps on it during the game because his character smokes cigars and will show you his sheet where he purchased the 5 silver one pound of tobacco trade good to justify it. This situation sounds simple enough but you know that you will get that one player. The one who sits next to someone with a pack of cigarettes obvious in their shirt pocket and not bothering them but the fact this player has a cigar in his mouth is the 'worst distraction' in the world.

These two examples from my experience from DnD 3.0/3.5 might sound silly but I'm still curious about other people's views.

Please feel free to add your own experiences and examples.

[Legio_MCMLXXXVII]

If you can't sing, don't sing.

Actually, even if you can sing, probably don't anyway.

I don't care about cigars, but people who sing at the table are a damn nuisance, and should be firmly muzzled. Especially since most of the one's I've met sing terribly.

[Blackbot]

Rule of thumb:
If someone is bothered, stop doing it.

If everybody seems to enjoy it, keep doing it.

I can see plenty of things being fun and memorable but quickly devolve into annoying when used too much. The singing is an example - if the mood is good it can enhance it, if everybody is annoyed at a fight taking long there will probably someone who will fight his urge to strangle the singing bard.

[TwilightKnight]

There's also something to be said for letting people have fun the way they want to. Just because YOU don't role-play doesn't mean you can/should impose your style of play on them. If the barbarian wants to yell "Leeeroy Jenkins" every time he charges is not hurting you in the least. Let them have their fun. If their role-playing is getting too lengthy or inappropriate the GM should take action, but I don't see either of the two examples being that level of distraction.

[Ascalaphus]

These examples don't sound bad to me. Well, depending on how well the bard can sing. If it's awful terrible, don't. If it's funny terrible, go ahead.

[thejeff]

Bob Jonquet wrote:

There's also something to be said for letting people have fun the way they want to. Just because YOU don't role-play doesn't mean you can/should impose your style of play on them. If the barbarian wants to yell "Leeeroy Jenkins" every time he charges is not hurting you in the least. Let them have their fun. If their role-playing is getting too lengthy or inappropriate the GM should take action, but I don't see either of the two examples being that level of distraction.

Personally, I wouldn't call either "Leeeroy Jenkins" or the singing example "roleplay". They're meta references to real world jokes, not something the character would actually be doing. (Or only by some horribly contrived setup)

Whether I'd care or not would depend on the frequency and how much it clashed with the mood of the table and scenario. Much like any out-of-character table chatter.

The cigar on the other hand is just a cigar. It's a prop. Wouldn't bother me.

[DrakeRoberts]

Askdal Aleheart wrote:

"Smelly Scale-Man, lurking in the tower. Smelly-Scale-man the kind I'd like not to meet".

I think I'd be more distracted by the fact that the lines don't rhyme than by the singing. Then again, I'm a firm believer in using Goblin Songs whenever goblins are around, too. And all goblin songs must be sung to the Oompa-Loompa tune.

[BartonOliver]

It depends. Frankly, I find people eating at the table more distracting then either of those examples. (I'm have fairly sensitive hearing, and it happens to be a sound to which I'm hyper-sensitive). That said I deal with it, some people are easier to be around than others but, it's not hurting me and it definitely makes sense with the play times we usually have. (I generally try and show up early and eat before game, but I understand it's my problem not theirs).

Truly disruptive play for me. Usually involves the guy that has to deliver every line at full voice as if he were an actor from some B-horror movie. Or the guy that has to do all the talking to the point of shutting down other players. Or the guy who is so excited for what he has to say/do that he starts every sentence while the GM is still talking. (I find props that take table space, often an annoyance, up to and including dice towers as we generally don't have a ton of room, but not particularly distracting)

[nosig]

The is just thread discussing what I call table ETIQUETTE.... right? Or is there some activity that we are trying to ban?

We're all friends here at the table right? So, if your friend is doing something that bothers you - ask them nice to stop it.

If someone at a table asked me to stop doing something because it was "being disruptive to play" or that it "bothered him" I'd try to stop doing it. I often do or have done things that might bug someone, without me even noticing it. If I was rattling dice on the table top (something that I ask other players to PLEASE not do when I am talking) and someone asked me to stop - I would.

Some things I've been asked to stop doing or change at a table-

If my "silly voice" bothered someone (something I was asked to stop doing more than once), I'd switch it.
If my Take 10 T-shirt upset anyone at the table - I'd switch it. (I bring an extra shirt just for this).
If I'm jiggling my leg (nervous habit) - I'd quit.
If I'm crunching ice (my bad habit) - I'd put it back in the cup and TRY to stop.
If my PC is "hitting" on someone's PC and it's "creeping me out guy" - I'd stop right away.
If my cross-gendered PC is bothering someone - I'll switch the gender for one game (maybe she's in "disguise" for the adventure).

Heck - this is about ETIQUETTE - about "playing nice" together.

If anyone at the table asks me to stop some easily controlled thing - like singing, I DON'T CARE WHY IT BOTHERS THEM - I'd stop as soon as I could. Maybe she feels it's to much like cheating. Perhaps there is trauma there, I don't know, and frankly I don't care. WHATEVER the reason. I wanna be her FRIEND. I want her to have fun too. If it helps her have fun, and doesn't hurt my fun, why not stop doing it if she asks nice (or heck, even more it she asks upset)? This does require her to ASK... even non-verbally. If someone at the table flinches everytime I use my "Halfling Voice", maybe I should not do it?

table ETIQUETTE.

Play nice. Let's be friends. Have fun.... it's what the game is really about.

edit: heck - we often hear what habits other people have that bother the poster. How about if we chime in on this thread with things we do that sometimes bothers other players? (like my list above of "Some things I've been asked to stop doing or change at a table"). What are you working on changing in yourself - for Table Etiquette sake?

[BigNorseWolf]

Other people aren't exactly like me? Whats the world coming to.

I don't know if there's a line so much as a subjective and blurry gradation from from enjoyable role play, to meh, to it bothers me, to it bothers me enough that i should try to get someone else to stop having fun, but nothing you're describing remotely bears that last one. If the smell of an unlit cigar drives you nuts, your snooter is way too sensative to be around gamers anyway.

[rknop]

Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

I don't care about cigars, but people who sing at the table are a damn nuisance, and should be firmly muzzled.

:P

Avoid any table I'm at, as GM or player.

[Woran]

rknop wrote:

Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

I don't care about cigars, but people who sing at the table are a damn nuisance, and should be firmly muzzled.

:P

Avoid any table I'm at, as GM or player.

Haha, we spend our entire run of Our Lady of Silver singing Alladin songs :P

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Disruptive things I've seen in others:

If someone revels in a bodily aroma (not necessarily gamer-funk) and attempts to waft it to the rest of the table -- that's disgusting and disruptive.

If someone has some sort of stuff on their hands that leaves horrific stains (Cheetos, busted ink pen, whatever), please do NOT ask to see my character sheet, my tablet, pretty much anything of mine. If it turns out that I need CPR and you're the only one that can provide it, please wipe your hands off on your clothes before trying to save my life.

If someone is 'smoking', there was this thing called 'candy cigars/cigarettes' that they used to make. Use one of those, please. There's no guarantee that an unlit cigarette/cigar/pipe/vaping tube won't make me violently ill just from proximity.

If someone has healing power and has been given a resource to use to *heal the party* don't charge into melee when someone is at 'death's door' and there's other party members to provide cover. Sure, it might be all dramatic and neat, but do YOU want to help pay those res costs?

If someone is role-playing for an extended period and the horse seems totally dead, please let it go when it becomes obvious.

If someone is arguing the rules AFTER the GM has given them the benefit of the doubt, please stop arguing the point for twenty minutes to an hour after that decision. Not only does it disrupt play, but it detracts from the fun of being at a table.

Disruptive things I've seen in myself and continue to work on:

If I miss a rule or don't quite understand a mechanic, please tell me. I'm not perfect, I'm still learning, and sometimes politely correcting me might help us both learn.

If I've been role-playing for twenty minutes straight and hogging the action, say something! Don't give me disgusted looks, either tell me to back off a bit or offer your own role-play. I can get 'talky' sometimes (not rules discussions, though, I try to steer clear of those in play)

If I'm suffering from a stress headache or a migraine, I'll try not to be obnoxious about it or lash out at folks, but it's still hard to do with no pain-killers (and please don't suggest them, I've been clean of them for nearly four years).

If I get up to go to the bathroom, it's not because I'm being disrespectful but because I *really have to go* and we don't want to deal with the ramifications of me *not* getting up. I'll try to excuse myself or at least let someone else near me at the table know if they're not in the middle of something.

If the food I'm eating or the drink I'm consuming is making you nauseous, please let me know. If I don't know, I can't fix that.

If I wince and cover my eyes at someone singing, it's not because I'm trying to be rude (regardless of quality) -- it just feels 'off' an 'forced' in most circumstances and my inner Muse starts rebelling.

[Kitty Catoblepas]

This thread has made me think about a character concept I have.

I'd actually been wanting to make a Halfling polygamist for use in cons and online (and anywhere with a varying player base, honestly), but I had been afraid that it would go over poorly.

His shtick would be that he gives off the vibe of someone why tries to live the 1960s Free-Love lifestyle in the 1970s and that he tries to marry every member of the party ("Hey, man, it's cool if it's not your thing").

The fun in it would be:

1. Seeing how many wives and husbands he could have
2. Meeting a spouse of his spouse in a different game
3. Actually finding a PFS use for the Kin Guardian trait.

[quibblemuch]

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

I'd actually been wanting to make a Halfling polygamist for use in cons and online (and anywhere with a varying player base, honestly), but I had been afraid that it would go over poorly.

I just felt a great disturbance... as if a million people made a "hey baby, wanna have a two-and-a-half-way?" joke, and then... silence...

[Terminalmancer]

I hope you're not looking for a way out of the goblin songs... there are at least three more goblin adventures you haven't played. There will be music!

[RealAlchemy]

quibblemuch wrote:

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

I'd actually been wanting to make a Halfling polygamist for use in cons and online (and anywhere with a varying player base, honestly), but I had been afraid that it would go over poorly.

I just felt a great disturbance... as if a million people made a "hey baby, wanna have a two-and-a-half-way?" joke, and then... silence...

My lady half orc redeemer paladin of Arshea must end up at the same table as this halfling, even if it means me blowing a GM star for it!

[TwilightKnight]

I think the multitude of women gamers tired of being hit on during the game under the auspices of role-play may find your character concept disruptive and quite offensive.

[G-Zeus]

For myself, GMing or playing, the biggest annoyance comes from people not getting to the point. In rp its when the player tends to ramble because they feel the need to talk or they will miss their turn. They tend to have 15+ word sentences that dont really go anywhere. They are trying to do it in character but sometimes the mouth is faster than the brain and at these times they should just roll and summarized their intention. In combat this happens either when GMs make every hit a spectacle, even after an hour of the same combat, or when players over analyze their options. Once again the GM should recognize pace and determine when roles should adjust accordingly.

[Lyric the Singing Paladin]

Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

I don't care about cigars, but people who sing at the table are a damn nuisance, and should be firmly muzzled.

Lyric looks at the muzzle that she's been issued with a clear look of puzzlement. Then her expression clears. "Zarta starts the weirdest fashions, doesn't she!"

Oh, am I ever guilty of singing at the table...

[BigNorseWolf]

G-Zeus wrote:

Once again the GM should recognize pace and determine when roles should adjust accordingly.

Which could be seen by others as stepping on their toes. *shrug*

[outshyn]

I will use different voices for various characters, and I've had players flat-out laugh in my face for it. Generally, the laugh is not so much mean-spirited as it is, "Oh this is weird and I'm uncomfortable."

That has kept my "speaking in character" to a minimum, though I still do it a little and I'm happy when someone can reciprocate in a spontaneous and swift way. I don't like it to take up a lot of time, but quick bits back & forth are fun.

I've played with a guy who is very eloquent in describing his actions. For example, if he casts Web, he says, "My wizard reaches into his belt pouch, and pulls out a dead spider. As he begins an incantation, he crushes the insect in his hand, and then blows the bits of carapace into the air. They turn into a mass of sticky strands, adhering to the walls, and trapping everyone."

The first time I saw this guy play, I was impressed. He could say something about any action he took, making the whole game appear more like a movie in our minds. That is... until about the 3rd or 4th fight. By the time I had gone through 20+ rounds of this guy speaking at length on EVERY TURN, it got old. I went from "this spices things up" to "this slows down the game!"

By the end, I just wanted him to get on with his turn. Saying, "I cast Web" is such a great short-hand. We all know what it means, what the implications are, and how to resolve it. And I was longing for that by the time the game was over.

[Muser]

I'm wont to save the big descriptions for those game changer moments. The big crits, the single spell victories and for those times somebody clears a skill gauntlet all by themself.

Most of the players have their phones or tablets out and are concentrating on something else anyway. Why bother?

[TwilightKnight]

For my craziest character, a goblin magus who thinks he's the reincarnation of Durvin Gest, I start out in character and set the stage for who and what he is and his antics. Then I try to watch reactions and decide if the other players are enjoying it or it's getting to be too much. It's usually not too hard figure out. Then I adjust from there. Once they can imagine what he sounds and acts like based on my depiction I don't HAVE to keep doing it, but since I enjoy it so, I will unless it's not being enthusiastically received. More often than not it continues through most of the scenario. I've receive a lot of requests to play with him.

[Kitty Catoblepas]

Bob Jonquet wrote:

I think the multitude of women gamers tired of being hit on during the game under the auspices of role-play may find your character concept disruptive and quite offensive.

As well as the multitude of male gamers uncomfortable with that kind of thing. That's honestly why the concept is just a concept and not a character.

The actual plan was to bring it up casually out of no where, having conversations something along the line of:

"Good to meet you. Your name is Am'Aranth? That's a pretty name. Do you want to get married? No? That's cool if it's not your thing. I won't press it. Love should be freely given."

[thejeff]

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

Bob Jonquet wrote:

I think the multitude of women gamers tired of being hit on during the game under the auspices of role-play may find your character concept disruptive and quite offensive.

As well as the multitude of male gamers uncomfortable with that kind of thing. That's honestly why the concept is just a concept and not a character.

The actual plan was to bring it up casually out of no where, having conversations something along the line of:

"Good to meet you. Your name is Am'Aranth? That's a pretty name. Do you want to get married? No? That's cool if it's not your thing. I won't press it. Love should be freely given."

Honestly it would mostly bother me because you're treating it so casually. Most of the poly folk I know take it pretty seriously - at least when it comes to something like marriage. Some more casual with sex, but most would take marrying near strangers on the spur of the moment and without consent of the existing spouses pretty badly.

[BigNorseWolf]

Everyone is doing it wrong

Except you.

For various values of you

[Kitty Catoblepas]

thejeff wrote:

Honestly it would mostly bother me because you're treating it so casually. Most of the poly folk I know take it pretty seriously - at least when it comes to something like marriage. Some more casual with sex, but most would take marrying near strangers on the spur of the moment and without consent of the existing spouses pretty badly.

I wanted to have him act really casual about the process of getting married, but (to show a stark contrast) be really serious about the commitment (being supportive in-combat, being helpful out-of-combat, being generous with charged items, not believing in the practice of divorce). I also wanted him to remember all of the names of his spouses and be happy to see them if they happened to cross paths again (ask about adventures, see if they got married and if his family has grown as a consequence). I also liked the flavor of a knowledge check starting with, "I remember my third wife, Walira saying something about this once..."

...And intentionally leave any mention of consummation out of the conversation.

But yeah, offensive. Disruptive. Which is why he will not get a -#

[quibblemuch]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Everyone is doing it wrong

Except you.

For various values of you

"I'm not!"

"Shhhhhh!"

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

If the first thought of a character concept is a joyful grin on how many people it's going to honk off, then you're probably going to wind up over the line.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

If the first thought of a character concept is a joyful grin on how many people it's going to honk off, then you're probably going to wind up over the line.

...in addition, if the second thought is how many *books* you're going to need for the character (even via .pdf) is making your brain hurt... you're probably going over the line, too.

Truth in text: The second part has happened to me a couple of times...

["Lucious" Lucius Vizinni]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

If the first thought of a character concept is a joyful grin on how many people it's going to honk off, then you're probably going to wind up over the line.

What if it is your second? (J/k)

[Hmm]

I love playing next to Lucious Lucius. He gets into being over the top even more than I do, and that's saying something.

I knew when Jack came in wearing that stylish purple hat that we were in for something good with that character!

Hmm

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Alas, I will probably never get to sit at a table with him in play...

[Hmm]

Come to SkålCon. We have cookies, Jack in his purple hat, and all the wonders of the Minnesota Lodge!

Hmm

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Still trying to figure out transportation, logistics, feasibility.

Hitting PaizoCon, a writing retreat two weeks later, and GenCon is pushing the limits Gods I hate getting old and responsible.

[Finlanderboy]

nosig wrote:

The is just thread discussing what I call table ETIQUETTE.... right? Or is there some activity that we are trying to ban?

We're all friends here at the table right? So, if your friend is doing something that bothers you - ask them nice to stop it.

If someone at a table asked me to stop doing something because it was "being disruptive to play" or that it "bothered him" I'd try to stop doing it. I often do or have done things that might bug someone, without me even noticing it. If I was rattling dice on the table top (something that I ask other players to PLEASE not do when I am talking) and someone asked me to stop - I would.

Some things I've been asked to stop doing or change at a table-

If my "silly voice" bothered someone (something I was asked to stop doing more than once), I'd switch it.
If my Take 10 T-shirt upset anyone at the table - I'd switch it. (I bring an extra shirt just for this).
If I'm jiggling my leg (nervous habit) - I'd quit.
If I'm crunching ice (my bad habit) - I'd put it back in the cup and TRY to stop.
If my PC is "hitting" on someone's PC and it's "creeping me out guy" - I'd stop right away.
If my cross-gendered PC is bothering someone - I'll switch the gender for one game (maybe she's in "disguise" for the adventure).

Heck - this is about ETIQUETTE - about "playing nice" together.

What about when i play at your table to play with you. And you have to stop being you even though I enjoy it because someone else does not?

Nosig, if i ever get to play with you. I want to play the game with you. not a retrained you. If someone is bothered by you and wrecks my enjoyment of it because they do not like they take the enjoyment from the other at the table that enjoy you.

Etiquette is not appeasing the one person that complains. There are around 5 other people at the table they are taking from.

[rknop]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Gods I hate getting old and responsible.

Worst thing ever.

On the other hand, it does mean that you can go to gaming conventions without begging your parents for permission. I have to admit I appreciate that.

[Askdal Aleheart]

So far it looks like random fate on where you live/play.

This looks both good and bad to me as there is no control over random fate.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Finlanderboy wrote:

What about when i play at your table to play with you. And you have to stop being you even though I enjoy it because someone else does not?

Nosig, if i ever get to play with you. I want to play the game with you. not a retrained you. If someone is bothered by you and wrecks my enjoyment of it because they do not like they take the enjoyment from the other at the table that enjoy you.

Etiquette is not appeasing the one person that complains. There are around 5 other people at the table they are taking from.

If I sit down at a table and everyone is laughing and joking about *insert truly odious situation here* at a game store or convention, I shouldn't feel threatened when I ask folks to either A. Tone it down or B. Knock it off entirely.

If that equates 'retraining' someone, or being 'the one person that complains', then there are greater social problems with PFS that need addressing, whether in the immediate area, region, or organizational outlook as a whole.

Courtesy, Dignity, Respect.

["Lucious" Lucius Vizinni]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Alas, I will probably never get to sit at a table with him in play...

What is your gen con schedule like?

I have Friday and Saturday afternoon off. Maybe we find something we can play together in that timeframe? The new 5-9 perhaps?

[Silbeg]

rknop wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Gods I hate getting old and responsible.

Worst thing ever.

On the other hand, it does mean that you can go to gaming conventions without begging your parents for permission. I have to admit I appreciate that.

No, the begging target changes to your non-gamer wife. Which is far more difficult.

[UndeadMitch]

Finlanderboy wrote:

nosig wrote:

The is just thread discussing what I call table ETIQUETTE.... right? Or is there some activity that we are trying to ban?

We're all friends here at the table right? So, if your friend is doing something that bothers you - ask them nice to stop it.

If someone at a table asked me to stop doing something because it was "being disruptive to play" or that it "bothered him" I'd try to stop doing it. I often do or have done things that might bug someone, without me even noticing it. If I was rattling dice on the table top (something that I ask other players to PLEASE not do when I am talking) and someone asked me to stop - I would.

Some things I've been asked to stop doing or change at a table-

If my "silly voice" bothered someone (something I was asked to stop doing more than once), I'd switch it.
If my Take 10 T-shirt upset anyone at the table - I'd switch it. (I bring an extra shirt just for this).
If I'm jiggling my leg (nervous habit) - I'd quit.
If I'm crunching ice (my bad habit) - I'd put it back in the cup and TRY to stop.
If my PC is "hitting" on someone's PC and it's "creeping me out guy" - I'd stop right away.
If my cross-gendered PC is bothering someone - I'll switch the gender for one game (maybe she's in "disguise" for the adventure).

Heck - this is about ETIQUETTE - about "playing nice" together.

What about when i play at your table to play with you. And you have to stop being you even though I enjoy it because someone else does not?

Nosig, if i ever get to play with you. I want to play the game with you. not a retrained you. If someone is bothered by you and wrecks my enjoyment of it because they do not like they take the enjoyment from the other at the table that enjoy you.

Etiquette is not appeasing the one person that complains. There are around 5 other people at the table they are taking from.

This is 1000% wrong. Pathfinder Society is for everyone. If someone feels uncomfortable or unsafe because of the behavior of another person at the table they absolutely have the right to speak up and make themselves heard.

Edit: FWIW, there is only one thing (maybe one or two others depending on the situation) on nosig's list that I would come down on someone for doing if they refused to stop if another person at the table was made to feel unsafe/unwelcome by that behavior.

[thejeff]

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

This is 1000% wrong. Pathfinder Society is for everyone. If someone feels uncomfortable or unsafe because of the behavior of another person at the table they absolutely have the right to speak up and make themselves heard.

On the other hand, compromise and accommodation. It should be for everyone. That also means the complainer can't make everyone else conform to their comfort zone. That just means the loudest and most likely to object get their way.

[UndeadMitch]

thejeff wrote:

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

This is 1000% wrong. Pathfinder Society is for everyone. If someone feels uncomfortable or unsafe because of the behavior of another person at the table they absolutely have the right to speak up and make themselves heard.

On the other hand, compromise and accommodation. It should be for everyone. That also means the complainer can't make everyone else conform to their comfort zone. That just means the loudest and most likely to object get their way.

Here's what's up. If someone comes to me saying that player X's action are making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, player X gets one chance to knock it off. If they keep it up they get a one-way ticket out the door. Every person that shows up to a public PFS game has the right to feel safe and welcome. That is not even up for discussion. Of course proper judgment needs to be exercised here, and not every situation is going to be the same.

[thejeff]

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

This is 1000% wrong. Pathfinder Society is for everyone. If someone feels uncomfortable or unsafe because of the behavior of another person at the table they absolutely have the right to speak up and make themselves heard.

On the other hand, compromise and accommodation. It should be for everyone. That also means the complainer can't make everyone else conform to their comfort zone. That just means the loudest and most likely to object get their way.

Here's what's up. If someone comes to me saying that player X's action are making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, player X gets one chance to knock it off. If they keep it up they get a one-way ticket out the door. Every person that shows up to a public PFS game has the right to feel safe and welcome. That is not even up for discussion. Of course proper judgment needs to be exercised here, and not every situation is going to be the same.

Just to be clear, to use one of the previous examples: If someone came to you saying that nosig's crossgendered PC was making them uncomfortable, you'd give nosig one chance to knock it off? Change the PC.

Now, nosig's volunteered to do this, which is nice, but it seems above and beyond the call to me. Especially when, as Finlanderboy suggested, others at the table may be enjoying the concept.

Or does that fall into "proper judgment needs to be exercised here, and not every situation is going to be the same"?

[UndeadMitch]

It depends on how someone is playing their cross gendered PC. If the person is RP'ing the character in an offensive manner, then yes, I'd ask him to tone it down. If someone complains to me that they are offended by the PC for the sole fact that the character is cross gendered then I wouldn't take action. I'm not going to harp on a dude for making a lady PC (or vice versa), unless they're finding a way to be offensive with it. It goes back to the last line of my previous post. Be reasonable, use your best judgment.

[pH unbalanced]

thejeff wrote:

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Mitch Mutrux wrote:

This is 1000% wrong. Pathfinder Society is for everyone. If someone feels uncomfortable or unsafe because of the behavior of another person at the table they absolutely have the right to speak up and make themselves heard.

On the other hand, compromise and accommodation. It should be for everyone. That also means the complainer can't make everyone else conform to their comfort zone. That just means the loudest and most likely to object get their way.

Here's what's up. If someone comes to me saying that player X's action are making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, player X gets one chance to knock it off. If they keep it up they get a one-way ticket out the door. Every person that shows up to a public PFS game has the right to feel safe and welcome. That is not even up for discussion. Of course proper judgment needs to be exercised here, and not every situation is going to be the same.

Just to be clear, to use one of the previous examples: If someone came to you saying that nosig's crossgendered PC was making them uncomfortable, you'd give nosig one chance to knock it off? Change the PC.

Now, nosig's volunteered to do this, which is nice, but it seems above and beyond the call to me. Especially when, as Finlanderboy suggested, others at the table may be enjoying the concept.

Or does that fall into "proper judgment needs to be exercised here, and not every situation is going to be the same"?

Yeah. when nosig put that one on his list I was like immediately like "huh"?

I'm probably oversensitive, but if someone tried to police the gender of one of my characters, I'd be unable to continue playing with them. I'm trans, and I am unable to put up with that crap. I wouldn't be loud, but I would be gone.

There's a big difference between "uncomfortable with particular details of the cross-gender play" and "uncomfortable with the fact of cross-gender play". I have certainly seen people playing cross-gender in a way that can be disruptive -- usually because they are being inappropriately sexual or playing up offensive stereotypes, but the problem there isn't the cross-gender play per se. If a player were making people uncomfortable with their portrayal of a Tien or Mwangi character invoking racial stereotypes, the issue isn't cross-ethnic play.

I feel like someone made uncomfortable simply by the fact of cross-gender play -- much like someone made uncomfortable simply by the fact of cross-ethnic play -- is probably not a good fit for PFS. I would expect that there would end up being a number of aspects to PFS that will make them equally uncomfortable.

EDIT: Added the last paragraph.

[Fromper]

pH unbalanced wrote:

Yeah. when nosig put that one on his list I was like immediately like "huh"?

I'm probably oversensitive, but if someone tried to police the gender of one of my characters, I'd be unable to continue playing with them. I'm trans, and I am unable to put up with that crap. I wouldn't be loud, but I would be gone.

There's a big difference between "uncomfortable with particular details of the cross-gender play" and "uncomfortable with the fact of cross-gender play". I have certainly seen people playing cross-gender in a way that can be disruptive -- usually because they are being inappropriately sexual or playing up offensive stereotypes, but the problem there isn't the cross-gender play per se. If a player were making people uncomfortable with their portrayal of a Tien or Mwangi character invoking racial stereotypes, the issue isn't cross-ethnic play.

I feel like someone made uncomfortable simply by the fact of cross-gender play -- much like someone made uncomfortable simply by the fact of cross-ethnic play -- is probably not a good fit for PFS. I would expect that there would end up being a number of aspects to PFS that will make them equally uncomfortable.

That one struck me as weird, too. So many people play PC's that are different from their own gender that I just don't consider it unusual or noteworthy. The idea of anyone being upset about it, or changing the PC's gender for that adventure to accommodate them, just seems very strange to me.

I agree that anyone who has a problem with cross-gender play really shouldn't be playing in public.