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That can be super tricky, because no player is going to sit down at a table and say "I don't do giant spiders, heights, or killing horses." We are all "surprised" by what is about to be laid before us, so when something that triggers a player at the table it can be really uncomfortable and awkward for everyone. Hopefully the GM and players are understanding. If it's a scripted scenario, there really might not be an easy way around the trigger, and every reasonable accommodations should be made whenever possible. If that isn't possible then...I don't know if PFS GMs are allowed that kind of leeway as far as reflavoring but I see what you're saying. When the player in question mentions that harming animals is his trigger, the GM says 'Oh, they're not horses after all. The stables are full of forest drakes!'.
EVERY PFS GM occassionally ignores the rules. I'll publicly admit that I don't CARE what the rules are here. If somebody is being made uncomfortable and I can change things to make them comfortable and not materially affect the scenario I'm going to do so.
Within reason. Which is very subjective and ill defined.
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It's not avoiding R-rated movies because you're offended by any of nudity, extreme violence, or foul language. You're suggesting avoiding R-Rated movies because you have panic attacks to depictions of suicide - despite the vast majority of R-rated movies not having any suicide, so you'd be fine with them.
That is certainly true, but the person with the "disability" does not at that point demand that the theater stop showing the movie because it depicted the suicide. Nor should they expect the producers to scrub that scene from the movie for their own comfort level. We're not talking about a matter of bigotry or racism, etc., we're talking about a very personal objection. In that case it might be the best course of action for the viewer to get up and leave. No fault, no foul. If no one else in the theater is objecting to the depiction, the individual should not expect them all to conform their perspective. As some have said, tolerance is a two-way street.
Now, of course this is only a semi-analogous story and could be argued from either perceptive. As some have suggested, issues like this cannot be decided in a forum based on hypothetical circumstances. We have to trust our organizers and GMs to apply common sense to each issue on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, we are going to make the wrong resolution. That's life.
Within reason. Which is very subjective and ill defined.
This is the thing
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Things I do that bother other players that I would like to change:
1. Dirty jokes. OK. I'm not too horrible about this. If there are kids present, I don't do it. If there are people I don't know present or who I haven't figured out are cool with it (e.g. because they've made one themselves), I try to stop myself. But if I'm at a table with friends who are fine with it (or who haven't given me a reason to believe otherwise), I tend to find the dirty jokes and references a little too often. Just a couple of days ago I was told that I bring this out in everybody and the whole table goes that way only when I'm present... which tells me I'm doing it more than I want to be.
2. Going on tangents. Again, in moderation, this can be fun. (In fact, recently in a student evaluation of one of my classes -- yeah, yeah, I know that I'm now talking about teaching college rather than playing an RPG, but honestly, GMing has taught me some skills useful in teaching college -- the student wrote that his/her (the student was anoymouse) favorite things where when I did go on tangents. Now, sometimes the tangents are stupid and gratuitous -- for instance, I have a thing about cats. But, in this class, sometimes the tangents were physics-but-not-class material. E.g., I couldn't help but spend 10-15 minutes of class talking about the discovery of gravitational waves when it was published this last semester. On the other hand, I have also received student evaluations in the past that complain I go off on tangents too often.) My brain is restless, and always making connections between things, and sometimes I can't resist going down the rabbit hole. I need to resist more often.
3. Punning (and similar) when it's not in character. Some of m characters would very much do this. Some would not. I sometimes catch myself doing this for the latter, and I'd like to play my character better.
Things that I know some people are annoyed by that I do but that I'm not going to change.
1. Singing at the table. I don't spend too much time on it, it's not disruptive. But, yeah, I'm gonna sing a line or two of a song sometimes. If you really don't like that, probably don't play with me. If the community as a whole finds this antisocial behavior, please let me know so I can leave the community as a whole.
2. Using a GM screen when GMing. I've heard some people say that they think this means it's an untrustworthy GM, and that they wish no GM would do it. Sorry... I need the screen. I like to have the notes and checklists and pawns splayed out in front of me. Personally, I like to avoid spoilers when playing, so I want to give the players the ability to avoid spoilers.
3. Punning ever. Some people think that puns in general are a social faux pas. I will just leave this here.
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noticed one on a different thread to add to my list...
Stealing this word for word from the other poster -
"One of my flaws as a GM is that I can complain too much about the scenario while running it (not before). Especially at a table where I know all the players well. I try to not do this but sometimes the problem is SO egregious that it is REALLY difficult to restrain myself."This is bad. And I do it sometimes. And I'm trying to change that I do it...
In fact, as a GM we should stay very neutral in our language about a scenario. This is something I learned the hard way, when I described a certain season-0 scenario as being "easy", and it ended up with a PC death. We should also not try to pressure people into playing up or down (unless we know the scenario to be extremely difficult, where playing up could easily end up with a TPK. I am looking at you, "In Wrath's Shadow", and you, "Port Godless").
As a GM we should always try and give our best to to make the run of the scenario as fun as we can possibly make it, in spite of its potential flaws. Our opinions need not come out, at all, as the only thing they can do is to lessen the experience of the players who haven't read it.
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I was also a player at the PaizoCon table where the issue of killing horses came up, raising the trigger concern described. I'm not inclined to wrestle with the broad issues of how to address such things in PFS, as I think they're very situation-dependent, and we should all just do our best to be decent and kind, and make sure we all have a good time playing the game we love.
In the case in question, the way the trigger issue came up and was then vociferously supported by the triggered player's friend really did leave the rest of the table confused and brought play to a halt.
I just want to say that, whatever the GM, rknop, might have thought of the player, his issue, the way the issue was raised, or anything else, none of that was apparent to the players at the time. rknop handled an awkward moment graciously and smoothly, as I think all the players at the table would agree. There was a bit of tension at the table and he got us going again, and ran a really fun, exciting game, where we worked well together in spite of being somewhat at odds earlier on.
And I think his puns are awesome.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Things that I know some people are annoyed by that I do but that I'm not going to change.
1. Singing at the table. I don't spend too much time on it, it's not disruptive. But, yeah, I'm gonna sing a line or two of a song sometimes. If you really don't like that, probably don't play with me. If the community as a whole finds this antisocial behavior, please let me know so I can leave the community as a whole.
This is actually pushing it. A line or two is fine but depending on the people that can actually get relatively painful if you go overboard.
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This is actually pushing it. A line or two is fine but depending on the people that can actually get relatively painful if you go overboard.Things that I know some people are annoyed by that I do but that I'm not going to change.
1. Singing at the table. I don't spend too much time on it, it's not disruptive. But, yeah, I'm gonna sing a line or two of a song sometimes. If you really don't like that, probably don't play with me. If the community as a whole finds this antisocial behavior, please let me know so I can leave the community as a whole.
Singing a line or two is disruptive? Last I checked the R in RPG stood for Role playing a bard should sing. In fact I know some GMs make the bards sing like I make players actually come up with words to intimidate people.
Heck if I could build real life traps to make the rogue disable them I would (just kidding or am I).
Things that are disruptive I don't know texting friends or playing on Facebook during the scenarios.
Having some one summon the Kool Aid man.oh yeah
Face it a few people that tend to gravitate to games like pathfinder my be socially awkward and have nervous ticks such as leg bouncing annoying laughs ect. Don't shame them and try to be accepting let people role play if it gets crazy like the old man role playing a creepy pervert and takes the 16 year old girls pc off to have sex yes stop that right there (I would probably be asked to not come back to open play as I remove him myself from the table).
Also this stuff about triggers with my back ground I really have a hard time understanding playing a fantasy game and having someone freak out because of spider or people killing horses in game but at least I'm adult enough to try and show compassion and would maybe try and get more info from said person after the game.
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Singing a line or two is disruptive? Last I checked the R in RPG stood for Role playing a bard should sing. In fact I know some GMs make the bards sing like I make players actually come up with words to intimidate people.
Just making sure, if I'm playing a bard who doesn't sing but does oratory instead I'm allowed to 'wax dramatic' like a true thespian? If I'm playing a drummer I'm allowed to rumble the table as I emulate drumming?
Heck if I could build real life traps to make the rogue disable them I would (just kidding or am I).
It's all fun and games until someone gets a finger caught in a mouse trap. Did that in a non-PFS endeavor years ago. That sort of thing isn't a good idea.
Things that are disruptive I don't know texting friends or playing on Facebook during the scenarios.
Yes, very much this.
Also this stuff about triggers with my back ground I really have a hard time understanding playing a fantasy game and having someone freak out because of spider or people killing horses in game but at least I'm adult enough to try and show compassion and would maybe try and get more info from said person after the game.
Someone pulled out a miniature to 'represent' a thing we'd encountered in a game. Since it was 'representing' and not the actual target, the 'proxy' should be okay, right?
No, the 'proxy' was *trigger* and I went from my talk carrying the table to a most unusual path through a scenario to not looking at the table, saying maybe a sentence per round (if that) and generally trying to *not freak out*.
The person who put the 'proxy' out realized AFTER what the issue was, and did apologize, to their credit.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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The line between disruptive and RP is gonna vary based on location, players, and the GM.
If everyone participating acts like a mature and responsible individual, there are never any problems. Therefore, if there are problems... well, you know the rest. Remember Wheaton's Law and it'll be fine.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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This is actually pushing it. A line or two is fine but depending on the people that can actually get relatively painful if you go overboard.Things that I know some people are annoyed by that I do but that I'm not going to change.
1. Singing at the table. I don't spend too much time on it, it's not disruptive. But, yeah, I'm gonna sing a line or two of a song sometimes. If you really don't like that, probably don't play with me. If the community as a whole finds this antisocial behavior, please let me know so I can leave the community as a whole.
Singing a line or two is disruptive? Last I checked the R in RPG stood for Role playing a bard should sing. In fact I know some GMs make the bards sing like I make players actually come up with words to intimidate people.
Yup.... Under the right circumstances with me its as enjoyable as having my hand bashed repeatedly by a hammer. In fact when Im suffering from those types of episodes I'd rather take the hammer. And mind you normally Im fine with it but still it can be disruptive.
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Heck if I could build real life traps to make the rogue disable them I would (just kidding or am I).
I totally did that. Back in 2nd ed days. I had a buzzer from some board game that went off when the pressure was removed from the button on it. Put that in an index card box and gave it to a couple kids that wanted an introduction to RPGs. They didn't have a trap disarmer so the alarm trap was a lesson that being able to disarm traps is useful. Of course you can guess what happened. *shake box* *my character didn't do that* *yes you did*
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Anyway, I guess this thread did serve its purpose. I wanted to learn what to expect if I started running scenarios. It just didn't turn out the way I was expecting.
I originally was going to post in the how to bring RP back to PFS thread but thought it might better be its own thread.
I was thinking I'd come home from work and find either light-hearted stuff like that character with Craft:Chocolatier who passed out candy IRL and made a mess. Or the creepy stuff like the barbarian who smears the blood of fallen foes on his face.
Instead I found more than a few people said leave the RP for home, don't act how you think a 150 year old elf does, we need to get this done fast and it is a "good" thing if we finish in only 2 hours.
You can't see them all now since at least a couple were the 80% Personal Flame then throw in a couple sentences at the end. They ended up being leave it at home.
In retrospect it did end up being a learning experience.
I'm not so sure I want to run scenarios for PFS anymore.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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Agreed. I've had wonderful roleplay in PFS, and great experiences playing.
Don't let the forum arguments drive you away. We have a lot of posters who seem to enjoy arguing, but when people sit down at a gaming table, they game. And we usually have an awesome time, too.
Hmm
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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Anyway, I guess this thread did serve its purpose. I wanted to learn what to expect if I started running scenarios. It just didn't turn out the way I was expecting.
I originally was going to post in the how to bring RP back to PFS thread but thought it might better be its own thread.
I was thinking I'd come home from work and find either light-hearted stuff like that character with Craft:Chocolatier who passed out candy IRL and made a mess. Or the creepy stuff like the barbarian who smears the blood of fallen foes on his face.
Instead I found more than a few people said leave the RP for home, don't act how you think a 150 year old elf does, we need to get this done fast and it is a "good" thing if we finish in only 2 hours.
You can't see them all now since at least a couple were the 80% Personal Flame then throw in a couple sentences at the end. They ended up being leave it at home.
In retrospect it did end up being a learning experience.
I'm not so sure I want to run scenarios for PFS anymore.
I hope you change your mind about running PFS.
I have a theory about why this thread went negative. It wasn't because we don't like to RP. Most of us love it. I think it was having the word, "disruptive," in the title.
Disruptive is a word with really strong connotations in organized play. It does not mean silly or light-hearted or even creepy weird. It means something that literally disrupts play and makes large problems afterwards. So asking about disruptive RP invited people to complain about things that they had very strong feelings about. There was a lot of table variation and disagreement about what constitutes disruptive behavior, in part because disruptive can be a divisive word.
If this title had asked about over-the-top RP, I think that you would have gotten the more light-hearted responses you were expecting. If you want to get a better sense of people having fun and going over the top with their roleplay, look at the following threads:
"You want to keep WHAT from the scenario?" after post 8.
Got any good PFS game stories?
I've had absurd amounts of fun in PFS games. I have a PFS game running right now where all the characters are tengus. One of the players is a grandmother paladin who likes fussing over the other characters as her 'children.' The other characters not only put up with it, but totally got into it, and now I have this wonderful family dynamic going on in my tengu flock.
Are they over the top? Maybe a little. But they're fun and not at all disruptive. You want to RP and GM PFS? Go for it. I'm sure your tables will love you.
Hmm
PS As someone who has worn a tiara while roleplaying Sheila Heidmarch, I'm all for you carrying a plastic rose as Kreighton Shane.
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Role Playing isn't disruptive for a Role Playing Game.
That said, if the GM feels the weight of time and needs to cut things short, that is entirely reasonable. Likewise, overly RP groups may need to a lot more time for sessions.
And as mentioned, players shouldn't be ruining the fun value for others. Some degree of uncomfortably is normal when players are RPing very unusual characters contrary to their out-of-character existence. For instance, male GMs playing the seductive female NPC makes me uncomfortable. That said, it's just good RP. If it becomes unbearable, I'd say something.
Basically, I think it's normal that RP makes players uncomfortable, but it shouldn't be unbearable.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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It's like rule 34: everything bothers someone.
You realize now that now you've done it, BNW. Season 8 will be the season of planar travel. I'm quite certain now that we'll have to have a scenario where you travel to the Plane of Coldplay in order to rescue all those Pathfinders who got sucked there.
Hmm
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It's like rule 34: everything bothers someone.You realize now that now you've done it, BNW. Season 8 will be the season of planar travel. I'm quite certain now that we'll have to have a scenario where you travel to the Plane of Coldplay in order to rescue all those Pathfinders who got sucked there.
Hmm
5 pp will get you back from hell.
THAT plane's gonna cost you double to assemble an all deaf oracle party
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You should have seen the SWAT team at Paizo Con. At the table of Bid for Alabastrine, it literally took 56 minutes to get through the briefing. All due to role playing. And that was with a time limit. However, we managed to complete the scenario with flying colors, and that included our mandatory coffee break (with donuts) halfway through the scenario.
That was on a Sunday morning, after the banquet the big before. It was a blast!
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You should have seen the SWAT team at Paizo Con. At the table of Bid for Alabastrine, it literally took 56 minutes to get through the briefing. All due to role playing. And that was with a time limit. However, we managed to complete the scenario with flying colors, and that included our mandatory coffee break (with donuts) halfway through the scenario.
That was on a Sunday morning, after the banquet the big before. It was a blast!
"You guys should have seen the sweet moves I was laying down on that chick. Once Dicky gets going, there was no way on this green Golarion that she was gonna work with any one but me. That's right; not only am I a member of SWAT (You've tried the rest, now send in the Best), but I am a successful business man as well. All of you should stop by the Boar 'n Oysters for mug or three and some fresh oysters. Good crowd tonight."
Keep it simple. Play this game. Have fun.
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You should have seen the SWAT team at Paizo Con. At the table of Bid for Alabastrine, it literally took 56 minutes to get through the briefing. All due to role playing. And that was with a time limit. However, we managed to complete the scenario with flying colors, and that included our mandatory coffee break (with donuts) halfway through the scenario.
Ain't nuthin like the gm dropping his head in joyous tears at the shenanigans. Except maybe when he walked away during the break and realized we were staying in character for the union break around the water cooler.
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You should have seen the SWAT team at Paizo Con. At the table of Bid for Alabastrine, it literally took 56 minutes to get through the briefing. All due to role playing. And that was with a time limit. However, we managed to complete the scenario with flying colors, and that included our mandatory coffee break (with donuts) halfway through the scenario.
That was on a Sunday morning, after the banquet the big before. It was a blast!
We took 56 minutes to get through the briefing because nobody can keep Dicky on task. I swear he'd lose his head if it weren't attached. But in this case we succeeded in spite of being labeled a group of loud, overzealous murder-hobos and were warned of our pending failure by the scenario author himself. If that's not proof you can't beat anything in spite of labels, I don't know what is.
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If that's not proof you can't beat anything in spite of labels, I don't know what is.
You can't possibly be suggesting that this rag-tag group of immature law enforcers is some sort of... underdog story?
Or, even worse, that we are some sort of example that a completely in-character group can accomplish complex scenarios with as much efficiency as those that simply reference numbers, dice, and character sheets?
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If that's not proof you can't beat anything in spite of labels, I don't know what is.You can't possibly be suggesting that this rag-tag group of immature law enforcers is some sort of... underdog story?
Or, even worse, that we are some sort of example that a completely in-character group can accomplish complex scenarios with as much efficiency as those that simply reference numbers, dice, and character sheets?
Hey, Rico, underdog? Let's not be talking about Ri'chard's mom like that.
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"C'mon Dicky. Time and a place for that.... you know how sensitive Ri'chard gets when you talk about her ma' in front of IA.
But i was chatting with this one guy down at the boar - goes by the name of Thursty... nice guy. Was real impressed how well we..." [redacted]
"Ah shoot... they classified that mission detail. Ah well. "
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There's also a simpler way to give time for RP - don't play in a game store or a con. 6 hours of Haunting of Hinojai? No problem!
And yes, I do realise this isn't viable for everyone, but these internet talks tend to favor hobby shop and online play and ergo overstate time limits and hurry, dropped players, tired or angry GM's etc etc. I mean, I've never had to hurry a game and there's always been time for RP.
This campaign can be such a different experience from venue to venue, so don't shun it before you try!
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"Muser, don't matter if you're at a con or not. As we said, we pulled off a 56 minute briefing in a 5 hour slot... and finished early. Now, we were all surprised when [redacted] tried to [redacted] a bunch of [redacted]. The looks on our faces were priceless."
"Of course, it was also a thing of beauty when the one had us look over his [redacted] and it was my skill in being a cop that won the day. The fact that he didn't think of [redacted] when he created the [redacted] was astounding."
Damn IA... always marking up our reports...
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"Slinky dress? I wear my combat fatigues just like you do. Just because I like the look of these shoes does not mean I can't run just as fast. Just because I spend more time with dead bodies and crime scenes than shooting my gun doesn't make my attire any less appropriate.
Besides, is that a dead beaver on your head? He did get shot up pretty bad, but man, that's just COLD."