Tiefling or Goblin Alchemist?


Advice


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I will be joining a small group playing in RoW. The GM got pretty excited when I mentioned the thought of an Alchemist and is nudging me in that direction all though I looked at many options.
He is letting us use any non 3rd party books. 25 point buy. I will be joining at 4th level. Wanting to weigh the pros and cons of either Tiefling or Goblin.

For RP the goblin would be fun but I will also need some good reason for him to join the group. The Tiefling has some cool factor because wings, tail, and such.

What are your thoughts?


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Lunchbox3000 wrote:

I will be joining a small group playing in RoW. The GM got pretty excited when I mentioned the thought of an Alchemist and is nudging me in that direction all though I looked at many options.

He is letting us use any non 3rd party books. 25 point buy. I will be joining at 4th level. Wanting to weigh the pros and cons of either Tiefling or Goblin.

For RP the goblin would be fun but I will also need some good reason for him to join the group. The Tiefling has some cool factor because wings, tail, and such.

What are your thoughts?

"For RP the goblin would be fun" To me, that would seal it. Play what would be fun. It is a game after all.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why would a Goblin in Irissen join a group? What is his motivation and why would he follow these people?
The party is a summoner, sorcerer, and hunter with a mammoth. I do not know what races.


All I can tell you is that my goblin alchemist grenadier/winged marauder is one of the most fun characters I've ever played.

Now in my case, my goblin is "refined", and was trained and mentored by a gnome noctumancer.

That said, even a traditional goblin could have reasons for joining a party of non-goblins. For one, just playing up a chaotic alignment makes things easy. Maybe your goblin has wanderlust (fits nicely with a winged marauder.) Maybe (likely), your goblin learned the forbidden practice of writing and was either exiled or fled for his life.

One of my inspirations for my goblin PC is Stitch from Lilo & Stitch: very intelligent, loyal to his friends, but an avatar of destruction.


Any goblin who become an alchemist is going to be, be definition, an unusual goblin. He has probably learned to read and everything.

So your goblin in an outcast already, and probably needs someone like the PCs to help him navigate the human-centric world. If he had that chance to join that group, I can easily imagine him jumping at the opportunity.

The bigger question is why (beyond the I can see you are a PC and we have a gap in our marching order) a group of adventurers would want a goblin to join their team. There are tons of reasons, and asking the other players if they have any thoughts on reasons their characters would want, or at least agree to, a goblin alchemist joining them that wouldn't be a bad thing. Coming up with that sort of thing together can make a group feel a lot more organic.

If I was running the game I'd suggest an NPC in common with the goblin and one or more of the others, basically someone that got you together. Their are no other INT based magics in the group, so that seems unlikely but the mentor of the hunter could have encountered your goblin fleeing for his life from his village or of course it could just be any NPC that both of you could know that arranges for you to join (or at least try out) the existing group.


Because Goblin's Love Fire, Fire is God! And God is in a Bottle! Alchemist Fire! *manic laughter* Also you could dip into Gunslinger, a few specials for goblins there(or was that in ARG?) that goblins can use medium sized pistols with out penalty and can use with Alchemist rounds!

As to Tiefling, I'd see infernal bloodline sorcerer more fitting.


One thing that I immediately see (and I just can't recommend this archetype enough) that could connect the party to your goblin is that if you take winged marauder, you have at least two other pet classes in the party. The party seeing the bond you have with your companion (particularly if your companion is well-tended) could be enough to get the hunter and summoner to trust you.

As N.Jolly says in his alchemist guide, "LOVE YOUR SKY MONSTER!"


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Should I combine both fire bomber and winged marauder? Any build recommendations?

The Exchange

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I played a Rise of the Runelords where we had a Goblin Barbarian who joined the party to avenge his beloved PooG after Poog and the rest of his clan were wiped out by rival goblin villages. Made for some dramatic reasons why he stuck with us as we smashed everyone who had anything to do with PooG's death.


Lunchbox3000 wrote:
Should I combine both fire bomber and winged marauder? Any build recommendations?

There's no reason *not* to take Winged Marauder - all it costs you is a discovery, since you can always pick mutagen back up if you decide you want it. In exchange, you get a full-level animal companion (regardless of not being much of a combat companion, never underestimate being able to fly overhead and drop bombs from above - the bombard animal trick is your friend.)

Personally, I much prefer grenadier over fire bomber, but that's just me.

The best build advice you could ever ask for is going to be in N.Jolly's Alchemist Guide (a quick Google search will find it straight away,) but I'll be happy to share my build.

With grenadier, I picked up longbow proficiency, and the free precise bomb discovery at 2 was worth a feat in its own right.

I went the Explosive Missile discovery route, which coupled with Alchemical Weapon allows you to get your Int mod twice to damage (some may argue this point, but it's to both your advantage and detriment - the damage from your bomb and from your alchemical weapon are separate sources, so you add the damage independently, but that also means resistances apply separately against each.) Later on, the conductive weapon property and Targeted Bomb Admixture mean that I'm adding 5x Int mod on each shot, not to mention boatloads of damage dice (at a cost of 3 bombs/shot, of course.)

Tangleshot and dye arrows are my best friends, allowing me to retain my Touch AC attacks at the cost of arrow damage. Tangleshot arrows are especially amazing, providing great debuffs, even on a failed save.

I'd also given incredible consideration to going the Conductive Launching Crossbow path, in which you go for Launching Crossbow proficiency, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and Crossbow Mastery to just fire all the alchemical items at the cost of all your gold. Can't tell you why I went Explosive Missile instead, but I've really enjoyed it.

We had a 20-point buy for our Iron Gods game, so I went with:

S 12 (reduced to 10)
D 14 (upped to 18)
C 10
I 18
W 10
Ch 7 (reduced to 5 - what? I'm a goblin. If there was ever a justifiable Cha dump character, it's a goblin.)

My traits were Clever Wordplay (Handle Animal) and Pragmatic Activator. I later picked up Firebug and Wicked Leader (we houserule that Extra Traits allows you to get one extra trait from a category you already have, but if I wasn't going for Leadership, I'd have skipped this or picked something else.)

Notable feats include Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Extra Discovery, Extra Traits, and Leadership, but I found a refreshing and surprising amount of wiggle room with feats. They're just not that important for you, so the Launching Crossbow route isn't as crazy as it sounds.

Notable discoveries include infusion, frost bomb, force bomb, and shock bomb (this is an Iron Gods game, so shock bomb is much better than it would usually be), as well as my tumor familiar. The smoke bomb/stink bomb route is one I didn't explore, but was a top consideration.

Notable equipment is surprisingly light. My conductive bow does most of the heavy lifting. A hybridization funnel is a must-have, but is easily available. If you're allowed to get medlances, get medlances. Get all the medlances. Get spring-loaded wrist sheaths, too, for you and your friends (especially if you have access to medlances.) Poisoner's gloves and a sipping jacket are classics, but my prize possessions are my boots of teleportation.


Lunchbox3000 wrote:
Why would a Goblin in Irissen join a group? What is his motivation and why would he follow these people?

There are lots of nasty things in Irrisen. Lots. Trolls and Winter Wolves are only but the first things that spring to mind, the rest are worse. None have much care for Goblins. A group of strong individuals who aren't in bed with the Winter Witches can be really useful. Even if they're all longshanks. What can you offer? Fire, FIRE! Fire is what keeps you and everyone else with a sliver of heart alive in Irrisen.


Tiefling alchemists can be absolutely brutal if you go for a bombing build, which it seems you are. Their unique favored class bonus gives +1/2 bomb damage every level, meaning you'll be doing even more damage with your bombs which means you deal even more splash damage. Also, as you said, tieflings are fun to play and can do a lot of neat things; they also work well as switch hitter alchemists with their claws that they can get.

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