Daring General and Leadership


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Aides-de-camp ability of the Daring General cavalier archetype gives me a "modified version of the Leadership feat at 6th level."
Does this mean that I cannot take the leadership feat at 7th level?

Could I take Vile Leadership instead?

If it's a modified version of a feat, does that mean it is still subject to traits that change the cohort level requirement of the Leadership feat, such as Wicked Leader?

What about interacting with the prestige class Noble Scion?


Terrordactyl wrote:

The Aides-de-camp ability of the Daring General cavalier archetype gives me a "modified version of the Leadership feat at 6th level."

Does this mean that I cannot take the leadership feat at 7th level?

Could I take Vile Leadership instead?

If it's a modified version of a feat, does that mean it is still subject to traits that change the cohort level requirement of the Leadership feat, such as Wicked Leader?

What about interacting with the prestige class Noble Scion?

Linkified

Reference: Squire

1) You cannot have both Leadership and Vile Leadership at the same time. [V.L. rule]
2) Squire becomes Leadership at 7th level.

Squire:
Graduation: When you reach 7th level, this feat automatically upgrades to the Leadership feat (meaning that you effectively lose this feat and replace it with Leadership).

Graduation Benefits: You gain all the normal benefits of the Leadership feat, except that your squire must remain at least three levels lower than you and must continue to take levels in her first class. In order for your squire to be able to be two levels lower than you, your squire must be at least 4th level, and you must witness her as she singlehandedly defeats a creature with Hit Dice equal to or greater than her own. Upon the creature's defeat, your squire graduates to full knighthood and acts as a normal cohort; she may begin taking levels in other classes if she so chooses, and she may increase in level to up to two levels lower than yourself.


3) Like Squire, Aides-de-camp is a modified Leadership. I would rule it functions as the Leadership feat for qualifying purposes. So you cannot get both [since you cannot take a feat twice normally], and cannot take Vile Leadership [rule 1]
4) RAW, the prestige class changes the limit from -2 to -1 or 0, however Aides-de-camp's limit is not -2, so it would not apply. RAI, I would bump the AdC limit by 1 or 2. The PrC also gives you the Leadership feat. You basically loose the free feat by gaining it via two class options. I would say you get the AdC version, and at PrC2 and PrC10 raise the max cohort level by 1.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Cevah wrote:
Terrordactyl wrote:

The Aides-de-camp ability of the Daring General cavalier archetype gives me a "modified version of the Leadership feat at 6th level."

Does this mean that I cannot take the leadership feat at 7th level?

Could I take Vile Leadership instead?

If it's a modified version of a feat, does that mean it is still subject to traits that change the cohort level requirement of the Leadership feat, such as Wicked Leader?

What about interacting with the prestige class Noble Scion?

Linkified

Reference: Squire

1) You cannot have both Leadership and Vile Leadership at the same time. [V.L. rule]
2) Squire becomes Leadership at 7th level.
3) Like Squire, Aides-de-camp is a modified Leadership. I would rule it functions as the Leadership feat for qualifying purposes. So you cannot get both [since you cannot take a feat twice normally], and cannot take Vile Leadership [rule 1]
4) RAW, the prestige class changes the limit from -2 to -1 or 0, however Aides-de-camp's limit is not -2, so it would not apply. RAI, I would bump the AdC limit by 1 or 2. The PrC also gives you the Leadership feat. You basically loose the free feat by gaining it via two class options. I would say you get the AdC version, and at PrC2 and PrC10 raise the max cohort level by 1.
/cevah

Cevah has hit this pretty much on the money, but I'd argue that on #4, the RAW specifies that Greater Leadership and Aides-de-Camp would stack as if Aides-de-Camp were a noraml leadership feat. While the Aides-de-Camp sets the maximum level of the cohorts to be Cavalier Level -4, the Greater Leadership changes the maximum level of cohorts to be character level -1.

Aides-de-Camp: A daring general gains a modified version of the Leadership feat at 6th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites. [...] All cohorts that the daring general gains from this ability must have levels only in classes that grant a full base attack bonus (such as barbarian, fighter, paladin, or ranger), and must be at least 4 levels lower than the daring general himself.

Greater Leadership: He can recruit a cohort up to one level lower than himself. At 10th level, he can recruit a cohort of the same level as himself.

The wording of Greater Leadership does not seem to interact with the -4 levels normally associated with Aides-de-Camp, but instead considers it as the normal Leader ship feat that it is considered. Although, RAI, I believe that Aides-de-Camp should certainly benefit merely from a +1 and eventually +2 maximum effective level of cohorts, the RAW effectively negates that penalty that is present to offset the additional cohorts.

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