Swashbuckler damage issue


Advice


So, I'm looking at the Swashbuckler class, and I'm really trying to understand how to make this a really effective damage dealing class. I love the idea of this class, and it seems like it would be a lot of fun to play, but I don't see how to get much damage out of it in the early levels. I mean, 3rd level you get precise strike and 5th level you get weapon training, but I feel like if I'm in a group with a barbarian, a rogue or a fighter with power attack, my measley attacks would be paling in comparison to theirs. Is there something I am missing? How do I get more out my swashbuckler?


You need power attack, a high stat, and make use of your riposte to get extra attacks in a turn.


My wife and I worked out an Intimidate build with skill unlock. She pretty much panics most creatures than takes free attacks on those running away, making them sickened as well. This drops their saves and attacks to such a degree they are unable to fight back for a few turns. After that it's clean up.


Well...get power attack/piranha strike (power attack for most finesse weapons). That is the basis of getting more damage for most melee characters.

The scaling bonus to damage from precise strike is basically designed to only to make up for the difference between a 1 handed weapon with power attack and a 2 handed weapon with power attack (assuming decent strength and full martial). It might pull ahead a bit later on, but for most of the time, it just serves as a way to get your basic style not to suck. Simple as that. I view it as more valuable for allowing non TWF sword and board to work (allowing me to get great AC without a ton of TWF feats).

So how do you do good damage? Same way a fighter does, really. You have something similar to weapon training, you qualify for weapon expertise. That, along with the fact that you can also get some extra attacks with riposte... really, nothing specifically to complain about after level 3 (I can certainly see complaints in level 1-2 before that turns on; still, you should be close to 3/4 BAB chatacters in general at that point).

Now, other ways to increase damage- cornugon smash and hurtful is never a bad combo. It means power attack, but you only need 13 for that, and it is the damage booster for some of the better weapons (rapier doesn't qualify for piranaha strike, if I remember right; important since rapiers can both grab power attack and dex to damage at level 1 with the inspired blade archetype on a human).


Quote:
You need power attack, a high stat, and make use of your riposte to get extra attacks in a turn.

I was thinking that Chess Pwn, but I feel like Power attack doesn't exactly fit with a swashbucklers fighting style, and Dex and Charisma seem like the main ability scores, which doesn't leave more than a +1 for Strength. The extra attacks from riposte helps though.


Quote:
My wife and I worked out an Intimidate build with skill unlock. She pretty much panics most creatures than takes free attacks on those running away, making them sickened as well. This drops their saves and attacks to such a degree they are unable to fight back for a few turns. After that it's clean up.

Wow, that is a REALLY creative solution! You really gotta think outside the box to come up with that. Love it.


Well, it was clear she could shake people with crit, and her crit were... often. So we thought, let's build someone that works on that.

With a cruel and fortuitous weapon, all you need is to really focus on Intimidate and then enjoy hitting them twice as they run away, hopefully dropping everything they have to get away. Even if they come back, they are unarmed and sickened and shaken.

I appreciate that you like the build. I was very happy with how it's changed out skull and shackles game. She's chewing through anything I can throw at her so long as it can be scared. Even then she's still able to reposte and throw a lot of attacks around.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Narango wrote:


I was thinking that Chess Pwn, but I feel like Power attack doesn't exactly fit with a swashbucklers fighting style, and Dex and Charisma seem like the main ability scores, which doesn't leave more than a +1 for Strength. The extra attacks from riposte helps though.

If you want a cinematic example of what's essentially Power Attack with a rapier, take a look at the fight scenes in Richard Lester's '70s version of The Three Musketeers/The Four Musketeers.


Narango wrote:
Quote:
You need power attack, a high stat, and make use of your riposte to get extra attacks in a turn.
I was thinking that Chess Pwn, but I feel like Power attack doesn't exactly fit with a swashbucklers fighting style, and Dex and Charisma seem like the main ability scores, which doesn't leave more than a +1 for Strength. The extra attacks from riposte helps though.

Actually, it isn't that hard. Here are some example stats:

str: 13 dex: 16 (14) con:14 int:10 wis:12 cha: 14.

A 16 in your melee stat is about where I generally put it for characters with a mental stat to consider as well (switch the dex and str, and this is basically what I would use for a melee bard or inquisitor, for example).

I only put the minimum str for power attack. Since I usually go some variant of 16/14/14/14, going with a 13 left a couple of points left over that I decided to put into wis. But I could just as easily make it dex: 17 (15), which means you can bump it up at 4th level to 18.

I view having a bit of strength as acceptable otherwise since this is a class that uses armor, has a weapon, and is highly encouraged to use a shield. Throw on other adventuring equipment, and you might as well ahve some carrying capacity. And that is also disregarding the fact that a swashbuckler doesn't 'have' to be dex based (the mechanics are dex friendly, not required; actually, it kind of removes a lot of the need for dex build, sicne it has good reflex, ability to grab good AC with shields, and boosts initiative).

Anyway, even if you don't want to go with 'power attack' due to the need for strength, why don't you go with piranha strike? It is basically the same thing, but for light weapons only and uses dex as the prerequisite. Slightly off in that it doesn't cover things like rapiers, but otherwise fine.


Cavall, any chance you could share a bit more about the Intimidate build you put together?


Krell44 wrote:
Cavall, any chance you could share a bit more about the Intimidate build you put together?

Well sure. I'll see what I can remember since it's her sheets. Gimme a minute. I'd love to contribute.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Where is Pirahna Strike?


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where is Pirahna Strike?

One of the companion books. "Sargava, the Lost Colony" from the looks of it.

Anyway, there is also the option of going for a dip in another class to get regular power attack. Rangers/slayers can grab it with the 2 handed style, for example. That has always been a trick to get an elven curved blade with x1.5 power attack bonuses while still going dex.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
lemeres wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where is Pirahna Strike?

One of the companion books. "Sargava, the Lost Colony" from the looks of it.

I've seen Strike come up a lot, I find it hard to believe that it's just one splat-book given the prevalence?

I mean, I could be mistaken, of course.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where is Pirahna Strike?

One of the companion books. "Sargava, the Lost Colony" from the looks of it.

I've seen Strike come up a lot, I find it hard to believe that it's just one splat-book given the prevalence?

I mean, I could be mistaken, of course.

That actually is the only place it was printed.


I have a Swashbuckler10/Oracle 1 in a Skull and Shackles game and my damage is 2d6+20. I have have Critical Focus (15-20 range) and Critical Expertise (1d20+23 to confirm for me) but only 1d6+10 is multiplied on a crit. Swashbuckler takes a lot of pieces to come together to make it outpace other classes but it works just fine on it's own.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok so basically a cruel fortuitous weapon. This allows use of more than one attack when doing an attack of opportunity. Some debate of if you need combat reflexes to make it work but... not an issue for this build.

She went inspiring blade. That meant charisma was a focus, as well as int. Good because Intimidate works for charisma, but also gave her a decent pool to play with in addition to giving her all the things she would want by level 5. Weapon focus Weapon finesse and improved critical.

Take skill unlock Intimidate at level 5. If you can afford it, take skill focus or a trait to boost it. By level 5 you can swift action Intimidate someone so long as you have a panache (which lucky for her she doubled up on the pool size). With say a 16 charisma that's 14+ to the roll. Beat a 10 plus HD plus wisdom (which most monsters don't have a lot of) and basically on a 12 or so they run. She stabs them once for attack of opportunity then again at -5 for fortuitous. The first hit makes them sick because of Cruel.

Shaken plus sick means -4 to attack and saves and checks and -2 to damage. Now here it's important to note she's hit them 3 times. It's likely killed them. So, free temp HP because of cruel weapon!

(I should add she didn't get cruel til a bit in, it just worked well and this is an example. You likely may have to wait until 7 th level for the cash)

She then picked up dazzling display. After all, they gave her the Pre req for free. Then on to Disheartening display. Now she can AOE fear and shake (maybe panic or frighten some) and take the person she just made shaken if they are still around take off. So even with min or success she wins.

And lastly violent display feat. Remember that at level 5 she gets a 15 to 20 crit range. Now criting means aoe fear. So swift action fear the guy, end of turn spend your immediate to aoe everyone.

And because you're built on combat reflexes and fortuitous, sometimes you can actually crit a guy not on your turn and do an immediate aoe fear. So if you didn't crit him and just swift action feared him, get your free hits in and then if you crit, fear them all.

That's the build we came up with. You don't need a cruel weapon but... Temp hp and lowered attacks and damage on you allow you to be front line (or with Acrobatics just flank and murder).

You really want a strong int, Dex and charisma. At least 16 dEx and charisma and 14 int if you go inspired blade.

That's about 4 feats and a plus 3 rapier in cost. For a human (why not get that extra panache every few levels) this is very doable by level 6 with retraining or 7 if not. By level 10 skill unlocks make panic happen. Then you're unstoppable.

I only reccomend inspired blade because it gives you the feats you'll use anyways.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay.

That's it.

No more buying materials to get one feat.

Please do not *donate* materials to get one feat, either.

It's not even a money thing.

It's a weight thing.

I need the hard-copy to be able to read it properly, and the books I need to bring with me are currently in the 20-30# range, and that's with the Humble .pdf 'shortcut'.

I'll try to figure out some way that isn't the 'only way' to make my swashbuckler work.

Thanks to everyone who answered my query.


So, is there an easy way for A swashbuckler to get DEX to Damage?


Krell44 wrote:
So, is there an easy way for A swashbuckler to get DEX to Damage?

Slashing Grace for one-handed slashing weapons

Fencing Grace for rapiers
Starry Grace for starknives


Narango wrote:
Quote:
You need power attack, a high stat, and make use of your riposte to get extra attacks in a turn.
I was thinking that Chess Pwn, but I feel like Power attack doesn't exactly fit with a swashbucklers fighting style, and Dex and Charisma seem like the main ability scores, which doesn't leave more than a +1 for Strength. The extra attacks from riposte helps though.

So mess with expectations. Go high Strength and use a Spiked Gauntlet or Heavy Pick. Destroy things with precision~


Clever use of the Skill Unlock, Cavall!

I'm going to throw out a couple of other options that could be used to make variations on that build.

* If you want to focus on Int instead of Cha for Intimidate, the Bruising Intellect trait is great.

* The Ominous weapon special ability adds the rapier's enhancement bonus to your Intimidate check and adds Shaken on a crit.

* If you wanted to use Enforcer, Stage Combatant will let you deal non-lethal damage with your rapier. Inspired Blades already meet the prerequisite of Weapon Focus (rapier), but you'd have to wait until your BAB is +5 to take it.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where is Pirahna Strike?

One of the companion books. "Sargava, the Lost Colony" from the looks of it.

I've seen Strike come up a lot, I find it hard to believe that it's just one splat-book given the prevalence?

I mean, I could be mistaken, of course.

a.- I am a child of the online sources myself. So that likely adds to its prevalence

b.- it fits this kind of situation entirely. Power attack without the need for str.

Cavall wrote:
She went inspiring blade. That meant charisma was a focus, as well as int.

You hardly have to go with int if you are an inspired blade. You get a minimum of 1 extra panche from int. So there is no difference between 5 int and 12 int. Since cha can go to saves, you can just forget int and leave it as is.

Really, you can just play it like a regular swashbuckler with a slightly higher pool, but one less recharge method (Since it is crits only; not that bad, since it is a high crit weapon. You are better off than people using daggers, for example).

Krell44 wrote:
So, is there an easy way for A swashbuckler to get DEX to Damage?

Fencing grace may often be preferred, since you can get the weapon focus for free as an inspired blade. So dex to damage at level 1 no matter the race.


Gisher wrote:

Clever use of the Skill Unlock, Cavall!

I'm going to throw out a couple of other options that could be used to make variations on that build.

* If you want to focus on Int instead of Cha for Intimidate, the Bruising Intellect trait is great.

* The Ominous weapon special ability adds the rapier's enhancement bonus to your Intimidate check and adds Shaken on a crit.

* If you wanted to use Enforcer, Stage Combatant will let you deal non-lethal damage with your rapier. Inspired Blades already meet the prerequisite of Weapon Focus (rapier), but you'd have to wait until your BAB is +5 to take it.

Thank you Gisher! Ominous is certainly a fun one (we used it for a rogue with shattered defences once, along with cruel) it's a steep price to pay after fortuitous. She liked the idea of charisma, so we stuck with it. That trait is certainly a way to go though.

Disheartening display I think is the last one we liked. Raise all fear up a step. A wonderful way to say "ok I got you shaken for 2 rounds and nothing else? I can do better"

Lemeres, for my wife there was a huge difference between 5 and 12 int. Skill points. As I mentioned before it's our skull and shackles game. So Intimidate perception swim profession( sailor) climb and Acrobatics were all important to her. So why not gain Skill points and panache while you can? It was what she wanted, so I reccomend the same. A 14 int is an investment but no huge one. A single skill point however would have been.


Gisher wrote:
Krell44 wrote:
So, is there an easy way for A swashbuckler to get DEX to Damage?

Slashing Grace for one-handed slashing weapons

Fencing Grace for rapiers
Starry Grace for starknives

Indeed, noting that while Slashing Grace allows a lot of weapons that would normally be off the cards for the Swashbuckler, the most notable ones are the scimitar/cutlass and the falcata (if one is willing to burn another feat to get the exotic proficiency). The latter being a 1d8 19-20x3 weapon, so great at critting both big and often.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with Swashbucklers having low damage in games. Between Precise Strike, Fencing/Slashing Grace, Weapon Training (which also gives Improved Critical at 5th level), plus the ability to take Fighter feats... they're usually pretty solid. That said, Power Attack is also a convenient way of turning high BAB and attack bonuses into extra damage, so squeezing in the Str 13 is usually worth it (or using Piranha Strike if using 15 point gen).

Example: Human Swashbuckler 5
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata), Weapon Focus (Falcata), Slashing Grace (Falcata), Weapon Specialization (Falcata), Power Attack/Piranha Strike
Gear (10,500gp): +1 Mithral Chain Shirt (2,100), +1 Falcata (2,318), +1 Buckler (1,155), random goodies (4,927)
Stats (20pt): Str 13, Dex 19*, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
*Racial bonus and 4th level adjustment included here.

AC: 22 (4 Dex, 5 Armor, 2 Shield, 1 Dodge)
HP: 37
CMB: +6; CMD: 21
Attack: +12 (+5 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 Weapon Training, +1 Weapon, +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage: 1d8+13 (+4 Dex, +1 Weapon, +1 Weapon Training, +2 Weapon Specialization, +5 Precise Strike)
Critical: 17-20x3 (3d8+29)
With Power Attack: +10 (1d8+17) (17-20 critical, 3d8+41)

So against an APL+0 (AC18) creature, including crits, you're looking at around 17 damage a round without Power Attack, or 18 a round with - so needing an average of 3 rounds to kill an CR=Level creature solo. Also, an AC of 22 gives monsters a 30-45% chance to hit for 15-20 damage, which averages around 7 damage a round - so the monster would need just under 6 rounds to take down the Swashbuckler on average.

Comparing it against a raging barbarian is an iffy thing, because while a swashbuckler can swash and buckle all day long, the barbarian only has so much rage in the tank. That said, applying similar principles to a barbarian (specifically, Invulnerable Rager + Reckless Abandon) would result in:

Stats: Str 18 (+4 in Rage), Dex 14, Con 14, +1 greatsword, +1 Mithral Chain Shirt (best armor in the game) and a ring of protection +1.

Raging: AC14, 58hp, DR2/-. Attack +12 (2d6+16, 19-20x2)
Translating to about 19 damage a round and just under 3 rounds to drop the =Level foe solo. In return the beastie has a 70-85% chance to hit the barbarian for 15-20 damage (minus DR), for an average of 12 damage per round - needing just under 5 rounds to take down the raging barbarian.

Non-Raging: AC18, 48hp, DR2/-. Attack +8 (2d6+13, 19-20x2)
Translating to about 14 damage a round (yes, less than a swashbuckler) for just under 4 rounds to drop the =Level creature solo. In return, the beastie has a 50-65% chance to hit for 15-20 (minus DR) for an average of 10 damage a round - still requiring a bit under 5 rounds to drop the barbarian as he lacks rage hp.

Net result? The above Swashbuckler is punching almost as hard as a raging barbarian and significant harder than a non-raging barbarian, while having a substantially superior AC that only improves with xp/gear. And that's without spending Panache.

TL;DR: Swashbucklers are awesome, and easily one of the most powerful of martial characters.


Gisher wrote:
Krell44 wrote:
So, is there an easy way for A swashbuckler to get DEX to Damage?

Slashing Grace for one-handed slashing weapons

Fencing Grace for rapiers
Starry Grace for starknives

Or you could go with putting Agile on your weapon as well if you go the finesse weapon route since it lets you use dex for weapon damage.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/agile

This lists it as being in the Pathfinder AP #100 but it is also printed in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide pg. 50.


Agile was pretty good for my Halfling Paladin. His strength was 13 so he could use Power Attack, and he wielded a +1 Agile Elven Curved Blade to great effect.


Agile is best used by a class like swashbuckler.

It has been previously looked down upon since 'dex build' often meant 'TWF build'. And obviously, the budget would be too strained to take agile well.

But swashbucklers work with a single weapon, so they are fine with it. It is closer to the keen/improved critical debate.

Grand Lodge

Cavall wrote:
So swift action fear the guy, end of turn spend your immediate to aoe everyone.

Not to ruin your parade, but you cannot do a swift action and an immediate action on the same turn. You can do a swift action on your turn, then an immediate action outside of your turn, but that counts as your swift action for the next turn.

And I would imagine violent display means that at that exact moment you crit, you can use an immediate, not after your turn has ended. The window of opportunity has gone.

But definitely a fear-based swashbuckler seems to work, both for intimidate and damage. I've been trying to pre-cook a swash5/skald15 hybrid to do the same for Way of the Wicked campaign. Pains a little to use four feats for skill unlock + violent display chain, but it might just be worth it, even if enemies that are running away can be a bother.

To augment the build Cavall presented, I'll probably go for the unexpected strike rage power which gives AoPs even if enemies only move to a square you treathen, not away from one. And then maybe a 3rd party archetype for skald called Dread Thane, which makes intimidation and fear more effective, at the cost of what remains as skald's flexibility over from the bard.


Ah but you can, if you hit the guy with an attack of opportunity outside of your turn!

As for during? Hard to say. It's clear you can do it outide your turn but could you swift and then end turn and spend next turns swift action? Maybe you're right.

Either way we can both agree that since the builds made to get 2 attacks per person feared, you're likely to crit and therefore AOE fear.

But let's say you don't crit on your turn. Well then you can always swift action Intimidate. Which could frighten and then lead to a crit then. So... it's a back up plan!

So no real parade rained on! It all worked out.


Well, if raw damage is what you're after, I found that Daring Champion Cavalier gives a lot of the notable Swashbuckler goodies while having a massive damage spike. It takes longer to get Precise Strike going, but you do have Challenge to add into things then, which is where that high damage comes into play.

I apologize for being that guy who suggests an entirely different class, but it should be close enough to Swashbuckler to still count.

Grand Lodge

Cavall wrote:
But let's say you don't crit on your turn. Well then you can always swift action Intimidate. Which could frighten and then lead to a crit then. So... it's a back up plan!

Yeah, it works out all neat if you do it that way around. Also if you use the swordmaster's flair to get some extra reach, you're more likely to get those triggering attacks of opportunity for the immediate action to AoE fear.


Also this:

SRD wrote:
Swashbuckler levels are considered fighter levels for the purpose of meeting combat feat prerequisites.

It means that Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization are on the table and specially Penetrating Strike.

But either Power Attack or Piranha Strike is necessary, though. I myself Precise Strike very often or intentionally provoke attacks of opportunity to Parry/Riposte (generally to also eat away at opponents' opportunity attacks to allow the cleric or wizard to cast his spell/retreat safely).

Variant Multiclassing is also good for that - my Wrath of the Righteous swashbuckler is VMC into Paladin, using Smite Evil for the big fights (always evil, frequently evil outsider). Cavalier would also work.


If you really wanted to make a fear-based Swashbuckler, take a two or three level dip in Thug Rogue. Thug + Violent Display + Disheartening Display. Maybe throw in something like Enforcer or Cornugon Smash. You hit them with a sneak attack, they're either shaken or frightened if you beat the DC enough, then Violent Display triggers, which in turn triggers Disheartening Display. Bam, whole combo from normal to panicked/cowering. Shatter Defenses also keeps it going by helping ensure you land the sneak attacks.

I think Slayers or Vigilantes are the better class for Intimidate builds, but a Swashbuckler can pull it off well enough.

It could look something like:
Half-Orc Inspired Blade:
Traits: Mock Gladiator, maybe Bruising Intellect and dump Charisma.
1:S1: Weapon Focus, Finesse, Fencing Grace
2:R1:
3:R2: Combat Trick: Dazzling Display. Enforcer.
4:R3
5:S2: Power Attack
6:S3:
7:S4: Violent Display, Shatter Defenses
8:S5:
9:S6: Disheartening Display
10:S7
11:S8: Critical Focus, Sickening Critical
12:S9:
13:S10: Sneaking Precision
14:S11
15:S12: Staggering Critical, Bleeding Critical

You can go wherever from there. Basically, in the early levels you're a pretty standard Swashbuckler sort. You get some sneak attack dice, and you're able to demoralize enemies with nonlethal rapier hits at no penalty. You'll get some extra skill points and Evasion, with only one point of BAB loss. Then it all comes online at level 7, when you get to set up the combo. Past that point, you might as well take advantage of your basically guaranteed sneak attack damage and Sneaking Precision to trigger some critical feats with, which are already a solid investment for a high crit weapon like a rapier. You'll be able to throw out panicked, sickened, staggered, all pretty much guaranteed. You'll run into occasional conflicts over swift action usages, but once you're able to AoE apply Shattered Defenses it becomes less of a problem.

The levels are staggered like that so that you get bonus feats at the time you have the BAB to qualify. You could probably rearrange it for more Swashbuckler levels earlier, especially if you went human over half-orc.


Oh that's a very good point, Skiedragon. With a dex of 18 you could get 4 solid atracks (2 at -5) on a single runner. Enough to do the job for certain. Heck, lets say you've got 2 attacks at 13/8 at level 6. You could frighten one person and with reach end up making a 13/13/13/8/8/8 round as they run through 2 squares. Add in your level on each hit, plus weapon enchant and 2 from rapier training and maybe a point or so from attributes. .. 1d6 + 10. 6 attacks. 80 points at level 6 and the target is running.

That's pretty much a hell of a way to say "I'm doing damage". Only gets better.

After all, at level 11 for a panache you can make a single attack a "crit" threat with inspired blade. So, you can off handed make an Intimidate check just because you want to.

Yeah. Swashbuckler rocks.

Grand Lodge

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Cavall wrote:
Heck, lets say you've got 2 attacks at 13/8 at level 6. You could frighten one person and with reach end up making a 13/13/13/8/8/8 round as they run through 2 squares.

I don't know if you calculated attacks of opportunity for each square that the enemy moved through, but you only get one attack of opportunity max per one action that the enemy takes. So even if he moves through two of your threatened squares (with a move action), you only get to make one AoP. Except with fortuitous of course. Two AoPs instead of one for one instance.

Quote: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one (attack of) opportunity for that opponent."

Still, the extra 5ft reach provides a lot more flexibility in threatening. If you're building a swashbuckler/magus, you can get long arm spell from magus list for another extra 5ft reach. AoP machine. Just throwing out some ideas.


Huh I honestly didn't know that. Well 4 attacks for a 2 attack a round character is decent. And able to do it to others.

Thanks again!

Grand Lodge

Finally, in the Weapon Master's Handbook from 2015 there's a very powerful feat called Weapon Trick, where you can get Stylish Riposte for extra AoP attacks for one-handed weapons. This will give your character so many extra AoPs during the career.

"When your AC exceeds the result of a foe's melee attack against you by 5 or more, that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from you. Once you make such an attack of opportunity against a foe, you can't again use this trick against the foe that day."

Note that you must be in light armor or less, and this doesn't work while fighting with two weapons. All you need is a bad roll from the opponent.


Swashbuckler is great. Low saves need a fix but great.
Thug 3 is a great advice.
Daring champion is different, not better. Different. Highter damage , but less shticks.

Lastly, not law-indendent , but is by the rules, fencing grace works with unarmed strikes..

Scarab Sages

Cavall wrote:
Oh that's a very good point, Skiedragon. With a dex of 18 you could get 4 solid atracks (2 at -5) on a single runner.

No you can't. Movement only provokes once no matter how many threatened squares they pass through.


Imbicatus wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Oh that's a very good point, Skiedragon. With a dex of 18 you could get 4 solid atracks (2 at -5) on a single runner.
No you can't. Movement only provokes once no matter how many threatened squares they pass through.

You may have missed the fortuitous weapon enchant that I've brought up several times.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Okay.

That's it.

No more buying materials to get one feat.

Please do not *donate* materials to get one feat, either.

It's not even a money thing.

It's a weight thing.

I need the hard-copy to be able to read it properly, and the books I need to bring with me are currently in the 20-30# range, and that's with the Humble .pdf 'shortcut'.

I'll try to figure out some way that isn't the 'only way' to make my swashbuckler work.

Thanks to everyone who answered my query.

If you can afford a tablet (and I know not everyone can), Good Reader app works great with my poor eyesight. Otherwise, it is possible to just print the watermarked PDF page with the feat on it.

That said, I haven't picked up Piranha Strike for my Swashbuckler either. Why? Because I don't want to buy a book (twice -- once in PDF and once for Herolab) for just one feat. (It's also why I still don't have my favorite reach weapon, the Fauchard, on any of my PFS characters yet.) Now if there are TWO or THREE things that interest me in a book, then I shell out for it.

:)

It's sad that's all that I need for crunch to want to buy something.

Hmm


I'm also not sure if pirhana strike works with rapiers. It seems to require a light weapon. Though maybe there is additional language somewhere that lets finesse weapons count as light for more than just weapon finesse.

Scarab Sages

No piranha strike is light weapons only. It will not work with rapier or other finesse non-light weapons.


Well a recap of last session had the missus panic an entire group of 10 people at once, failing only on someone that was panicked earlier and not able to have it happen again based on the higher dc for retry.

Only one made its save of dc 22. With the remaining people dropping weapons and running, the group cornered them and took them out. Except the barbarian sea trolls. They never even got to act, with her ripping the bodies to shred as they ran. The few remaining were sickened and unarmed, pulling ranged weapons when they got their senses back, which meant little once the group closed ranks.

I'd say this build is a success.

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