Looking for Input on Warlock Vigilante for Hell's Rebels


Advice


So I recently got into a Hell's Rebels game, and it seems the perfect chance to try out a Vigilante. I really like the Warlock archetype thematically, as I've always been a fan of classes that create their own weapons or have infinite magic blasts (like Soulknife and the 3.x Warlock). Unfortunately, the general consensus seems to be that the Warlock is kinda weak.

That said, I think I've managed to come up with a sort of short-range switch hitter Warlock that, while not necessarily 'optimized', isn't entirely awful.

Human (25 point buy)
Str 12, Dex 16+2, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting (Human Bonus)
2: Lethal Grace talent, retrain WF into Point Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Weapon Focus (Starknife)
6: Returning Weapon talent
7: Martial Focus (Starknife)
9: Quick Draw
11: Ricochet Toss, retrain Returning talent for Unexpected Strike talent, retrain redundant Quick Draw for Deadly Aim
12: Arcane Striker talent
13: Ranged Feint
15: ??
17: ??
18: Cunning Feint talent
19: ??
20: ??

The idea here is in the early levels to TWF with a starknife in one hand and a bolt in the other. Lethal Grace means I won't be total garbage in the inevitable melee range. Eventually I'll be able to fling multiple bolts or a starknife plus bolts. Get a Conductive starknife so I can channel my bolt through it. Eventually I'll get Ricochet Toss, letting me get full iteratives with bolt-channeled starknife attacks, which qualify for Deadly Aim. The next level I get Arcane Striker, the same level its improvement kicks in to add specific properties to my weapon.

I basically utilize the bolts as a secondary weapon in the early levels, then turn it into a solid damage boost by channeling it through my real weapon in later levels. The multiple retrains are a bit obnoxious, but somewhat necessary given that I'll actually have to play the character through these levels.

I'm sort of grasping at what to do after that, and the only thing I could think of is the combination of Ranged Feint, Cunning Feint, and the Expose Vitals spell means you're adding a pile of Sneak Attack damage to your souped-up magical starknife thrown attacks.

Thoughts on it overall? It seems like a decent, thematic ranged option, and given that I'll also have partial Wizard casting to fall back on, it's not necessary to have the most competitive damage, just to not suck at it entirely.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I wouldn't say that the warlock archetype as a whole is weak. It's just that the mystic bolts are, relative to the other options the character has. In other words, mystic bolts shouldn't be considered as the primary attack capability (unlike the kineticist's kinetic blast); it's more of a "something magical to do all the time that's better than a cantrip (or even a bloodline/domain/school power, since it can make multiple attacks per round)."

That said, it still makes an adequate back-up to spells and normal weapons. Also, with gloves of arcane striking, you can do a small amount of elemental "splash" damage when using mystic bolts with Arcane Strike.

One other comment: You mention Sneak Attack damage, but the warlock archetype replaces the Vigilante Specialization feature; you can't select stalker to get hidden strike, as well.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

I wouldn't say that the warlock archetype as a whole is weak. It's just that the mystic bolts are, relative to the other options the character has. In other words, mystic bolts shouldn't be considered as the primary attack capability (unlike the kineticist's kinetic blast); it's more of a "something magical to do all the time that's better than a cantrip (or even a bloodline/domain/school power, since it can make multiple attacks per round)."

That said, it still makes an adequate back-up to spells and normal weapons. Also, with gloves of arcane striking, you can do a small amount of elemental "splash" damage when using mystic bolts with Arcane Strike.

One other comment: You mention Sneak Attack damage, but the warlock archetype replaces the Vigilante Specialization feature; you can't select stalker to get hidden strike, as well.

The gloves are an interesting item, and fairly cheap, too, though by the time I actual get Arcane Strike, a few points of splash damage isn't very impressive. Still, damage is damage.

And the Sneak Attack damage would come from the spell Sense Vitals, a second level wizard spell that gives 1d6+1d6/3 caster levels beyond 3rd Sneak Attack damage for 1 round/level.

Scarab Sages

I love the Warlock archetype, and recently did a bit of reading into it, because it looked AWESOME at first, but I've learned that it's just okay.

1) Remember that Lethal Grace only applies to your starknives, not to your mystic bolts. You seemed to have accounted for that, but I just wanted to point it out.

2) You can only use the Conductive property once per round. I had considered it before, and that restriction REALLY put a damper on the idea.

After that, everything seems fine, but those two things really kill warlock damage potential, imo.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure mystic bolts qualify for both Pirahna Strike and Deadly Aim. That should spice things up in the damage department, especially with them being touch attacks past 4th.


1. Yeah, Lethal Grace is just there to help buff melee damage for a low-Strength finesse character in early levels.

2. Good point, though you could easily pick up a pair of conductive weapons to add the boost at least twice a round. Expensive, but might be worth it.

I'm fairly certain that the ruling is that Deadly Aim/Pirahna Strike/Power Attack only apply to mystic bolts if I'm hitting actual AC, since they specifically don't apply on touch attacks. Doable, but as a 3/4 BAB class already eating TWF/Rapid Shot penalties, accuracy is an issue.

It's unfortunate that the archetype locks you out of some of the better combat talents. There would be potential for Warlock builds utilizing stuff like Fist of the Avenger, Mad Rush (pouncing touch attacks), some of the Rogue talents, and of course Signature Weapon.


Looking at the Returning Weapon talent again, would it let you bypass the 1/round limit on Conductive because you apply the magical properties to nonmagic weapons thrown, meaning you could just have one Conductive weapon and a pile of regular ones and get effectively multiple copies of the enchantment?

Liberty's Edge

DethBySquirl wrote:
2. Good point, though you could easily pick up a pair of conductive weapons to add the boost at least twice a round. Expensive, but might be worth it.

A character can only channel into a conductive weapon once a round, no matter how many conductive weapons they have, so this doesn't work either.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
DethBySquirl wrote:
2. Good point, though you could easily pick up a pair of conductive weapons to add the boost at least twice a round. Expensive, but might be worth it.
A character can only channel into a conductive weapon once a round, no matter how many conductive weapons they have, so this doesn't work either.

That's what I get for reading the AoN version of the property rather than the D20PFSRD version. Ah well, it's still solid. Strictly better than the various elemental properties that +1 enhancement could have been.

Silver Crusade

Quote:


Human (25 point buy)
Str 12, Dex 16+2, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting (Human Bonus)
2: Lethal Grace talent, retrain WF into Point Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Weapon Focus (Starknife)
6: Returning Weapon talent
7: Martial Focus (Starknife)
9: Quick Draw
11: Ricochet Toss, retrain Returning talent for Unexpected Strike talent, retrain redundant Quick Draw for Deadly Aim
12: Arcane Striker talent
13: Ranged Feint
15: ??
17: ??
18: Cunning Feint talent
19: ??
20: ??

You can see those pages

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sdkw?Mystic-bolt-and-arcane-strike#1
Logan Bonner (Designer)

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sddd?Warlock-TWF-and-Mystic-Bolt#1
Mark Seifter (Designer)

Both of them said that feat like "Rapid Shot" can't use on Mystic-bolt;and TWF multiple bolts also.

so...I hope the message would't be too late.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Looking for Input on Warlock Vigilante for Hell's Rebels All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.