Bloodvine Strength


Pathfinder Society

Liberty's Edge

I was thumbing through the APG and found Bloodvine Rope as a purchasable alchemical item. I don't see it banned anywhere, so it must be legal, but it seems really silly.

The break DC of the rope is 30. That's the same as an Arcane Locked, Stubborn Nail'd sturdy door. It's harder to break this rope than it is to break down an iron door, bend iron bars, and break down a sturdy door. I'm only asking because PFS tends to trim the fat and leave out things like this. I understand it's alchemically treated, but a DC of 30 is a bit much. Grapple-based characters can really run with this, as the DC to escape is 35.

Finally, if the rope is cut up, what is the new figure for each piece of rope? Is it the same as the whole rope? When is the rope considered "used", besides after is has been burst with a strength check or cut with a slashing weapon?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

It's from the Advanced Class Guide. It's been legal for something like 2 years, now. It's a nice way to detain someone nonlethally for questioning, rather than just murdering them.

Although some table variation will exist, if someone were to intentionally cut the rope I'd probably rule that it gained the broken condition. A sufficiently high enough caster using Mending would be required to repair it.

Breaking it, either via Strength or damage, would "destroy" it. A sufficiently high enough caster using Make Whole would be required to repair it.

In either case the item's condition should probably be noted on that session's Chronicle.

I'm curious about your "trim the fat" comment, though. I don't understand what you meant by it.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Nefreet wrote:
I'm curious about your "trim the fat" comment, though. I don't understand what you meant by it.

He means he thinks this thing is overpowered and the-pfs-powers-that-be usually ban things that are overpowered. At least that was my immediate impression when I read it.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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I have a hard time seeing this item as overpowered given that the other option for subduing a captive:fist applied repeatedly to face, has a DC infinity escape artist check.

Shadow Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I have a hard time seeing this item as overpowered given that the other option for subduing a captive:fist applied repeatedly to face, has a DC infinity escape artist check.

FTFY

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
claudekennilol wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
I'm curious about your "trim the fat" comment, though. I don't understand what you meant by it.
He means he thinks this thing is overpowered and the-pfs-powers-that-be usually ban things that are overpowered.

Ah, well, if that's the case, it would be helpful to know that there is a rigorous QC of all new sources before they become available. It's not perfect, but it's pretty thorough. This is why there is some lag time between a new source being released, and it being added to the Additional Resources Document.

Furthermore, if an item/feat/spell becomes too powerful, Campaign Leadership will often listen to the community. If this rope was abused regularly (I don't know how it could be), then it would be removed as a legal option. Worse case scenario, the Rules Team issues an errata and makes the item undesirable.


CN_Minus wrote:


The break DC of the rope is 30. That's the same as an Arcane Locked, Stubborn Nail'd sturdy door. It's harder to break this rope than it is to break down an iron door, bend iron bars, and break down a sturdy door ... a DC of 30 is a bit much. Grapple-based characters can really run with this, as the DC to escape is 35.

Compare with:

Masterwork Manacles
DC 28 Break
DC 35 Escape Artist
Hardness 10, HP 10
50 gp

Mithril Manacles
DC 30 Break
DC 35 Escape Artist
Hardness 15, HP 30
1000 gp

...and the quickcatch version of each, which can be used in a combat grapple (I can't find the cost increase of this online). Also, the rope's DC 35 escape actually *limits* the utility of this rope for grapple-based characters since the DC is normally 20+CMB when tying someone up.

And I could swear that Arcane Lock used to work on manacles...

So... Overpowered? Probably not. Underpriced? I'd probably say that Mithril Manacles are overpriced.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:
CN_Minus wrote:


The break DC of the rope is 30. That's the same as an Arcane Locked, Stubborn Nail'd sturdy door. It's harder to break this rope than it is to break down an iron door, bend iron bars, and break down a sturdy door ... a DC of 30 is a bit much. Grapple-based characters can really run with this, as the DC to escape is 35.

Compare with:

Masterwork Manacles
DC 28 Break
DC 35 Escape Artist
Hardness 10, HP 10
50 gp

Mithril Manacles
DC 30 Break
DC 35 Escape Artist
Hardness 15, HP 30
1000 gp

...and the quickcatch version of each, which can be used in a combat grapple (I can't find the cost increase of this online). Also, the rope's DC 35 escape actually *limits* the utility of this rope for grapple-based characters since the DC is normally 20+CMB when tying someone up.

And I could swear that Arcane Lock used to work on manacles...

So... Overpowered? Probably not. Underpriced? I'd probably say that Mithril Manacles are overpriced.

To see if mithral manacles are underpriced, you would need to compare the weight of all three items.

The other issue is that manacles must be sized for the creature they are detaining, the rope does not.

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