He's a beastly minotaur, and no chains can bind him.


Advice


I'm working on a character build for a friend for an upcoming campaign, and the core concept of the character is a minotaur barbarian with an emphasis on charging and not having his movement prevented. So he should be good at not being affected by things like paralysis, entanglement, difficult terrain, grappling/pinning, or anything else that would restrain him or hinder his movement in some way.

I will have to work with the DM on designing an appropriate race to reflect the minotaur, but the main thing I'm looking for is ideas on feats, class features, items, etc., that would best reflect the anti-restrained idea. A Ring of Freedom of Movement is kind of the epitome of what I"m talking about, but we are starting at 6th level, so that would be a ways off, and it would be nice if it wasn't item dependent.

Anyone have suggestions on how to ensure the character stays mobile?

Beyond that, the character will be using an axe and should be good at making lots of attacks and dealing lots of damage. Lots of attacks of opportunity would be nice, as well as anything else that can interrupt and punish opponents with attacks. Also, tripping opponents (or otherwise knocking them prone) would also be fitting for the concept of the character, so if there is a good way to fit that into the build as well, that would be good.

I know Barbarian builds are typically fairly straight-forward, but if anyone has ideas for rolling all of these concepts together into one cohesive and effective build, that would be great.


And this guys DM is totally fine with his playing a minotaur?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Maybe it's a Dragonlance campaign. Didn't they come up with a player level minotaur for Krynn.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Check Nimble Moves for some movement into difficult terrain.

The druid's Woodland Stride can help as well, same with the 1st level power of the Travel domain.


If Variant Multiclassing is allowed, you should consider VMC'ing into Cleric for the Liberation 1st level power. If it's not, I'd even recommend going full Warpriest for the Liberation Blessings, which do the exact same thing. You can even take 1-2 levels of Barb for Rage, and with 2 levels, Rage Powers (you can take the Extra Rage Power feat for more).

It sounds like you're planning on rolling up as a legal race, and just re-skinning it as a Minotaur, which I'm a fan of. I'd consider Dwarf, since they can't be slowed by encumbrance, and a +4 bonus to CMD vs. Bullrush and Trip. Their movement is only 20', but with a level in Barb, you're still rocking a 30' move.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are good domain abilities (travel and liberating) that make looking into cleric or inquisitor worthwhile.


The DM is very flexible, and if we can't find an existing race, or come up with a custom homebrew race, that everyone can agree on, then a reskinned/reflavored normal race will likely be the course of action.

However, race isn't an issue; I'm interested in things that have to do with freedom of movement or similar effects. The Liberation domain is a good example, and a good suggestion. Not sure if I'd be able to fit it in, but it's something to keep in mind. I'm not wanting to dilute the build by going with something other than Barbarian, so not sure how useful that domain power will be. The Blessings is also good. Unfortunately both have uses based off of levels in the relevant class, which makes it less of a Barbarian build and more of a Cleric or Warpriest build.


I was thinking more along the lines of Dragon Style for dealing with difficult terrain. Improved Unarmed Strike seems like a waste, but if I fit in some stuff to support tripping, Vicious Stomp wouldn't be a bad feat, would it? Then IUS doesn't seem so bad.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The 1st-level Liberating Command spell is on the Skald list, and Skald blends more with barbarian than other classes at least? In-class, there's Fey Blood which lets you ignore difficult terrain when charging, or Eater of Magic to negate spells. Barbarians don't have much going for them on the "Freedom of Movement" front, so I'd want to be more focused on negating effects in the first place.


Wouldn't Bloodrager also get me access to Liberating Command, and be closer to a true Barbarian than Skald?


I think a minotaur should have a Gore attack. Whether the DM is willing to let you have that as a trait (like a half-orc's racial Bite attack but with a Gore instead) or makes you take Lesser Fiend Totem you should be able to Gore by 6th level.

The best charging power is Greater Beast Totem, which gives you Pounce. The AC boost from Beast Totem isn't bad either. The Claws would actually detract some damage from any Gore attack the Minotaur might gain though (though it wouldn't matter much when used along with weapons). I guess if the DM is super flexible maybe you could modify Beast Totem into Bull Totem and get a Gore instead of Claws from Lesser "Bull" Totem. If the PC has a "racial" Gore maybe this could just up the damage to something respectable (half-orc Bite doesn't do much)

The desire for attacks of opportunity makes me think you'd be interested in Come and Get Me (or Taunting Stance if the DM would prefer Unchained)

With Cuup's Variant Multiclassing idea you'd get the Liberation power without giving up any Barbarian levels. You'd just have to give up half your feats. If you feel like you need feats really baldy you could consider a Viking archetype Fighter, but that would delay Come and Get Me from level 12 until 16. Here's an idea for a minotaur Barbarian / VMC Cleric with a bardiche, which is basically a really big axe with reach. If anybody got inside the reach he could simply Gore them (you could use any reach weapon - the bardiche just fits the "axe" theme)

1-Combat Reflexes 3-VMC 5-Power Attack 7-VMC 9-Cornugon Smash 11-VMC 13-Hurtful

If Cornugon Smash for debuffs and an extra attack doesn't appeal to you then I guess you could get Lunge or some other feats entirely. Threatening AoOs on both adjacent squares and 10' away should be great for Come and Get Me. I guess the drawback might be that you couldn't use your Gore along with your bardiche on Pounce. Lunge would potentially fix that, but it would also let you stop 15 feet away from a Medium foe, full attack, and then get an AoO if the enemy tries to close for melee.

I wonder if a Primalist Bloodrager who can grow to Large size might not work really well for this sort of PC. Move freely and prevent others from doing so...hmm...


Crossblooded Bloodrager, with Aberrant/Abyssal wouldn't be bad. Toss in core rage powers from Primalist, and maybe Steelblooded to top off AC.

Lantern Lodge

Maybe the The Flexing Arm trait? It allows you to use Str in place of Dex for Escape Artist checks (which you can put ranks in).

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ wrote:

The Flexing Arm

Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 220 (Amazon), Faiths of Purity pg. 18 (Amazon)
Requirement(s) Kurgess
You are practiced at using physical might to escape your bonds. You can use Strength instead of Dexterity as your base ability for Escape Artist skill checks to free yourself from bondage. Additionally, you gain a +1 trait bonus on such Escape Artist checks.

Liberty's Edge

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Might I suggest checking out the Advanced Races Compendium, from Kobold Press? It has a ton of interesting yet balanced PC races - each new race gets an entire chapter, and once of those PC races is Minotaur.


So far as race building... Midgard has a decent playable minotaur PC race, although the incredible overvaluing of strength in the point system makes the -4 dex and -4 cha too much.

Possibly, look into the Skinwalker abilities (notably the boar who gets a gore which could be subbed for a bull, and they can be in hybrid form all the time).

So far as class.

A Primalist/spelleater Bloodrager.

I personally like the Arcane bloodline, as it makes it harder to cast around you and gives you disruptive and spellbreaker without being a fighter, and extra AoO's specifically for casting.

Also, free blur, haste, displacement, prot arrows, or resist energy for each specific fight are amazing.

Then, you can self-heal with spellslots, if you want to not really be a "caster", but more that you are incredibly tough and resilient, as your magic is really just more hitpoints.


I think Dragon Style is worth it, particularly if you're going the natural attacker route.

Grab Feral Combat Training (?), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Dragon Ferocity (yeah, 4-5 Feats is a bit of a tall order, but not TOO exorbitant, really) and you can have a neat attack sequence of Punch/Punch/Punch/Gore or something by around 8th.

Particularly if you play a class other than Barbarian. Brawler also fits the image well (sans Axe), and lets you do stuff like Martial Flex into Improved Grapple and such in a pinch.

Or, if you want a Rage-like mechanic, the Mutation Warrior's Mutagen gives comparable bonuses to stats as Rage does. +2 hit/damage, +2 AC, -2 Int vs +2 hit/damage, -2 AC, +2 Will saves. The main differences are that Mutagen lasts longer, and Rage scales better.

Paizo Employee Designer

When I first saw this thread title, I thought it was going to be about Jason (Bulmahn=Bull-man and his 3pp is Minotaur Games) and Pathfinder Unchained. :D


The original character concept was for 4E D&D and was based off an Onion News Network video: link.


The closest race I can think of would be a skinwalker, likely the ragebred, which is boars technically, but could easily be skinned as a bull. And with +str and con the racials are right where you want them. Getting something like powerful charge would suit the theme as well, maybe the DM would allow it as a feat, if so impaling charge could be good as well.

Feather step slippers used to do what you want, now they're only 10 minutes, but at 2k that's not the worst item to get you started. Minotaur belt seems like the most obvious item, but comes in at 11k, so might be a bit delayed.

Since people are suggesting other classes, might as well throw in Druid with the rage domain through the (blight?) archetype. Or do VMC to get rage with what ever class you want.

If you're planning on tripping you might want stuff like vicious stomp, which I think was mentioned above.


I think what I've decided on is a Skinwalker (boar-kin) Barbarian (with maybe a 1 level dip into Brawler with the Mutagenic Mauler archetype). There is a 3rd party archetype for the Barbarian that replaces Rage (and Greater and Mighty) with Mutagen (and Greater, Grand, and True), but you still get Rage Powers (which take effect during a Mutagen instead of during a Rage) as well as access to Discoveries to alter your mutagen. It can also stack with Invulnerable Rager. I think I've also decided to ditch the axe and go for a natural attack build.

With that in mind, here are some of the options I'm looking at:

Traits: Armor Expert, Axe to Grind, Enduring Mutagen, Reactionary, and/or Vengeful. We start with 2, and can take a drawback for a third one. And of course, could take Additional Traits for 2 more.

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Power Attack, Dragon Style, Extra Features, Endurance, Diehard, Stalwart, Improved Stalwart

Rage Powers: Lesser Beast Totem, Beast Totem, Greater Beast Totem, CAGM, Reckless Abandon

Discoveries: Feral Mutagen, Infuse Mutagen, Spontaneous Healing

I'm considering dipping Brawler to handle the IUS and the 13 Int requirement for Combat Expertise. If you have exactly 13 Int and you activate a strength Mutagen (taking -2 Int) do you lose Combat Expertise as well as all feats that require it, until your Int comes back up?


We are starting at 6th level, and likely won't go past 11th, so I don't think the Vicious Stomp->Combat Expertise->Improved Trip->Greater Trip or the Endurance->Diehard->Stalwart->Improved Stalwart chains are going to happen.

That leaves Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Dragon Style, and Extra Features, 3 of which I can start with (or 4 with a dip in Brawler). Is Power Attack as important for a natural attack build?

Also, trying to combine Axe to Grind and Vengeful seems wasteful since they don't stack (only open more possibilities for applying the +1 trait bonus to damage). Also, if the mutagen currently lasts 60 minutes, I'm not sure if Enduring Mutagen is worth it for 6 more minutes. So that boils it down to Armor Expert, Reactionary and either Axe to Grind or vengeful (I'm thinking Vengeful). All 3 of which he can start with, with a drawback.

For rage powers and/or discoveries, he will start with 3 (or 2 if dip) and gain 2 more (or 3 if dip) for a total of 5. CAGM has level limit of 12, so that won't even likely be possible. Greater beast totem might not even happen until the campaign is almost over. I'm thinking no dip, and start with lesser beast totem, feral mutagen, and reckless abandon, then pick up beast totem and greater beast totem if it gets that far.


A penalty doesn't generally cause you to lose the prereq for a feat. For instance, wildshaping into something with -2 Dex wouldn't stop you from using feats with Dex 13 as a prereq.

The build you're considering seems more into tripping and natural attacks than I might have expected. I'm a big fan of Vicious Stomp, but I'll suggest that it goes really well with Enforcer, and those two combined go really well with Hurtful.

I'm not sure if you'd consider it worthwhile taking 2 levels of Brawler to bulk up your feats, but Enforcer+Hurtful has helped one of my PCs achieve kind of a "mini-Pounce" with two attacks after a Move (or on a Charge) since low levels. The fact Vicious Stomp triggers Enforcer and Hurtful makes this work even better if the foe can be tripped.


The tripping was just for the extra attack from Greater Trip (and Vicious Stomp); not really interested in it beyond that. I was originally wanting it to be a normal weapon build, but decided to go natural attack instead. I will have to discuss this with the player and make sure it still fits what he had envisioned for the character.


When tripping works it is absolutely fantastic though since it debuffs both enemy AC and attacks. If you just want an extra attack then I'd guess more foes are vulnerable to demoralize (and therefore Hurtful) than are vulnerable to trip though, especially at higher levels where a lot of things fly. Obviously that could vary by campaign though.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Devilkiller wrote:

A penalty doesn't generally cause you to lose the prereq for a feat. For instance, wildshaping into something with -2 Dex wouldn't stop you from using feats with Dex 13 as a prereq.

Actually, it would. If something prevents you from meeting the prereqs, you don't gain the benefit

PRD wrote:


Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.


Penalties to an ability score work like damage to that ability score except that they can't lower the score below 1. Damage to an ability score doesn't actually lower the score the way drain does, so you still have a 13 Int, you just have a -1 on Int based rolls compared to what you'd usually have. At least that's the way I understand it, and I looked into this pretty closely back when I had a Druid with wildshape and Improved Grapple. A more typical example would be if you have an 18 Str and get shot with Ray of Enfeeblement for a -6 Str penalty you can still use Power Attack.

I'm not 100% sure if a penalty which persists for 24 hours would actually affect the ability score the way a bonus which persists for 24 hours does, but that wouldn't really come up here with a duration of 10 minutes per level.


captain yesterday wrote:
Maybe it's a Dragonlance campaign. Didn't they come up with a player level minotaur for Krynn.

Yes the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book has a Minotaur race. They are a bit more focused on being Sailors though (race ability wise). The Advanced Race Compendium's Minotaur might be better suited.


Varalash wrote:

Feather step slippers used to do what you want, now they're only 10 minutes, but at 2k that's not the worst item to get you started. Minotaur belt seems like the most obvious item, but comes in at 11k, so might be a bit delayed.

Since people are suggesting other classes, might as well throw in Druid with the rage domain through the (blight?) archetype. Or do VMC to get rage with what ever class you want.

If you're planning on tripping you might want stuff like vicious stomp, which I think was mentioned above.

Why do you think Feather step slippers only last 10 minutes? I am pretty sure they are continuous items, and if not, then they would be standard activated for 30 minutes due to being CL3.

For mobility, if you jump over stuff, you can avoid some problems like pits and such. Ninja 2 gets ki, and if you have any, you are considered to have a 10' running start as far as jumping DC goes. Add in an Akitonian Blade, and you triple jump distance for just over 8K. Replace the bill with an axe, and away you go.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Cevah wrote:
Varalash wrote:

Feather step slippers used to do what you want, now they're only 10 minutes, but at 2k that's not the worst item to get you started. Minotaur belt seems like the most obvious item, but comes in at 11k, so might be a bit delayed.

Since people are suggesting other classes, might as well throw in Druid with the rage domain through the (blight?) archetype. Or do VMC to get rage with what ever class you want.

If you're planning on tripping you might want stuff like vicious stomp, which I think was mentioned above.

Why do you think Feather step slippers only last 10 minutes? I am pretty sure they are continuous items, and if not, then they would be standard activated for 30 minutes due to being CL3.

For mobility, if you jump over stuff, you can avoid some problems like pits and such. Ninja 2 gets ki, and if you have any, you are considered to have a 10' running start as far as jumping DC goes. Add in an Akitonian Blade, and you triple jump distance for just over 8K. Replace the bill with an axe, and away you go.

/cevah

It's because of the new errata. It was changed from an continuous item to 10min/day.


the Diviner wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Varalash wrote:

Feather step slippers used to do what you want, now they're only 10 minutes, but at 2k that's not the worst item to get you started. Minotaur belt seems like the most obvious item, but comes in at 11k, so might be a bit delayed.

Since people are suggesting other classes, might as well throw in Druid with the rage domain through the (blight?) archetype. Or do VMC to get rage with what ever class you want.

If you're planning on tripping you might want stuff like vicious stomp, which I think was mentioned above.

Why do you think Feather step slippers only last 10 minutes? I am pretty sure they are continuous items, and if not, then they would be standard activated for 30 minutes due to being CL3.

For mobility, if you jump over stuff, you can avoid some problems like pits and such. Ninja 2 gets ki, and if you have any, you are considered to have a 10' running start as far as jumping DC goes. Add in an Akitonian Blade, and you triple jump distance for just over 8K. Replace the bill with an axe, and away you go.

/cevah

It's because of the new errata. It was changed from an continuous item to 10min/day.

The errata was for activated items (e.g. Ring of Invisibility).

Feather Step Slippers are not an activated item.


Can someone quote/link the errata?

/cevah


Devilkiller wrote:

{. . .}

With Cuup's Variant Multiclassing idea you'd get the Liberation power without giving up any Barbarian levels. You'd just have to give up half your feats. If you feel like you need feats really baldy you could consider a Viking archetype Fighter, but that would delay Come and Get Me from level 12 until 16. {. . .}

That's the problem with VMC if you are going martial -- unless you go some kind of Fighter or other thing with a good number of Bonus Feats, you will lose your hair over feat starvation.

While we're on VMC, I was just going to think of a more shamanic (concept, not the ACG class) build using Cleric with the Liberation Domain and the Rage Domain (or Anger Inquisition) VMC (or dip) Oracle and then going into the Rage Prophet prestige class, but it takes too long to get online. (Although a more conventional Barbarian/Oracle Rage Prophet build would get online in time for you, but suffers from getting no additional rounds of Rage or Rage Powers during prestige class progression. See this guide if you're interested anyway.


I will say, Fey Blood is worth checking out. Plus, fairy princess minotaur barbarian. (In all seriousness though, fey blood gets good bonuses for what you want)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Cevah wrote:

Can someone quote/link the errata?

/cevah

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/resources under Ultimate equipment.

And here is the relevant text:

Page 231—In feather step slippers, in the first
sentence, change “These” to “Once per day for 10
minutes, these”.

Grand Lodge

I can recommend this product from Rite Publisher Minotaur Book.

A friend of mine played a Minotaur Fighter for Rise of the Runelords and all the party didn't feel that was unbalanced.

Among other things they gain +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, -2 Dex.
Medium size, 30 ft speed, Darkvision, a horn attack of 1d4 damage, and more stuff that i don't remember right now


the Diviner wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Can someone quote/link the errata?

/cevah

link under Ultimate equipment.

And here is the relevant text:

Page 231—In feather step slippers, in the first
sentence, change “These” to “Once per day for 10
minutes, these”.

Linkified.

That is odd. The spell is 10 minutes per level, and the CL of the boots is CL 3.

As higher CL only adds more time, there is no reason to make it CL 3 instead of CL 1. Even so, 1/day 1st level spell @ 3rd level for 1/3 the allotted time should be 400 gp by the formula. Yet they leave the price at 2000 gp. That is 5 times the formula price. Are they that good?

Sounds like another nerf to me.

/cevah


@UnArcaneElection - I guess with my typo the Viking archetype would be even better since it could probably make the PC grow a big beard. Folks were joking that my Viking PC probably has illegitimate children throughout the realms and the boys grow big orange beards when they're just babies.

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