paizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....paizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....2016-06-16T20:52:00Z2016-06-16T20:52:00ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....2097https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#462016-06-19T07:30:00Z2016-06-19T07:30:00Z<p>I was thinking the other day and I don't know how true this is, but this was my thinking:
<br />
OP is about Forgotten Realms vs Golarion with a significant network externality cost for switching over in either direction.
<br />
Home play is about 5e rules vs Pathfinder rules with a small (but existent) network externality cost for switching over in either direction.</p>I was thinking the other day and I don't know how true this is, but this was my thinking:
OP is about Forgotten Realms vs Golarion with a significant network externality cost for switching over in either direction.
Home play is about 5e rules vs Pathfinder rules with a small (but existent) network externality cost for switching over in either direction.20972016-06-19T07:30:00ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....AdrastusDarkehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#452016-06-18T09:31:18Z2016-06-18T09:31:18Z<p>Organised play is a somewhat flawed way at looking at how popular a game is, pathfinder has significantly more emphasis on organised play than 5e and has had time to build up a larger community in it's organised play events so naturally pathfinder is going to appear more popular when you only look at organised play.</p>
<p>The majority of games are home games so home games would be the ideal metric to measure popularity by. Unfortunately it is also really difficult to measure how many home games of each game are taking place as opposed to counting tables at conventions which is relatively easy. I have seen more 5e home games recently than pathfinder but bear in mind that I play significantly more 5e than pathfinder so that may just be the circles that I run in. In terms of organised play (while I do not participate in any organized play I do see it in various game stores from time to time) I see both 5e and pathfinder in close to equal amounts, in cambridgeshire it's mostly 5e but I see abit more pathfinder elsewhere.</p>
<p>It is important to note that there is more than enough room for both and many people will play both games.</p>
<p>Adrastus</p>Organised play is a somewhat flawed way at looking at how popular a game is, pathfinder has significantly more emphasis on organised play than 5e and has had time to build up a larger community in it's organised play events so naturally pathfinder is going to appear more popular when you only look at organised play.
The majority of games are home games so home games would be the ideal metric to measure popularity by. Unfortunately it is also really difficult to measure how many home games of...AdrastusDarke2016-06-18T09:31:18ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....2097https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#442016-06-18T08:59:52Z2016-06-18T08:59:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Angel Gabriel wrote:</div><blockquote>We remain good friends with D&D5e. Generally we think the competition is healthy and keeps us on our toes. It is also a great recruitment field for players who would like a more tactical games with more choices for their characters. </blockquote><p>Yes, I think this is good. 5e and Pathfinder can work together, learn from each other and just be awesome.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>I bolded with part where i have a problem with. </blockquote><p>It's certainly different from what I understand from traditional D&D. I switched to 5e from games like Fate (with the aspects) and Burning Wheel (with the wises) so for me it's a continuation or refinement, even improvement on that. I appreciate having a simple, consistent, mechanical reward for various engagement with the elements in the scene.
<p>But I can see that it's a facet of the game that has its issues, too. It's something I overall like and appreciate, though.</p>Angel Gabriel wrote:We remain good friends with D&D5e. Generally we think the competition is healthy and keeps us on our toes. It is also a great recruitment field for players who would like a more tactical games with more choices for their characters.
Yes, I think this is good. 5e and Pathfinder can work together, learn from each other and just be awesome. shadowkras wrote:I bolded with part where i have a problem with.
It's certainly different from what I understand from traditional D&D....20972016-06-18T08:59:52ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Das Bierhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#432016-06-17T23:32:48Z2016-06-17T17:34:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Grey Lensman wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kalshane wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>But what if there are many opponents?</blockquote><p>Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
</p>
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
<br />
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are finishing off their enemy so you avoid their flanking advantage.</blockquote><p>This is pretty much the same as every other version of D&D/PF. Focus-fire is far more effective than spreading out your attacks because of the way HPs work. It's hardly unique to 5E.
<p></blockquote>Focus fire has been a part of how my group played D&D as far back as 1st edition, and it's how we play pretty much every game that doesn't take enemies from full to down in one hit - no matter the system. "Dead Men Make No To-Hit Rolls" has long been a maxim. </blockquote><p>"Concentrate all firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"
<p>See, even Mon Calamari know that in a boss fight, you take out the boss.</p>Grey Lensman wrote:Kalshane wrote: shadowkras wrote:
Quote:But what if there are many opponents?
Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense"...Das Bier2016-06-17T17:34:51ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....shadowkrashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#422016-06-17T17:26:39Z2016-06-17T17:26:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>"I jump over the table and attack down on them with my spear!<b> Do I get advantage?</b>"</blockquote><p>I bolded with part where i have a problem with.Quote:"I jump over the table and attack down on them with my spear! Do I get advantage?"
I bolded with part where i have a problem with.shadowkras2016-06-17T17:26:39ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Darrell Impey UKhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#412016-06-17T17:20:34Z2016-06-17T17:20:34Z<p>You're certainly right about how little Pathfinder there was in the trade hall boss. :(</p>You're certainly right about how little Pathfinder there was in the trade hall boss. :(Darrell Impey UK2016-06-17T17:20:34ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Angel Gabrielhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#402016-06-17T08:51:25Z2016-06-17T08:51:25Z<p>We ran the Pathfinder hall at UK Games Expo and it was a good barometer of the Pathfinder / D&D 5E state of play. We have far more Pathfinder games running at conventions than 5E but they are growing in number especially where they run a Special. They ran one at UK Games Expo and it sold out almost immediately. We have a very good VO Team in the UK and I think we do a good job of organising our players and making it very easy for them to sit down and play Pathfinder. We also make a point of making friends with the sign-up desk and recruiting new players directly. This year Richard Pett gave us his "Taste of the Blight" to run and that set us even with the D&D Special. We had the extra attraction of Ben Loomes Syrinscape sound effects.</p>
<p>But D&D5E is certainly growing in the UK. It is such a strong brand and all the mums and dads know the name and buy it for their kids. Pathfinder only has word-of-mouth publicity. "Strahd" is also a strong selling point for old timers of D&D. Wizards of the Coast are considering a big splash here in the UK next year at UK Games Expo. This year Paizo didn't have a single logo credit on site, or on website. Their two stockists had brought very little Pathfinder product.</p>
<p>We remain good friends with D&D5e. Generally we think the competition is healthy and keeps us on our toes. It is also a great recruitment field for players who would like a more tactical games with more choices for their characters.</p>We ran the Pathfinder hall at UK Games Expo and it was a good barometer of the Pathfinder / D&D 5E state of play. We have far more Pathfinder games running at conventions than 5E but they are growing in number especially where they run a Special. They ran one at UK Games Expo and it sold out almost immediately. We have a very good VO Team in the UK and I think we do a good job of organising our players and making it very easy for them to sit down and play Pathfinder. We also make a point of...Angel Gabriel2016-06-17T08:51:25ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....2097https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#392016-06-17T08:04:37Z2016-06-17T08:04:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage.</blockquote>I was actually talking about "roleplaying" our characters in order to obtain inspiration at the start of the game, or before the end of the previous game, so we can have a free "reroll card" during situations where it matters (like avoiding being petrified). Maybe i just wasnt clear, but an advantage isn't much different than a reroll, you just have to announce it before the check.</blockquote><p>OK, then I misunderstood. I think the "announce it before the check" part is huge.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>The inspiration rule can be resumed to: if you roleplay, you get free advantages.</blockquote><p>Yeah, if you engage with the elements in the shared imagined space, or your own characters traits, that's the way to get advantages.
</p>
You can do it in the scene "I jump over the table and attack down on them with my spear! Do I get advantage?" or you can do it in another scene before hand by playing to your traits to get inspiration. I like it, I think it's a good mix of engaging with scene elements and engaging with decisions on a larger scale.
<br />
It's similar to Fate how there are aspects in the scene you can invoke along with aspects of your character.
<br />
I usually like that it doesn't scale because it still makes the dice matter and it is relaxing, once you've found advantage you can stop looking if you want to.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>It's a rule noneless, its in the book. After a bunch of combats attempting to use it, we decided to drop it because it was way too ridiculous to obtain advantage with it.</blockquote><p>Yeah, it's not a very good rule. It sucks that it makes all other forms of advantage meaningless. But... the heading for it is "Optional Rule: Flanking".
<p>I agree that the rules that make it too easy or mechanical to get advantage (the spell Faerie Fire comes to close to this also) are threatening the dynamic of the rest of the advantage/disadvantage system.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Sometimes we felt actually being dragged down by our ideals and flaws.</blockquote><p>That can be a good feeling, though; to feel like your characters personality has a very big impact on their outlook and their life decisions.
</p>
But, I do like that unlike Fate, it's optional to fish for insp. (In Fate, if you decline a moment of insp fishing you have to pay.)</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Nearly all my PF games have a sandboxy feel, the ultimate campaign is always at the table and we use all the rules if the players are up to it, and their characters arent running against the clock. </blockquote><p>Sounds like my kind of table!
</p>
I agree that you've found some of the weak spots of 5e. It's still my favorite game though :D</p>shadowkras wrote:Quote:That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage.
I was actually talking about "roleplaying" our characters in order to obtain inspiration at the start of the game, or before the end of the previous game, so we can have a free "reroll card" during situations where it matters (like avoiding being petrified). Maybe i just wasnt clear, but an advantage isn't much different than a reroll, you just have to announce...20972016-06-17T08:04:37ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Grey Lensmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#382016-06-16T22:06:46Z2016-06-16T22:06:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kalshane wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>But what if there are many opponents?</blockquote><p>Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
</p>
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
<br />
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are finishing off their enemy so you avoid their flanking advantage.</blockquote><p>This is pretty much the same as every other version of D&D/PF. Focus-fire is far more effective than spreading out your attacks because of the way HPs work. It's hardly unique to 5E.
<p></blockquote><p>Focus fire has been a part of how my group played D&D as far back as 1st edition, and it's how we play pretty much every game that doesn't take enemies from full to down in one hit - no matter the system. "Dead Men Make No To-Hit Rolls" has long been a maxim.Kalshane wrote:shadowkras wrote:
Quote:But what if there are many opponents?
Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are...Grey Lensman2016-06-16T22:06:46ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Kalshanehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#372016-06-16T20:53:48Z2016-06-16T20:53:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>But what if there are many opponents?</blockquote><p>Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
</p>
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
<br />
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are finishing off their enemy so you avoid their flanking advantage.</blockquote><p>This is pretty much the same as every other version of D&D/PF. Focus-fire is far more effective than spreading out your attacks because of the way HPs work. It's hardly unique to 5E.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Flanking is an optional rule.</blockquote><p>It's a rule noneless, its in the book. After a bunch of combats attempting to use it, we decided to drop it because it was way too ridiculous to obtain advantage with it.
</p>
Even in pathfinder, we never use all the rules, sometimes a rule is simply discarded in favor of gameplay, or their severity is toned down (carrying capacity, living costs, travel times, etc). But those rules are still in the books, calling it a "variant rule" doesn't change the fact that they are part of the rules system. </blockquote><p>There's a bunch of optional rules, such as flanking, in the DMG (many of them mutually-exclusive). Saying that they're in the book and therefore the entire system should be judged based on their existence is rather unfair. The optional rules in the DMG are there as sort of "official" house rules, to give the DM opportunity to tweak the game how he wants. Using them changes the way the game plays, which may or not improve it, from the point of view of the players.shadowkras wrote:Quote:But what if there are many opponents?
Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are finishing off...Kalshane2016-06-16T20:53:48ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....shadowkrashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#362016-06-16T18:18:31Z2016-06-16T17:33:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage.</blockquote><p>I was actually talking about "roleplaying" our characters in order to obtain inspiration at the start of the game, or before the end of the previous game, so we can have a free "reroll card" during situations where it matters (like avoiding being petrified). Maybe i just wasnt clear, but an advantage isn't much different than a reroll, you just have to announce it before the check.
<p>The inspiration rule can be resumed to: if you roleplay, you get free advantages.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>But what if there are many opponents?</blockquote><p>Yes, the GM realized that and started to drop a dozen of opponents at once, which regularly was overboard or dragged the session for too long without necessarily improving the game.
</p>
Even when we were outnumbered, it was a better option to attempt to go 2 on 1 (sometimes 3 on 1) than each one handle an enemy.
<br />
Even if we were outnumbered in those situations, its better to declare "full defense" while the others are finishing off their enemy so you avoid their flanking advantage.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Flanking is an optional rule.</blockquote><p>It's a rule noneless, its in the book. After a bunch of combats attempting to use it, we decided to drop it because it was way too ridiculous to obtain advantage with it.
</p>
Even in pathfinder, we never use all the rules, sometimes a rule is simply discarded in favor of gameplay, or their severity is toned down (carrying capacity, living costs, travel times, etc). But those rules are still in the books, calling it a "variant rule" doesn't change the fact that they are part of the rules system. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote> To me this is the core and the best part of 5e,</blockquote><p>You are correct and i share the same opinion. Backgrounds are the best part of 5ed (it just doesn't mean that 5e is a great game system because of that). I make my PF players roll or create their backgrounds using the ultimate campaign rules every time and we get a similar feeling to our characters.
</p>
The ideal, bond and flaw, are, as you said, tools for inspiration-fishing. We could do all that without an actual rule for it.
<br />
Sometimes we felt actually being dragged down by our ideals and flaws.</p>
<p>5e does have it's merit, it is a suitable replacement for 3.x and 4.x, but overall the game system didn't work that well. We had to read the devs twitter's account a dozen of times when the rules were vague or contradictory, and that's a valid and reliable source of information about the system. Sometimes those tweets werent even explaining how something works, but simply saying "no, that rule isnt good, try this new one instead".</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Also there's something else that I love about 5e; it's easy to find a sandboxy culture of players around it rather than path-focused. (Think "Kingmaker" style gameplay, only all the time.)</blockquote><p>Nearly all my PF games have a sandboxy feel, the ultimate campaign is always at the table and we use all the rules if the players are up to it, and their characters arent running against the clock.Quote:That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage.
I was actually talking about "roleplaying" our characters in order to obtain inspiration at the start of the game, or before the end of the previous game, so we can have a free "reroll card" during situations where it matters (like avoiding being petrified). Maybe i just wasnt clear, but an advantage isn't much different than a reroll, you just have to announce it before the...shadowkras2016-06-16T17:33:50ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Chris Lambertzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#352016-06-16T18:16:58Z2016-06-16T17:08:49Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a series of posts. Folks, using the phrase "Paizo Defense Force" is ultimately unhelpful and divisive. Please refrain from using it on our site.</span></p>Removed a series of posts. Folks, using the phrase "Paizo Defense Force" is ultimately unhelpful and divisive. Please refrain from using it on our site.Chris Lambertz2016-06-16T17:08:49ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....2097https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#342016-06-16T08:40:15Z2016-06-16T08:40:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Inspiration? Becomes a tool to obtain rerolls.</blockquote><p>That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Simple mechanics on advantage/disvantage? Combats focused on causing disvantage or obtaining advantage otherwise you are screwed.</blockquote><p>I still find it fun after two years to come up with creative or new ways to get advantage; and you also have the inspiration as an alternative route.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>People will focus on tripping opponents or causing stuns so everyone can dogpile an enemy and drop it faster.</blockquote><p>But what if there are many opponents?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Even flanking becomes bothersome to everyone at the table.</blockquote><p>Flanking is an optional rule.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>Personality? Its a tool to obtain more bonuses on skills that your class fails to grant you. Also extra gear at char creation.</blockquote><p>And one exploration feature, two traits, an ideal, a bond and a flaw. Those traits and flaws can be very fun to play out, to go insp-fishing. Well, I still like it, a lot. To me this is the core and the best part of 5e, the one thing that drives play the most.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote><p>As for simplicity, there is nothing simple if rules constantly contradict themselves (PHB vs DMG) and cause arguments at the table. Examples: How to make potions and magic items. Or how tracking works. The enemy is being flanked, grappled, tied up, cursed, but somehow has an advantage, nope, all cancelled and you must roll normally.</p>
<p>5e resolves itself around how many house rules will you make to better suit your table and your friends's playstyle.</p>
<p>Thats not a rule system, its a guide to make up your own rules.
<br />
I could do that without a new rpg book.</p>
<p>It isnt all bad, new players will love it, veterans will feel nolstagic, but it is far from being a solid game system.</blockquote><p>All of this, the rest of the post, here there is a lot of merit and I agree with it. These are some of the problems with 5e. But the first part, well, that hasn't been my experience at all and I suspect there's some house rules in play (rerolls? flanking?).
<p>Also there's something else that I love about 5e; it's easy to find a sandboxy culture of players around it rather than path-focused. (Think "Kingmaker" style gameplay, only all the time.)</p>shadowkras wrote:Inspiration? Becomes a tool to obtain rerolls.
That's a variant rule, the default rule is that you can spend inspiration before the roll to get advantage. shadowkras wrote:Simple mechanics on advantage/disvantage? Combats focused on causing disvantage or obtaining advantage otherwise you are screwed.
I still find it fun after two years to come up with creative or new ways to get advantage; and you also have the inspiration as an alternative route. shadowkras wrote:People...20972016-06-16T08:40:15ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....NenkotaMoonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#332016-06-16T04:01:04Z2016-06-16T03:55:16Z<p>We get bursts of 5E (DnD light). Here and there our table will grow from 4 plus GM to 6 or at worse 8, catching the GM off guard. Next night, back to 4. Goes on like that till it happens again a month or two later. We keep thinking well get a second table, but it never happens.</p>
<p>PFS, a roster of around 6 to 8 whom come up in and out ever other weekend generally. We usually always have 4 players plus GM. Any noobs whom come in tend to stay and frequent the place. </p>
<p>Be at mind, pretty much the same four whom are a constant presence in DnD 5E, are also in PFS. We don't really care, we just play games. I like Pathfinder better overall however.</p>We get bursts of 5E (DnD light). Here and there our table will grow from 4 plus GM to 6 or at worse 8, catching the GM off guard. Next night, back to 4. Goes on like that till it happens again a month or two later. We keep thinking well get a second table, but it never happens.
PFS, a roster of around 6 to 8 whom come up in and out ever other weekend generally. We usually always have 4 players plus GM. Any noobs whom come in tend to stay and frequent the place.
Be at mind, pretty much the...NenkotaMoon2016-06-16T03:55:16ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....SmiloDan (RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#322016-09-10T08:30:43Z2016-06-16T03:24:20Z<p>I've found 5th Edition is more fun at the table, and PF is more fun during downtime.</p>
<p>As it stands, there isn't a lot of theorycrafting in 5Ed. I get to game about once a month, so we play 5Ed, which is great since it's so elegant. But the other 29 days of the month, I have to get my gaming jollies by theorycrafting. And there's just so much more moving parts with PF to think about. It can be a bit overwhelming, since there are now literally hundreds of feats and traits, thousands of spells, dozens of classes and races, and hundreds of archetypes and racial variants.</p>I've found 5th Edition is more fun at the table, and PF is more fun during downtime.
As it stands, there isn't a lot of theorycrafting in 5Ed. I get to game about once a month, so we play 5Ed, which is great since it's so elegant. But the other 29 days of the month, I have to get my gaming jollies by theorycrafting. And there's just so much more moving parts with PF to think about. It can be a bit overwhelming, since there are now literally hundreds of feats and traits, thousands of spells,...SmiloDan (RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)2016-06-16T03:24:20ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Lucy_Valentinehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#312016-06-16T04:00:46Z2016-06-15T21:06:17Z<p>My local gaming shop has an rpg night. Three to five games run at once. Last rotation there were two 5e games, the one before one 5e and one PF. Next rotation... I don't know, but I don't remember anyone mentioning PF. No proof, but I think 5e is more popular.</p>
<p>I can see why. 5e is a fun and simple game. It's easy to explain, it's pretty solid, and it doesn't need guides, massive system mastery, and knowledge of thousands of feats (I know technically that's part of system mastery, but it seemed important enough to mention twice). I built an L8 character and <i>didn't</i> get it wrong even though I hadn't memorised the magic item list and the feats list. That was nice.</p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn't run 5e because it's not my style. But I probably wouldn't run PF either - maybe if a friend asked and I felt up to it, and then only a session or two, like PFS.</p>
<p>As a player, I found 5e combat quick and simple, yet also with tactics. The finesse stuff just works. Combat manoeuvres just work. Cheeky Eldar-style move-shoot-move dirty rogue tactics just work. It's functional out of the box and if you just follow the advice built into the class description you get an effective character immediately. Nice! Whereas I need to do <i>research</i> before building a PF character. </p>
<p>From my perspective, though, the problem with 5e is that it's like The Force Awakens - it does a lot of things right, but ultimately it's the same old story told again with slightly better special effects and less sexism and racism. So it's definitely an improvement, but TFA was for kids. I'm not quite going to say 5e is, because I had fun and I'm in my thirties, but I will say that from a campaign macro perspective 5e seems to do exactly one thing - it tells the D&D story. You know, the one where you start off as an almost-helpless mook of a stereotype, and end up as a demigoddess of the same stereotype. If you want to do that, it's a fine and fun system. </p>
<p>PF has the advantage that you don't start off as an almost-helpless mook, you can at least be competent at a couple of things. And the system's complexity does at least allow you to step outside the usual D&D stereotypes, if you want to.</p>
<p>PF also has a weird attraction that isn't really a good thing from a design perspective, but does engage some people - the attraction <i>of</i> pointless complexity. Exploring the rule system and the frankly ludicrous numbers of options can be entertaining in and of itself, for the right sort of mind. Which I have.</p>My local gaming shop has an rpg night. Three to five games run at once. Last rotation there were two 5e games, the one before one 5e and one PF. Next rotation... I don't know, but I don't remember anyone mentioning PF. No proof, but I think 5e is more popular.
I can see why. 5e is a fun and simple game. It's easy to explain, it's pretty solid, and it doesn't need guides, massive system mastery, and knowledge of thousands of feats (I know technically that's part of system mastery, but it...Lucy_Valentine2016-06-15T21:06:17ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Darrell Impey UKhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#302016-06-16T04:00:28Z2016-06-14T20:31:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">thenovalord wrote:</div><blockquote><p> The UK biggest rpg con was a few weeks back, I wonder what the player count for each was.
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</blockquote><p>UK Games Expo is certainly the biggest tabletop gaming event in the UK (hell, according to their post-con press release, the numbers put it 3rd or 4th in the world), but I'd argue that there are cons that have more tables of RPGs. (Conception had 365 tables this year, down from 450 last year due to unexpected space restrictions.)
<p>Can't comment about home-games (obviously), but from what I see, Pathfinder still has more Con' tables than 5e in the UK, especially when it comes to organised play. Though the numbers do appear to be closing.</p>thenovalord wrote:The UK biggest rpg con was a few weeks back, I wonder what the player count for each was.
UK Games Expo is certainly the biggest tabletop gaming event in the UK (hell, according to their post-con press release, the numbers put it 3rd or 4th in the world), but I'd argue that there are cons that have more tables of RPGs. (Conception had 365 tables this year, down from 450 last year due to unexpected space restrictions.) Can't comment about home-games (obviously), but from...Darrell Impey UK2016-06-14T20:31:44ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....RyanHhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#282016-09-10T08:29:36Z2016-06-14T19:58:08Z<p>There is an abundance of celebrities playing and online live games being played right now that mostly use 5e. That will be a draw towards 5e</p>
<p>Acquisitions Incorporated the Series, Critical Role, etc.</p>There is an abundance of celebrities playing and online live games being played right now that mostly use 5e. That will be a draw towards 5e
Acquisitions Incorporated the Series, Critical Role, etc.RyanH2016-06-14T19:58:08ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Dustin Ashehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#272016-06-29T14:31:40Z2016-06-14T19:18:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shadowkras wrote:</div><blockquote>5e is a guide to make up your own rules.</blockquote><p>This is actually what I love about 5e. It's so freeing.shadowkras wrote:5e is a guide to make up your own rules.
This is actually what I love about 5e. It's so freeing.Dustin Ashe2016-06-14T19:18:47ZRe: Forums: 4th Edition: Pathfinder vs 5e in the UK....Harleequinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tq2d?Pathfinder-vs-5e-in-the-UK#222016-06-14T17:22:56Z2016-06-14T17:22:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>I don't think that's true. I think that D+D is going back to the older better days when the majority of books were written for DM's than the players. i.e. hopefully more of a focus on cranking out settings and modules than a new players option book every month the way Paizo is working Pathfinder. </blockquote><p>I agree... from what I've heard, the complaints about system mechanics only came in with 3.5.
<p>5e seems to be trying to get back to that D&D 2-3e type feel....it could well work.</p>Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:I don't think that's true. I think that D+D is going back to the older better days when the majority of books were written for DM's than the players. i.e. hopefully more of a focus on cranking out settings and modules than a new players option book every month the way Paizo is working Pathfinder.
I agree... from what I've heard, the complaints about system mechanics only came in with 3.5. 5e seems to be trying to get back to that D&D 2-3e type feel....it could well...Harleequin2016-06-14T17:22:56Z