What is the highest level of pc's you will run in a game ?
As in what levels do you refuse to run because the game becomes unbalanced ?
Thanks all!
I refuse levels 1-3. Everything else is fair game.
>As in what levels do you refuse to run because the game becomes unbalanced?
Uh, highest level that it is possible to challenge PCs at? Don't really know. Perhaps VMC lv20 with 10 mythic tiers?
Level 23( I know officially the highest level is 20) with no mythic levels.
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I'll let you know when I get there. Epic Levels are awesome.
I try to avoid starting any lower than level 5 though, that's when the game really starts to become fun, below that is mostly just an annoying grind.
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So far? 30.
I'd keep going if the campaign did.
From level 3+ im game.
Usually i just dont like starting at high levels, but if gets there, then im perfectly happy with it.
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Till they're all dead and not coming back. I will come up with a way to challenge level 100 players if required. Just watch me.
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Huh? I love seeding the campaign from Level 1. It makes the game more exciting instead of just sending the players up to a comfortable safety-zone where they can weather the current difficulty of CR-appropriate enemies. I can see why casters get annoyed as I trudge through as street magician for the first couple of levels while Fighter and Barbie wreck the world. JK Color Spray and Sleep are fun then.
I've run up to Level 16 in PF and 3.5. Either we complete our objectives by that point OR the dice catch up with them where my escalating threats arrayed against the party overwhelms their efforts. No shame, they did their best, and sometimes a wipe is a wipe, and as a DM I'm not afraid to take responsibility/blame for a TPK when my PCs performed brilliantly and heroically in their twilight hour.
With the doubling XP past L20, and I've had fun adding up the APs XP progression as they are published, a party still wouldn't be at Level 25 at medium progression ^_^. Would be nice to see... until one realizes that if the APs' encounters aren't adjusted, once the party survived Adventure 1 (IE RotRL which btw is still one of the more higher leveled ones barring comparison with WotR) they won't be challenged again till they hit book 6 of the next AP, if at all, and maybe if they are down to two members.
Hmm, based on that... 20 Level monoclass and choose an appropriate 3 or 5 level progression prestige class for a second capstone and completed character is my next step in just Pathfinder theory-crunching.
Back on topic: the level that my Players say they are finished and want to move on to other things, be it another campaign or hobby.
I suppose this thread subtly infers where everyone's comfort level is. Being honest, Invisibility, Plane Shifting, Teleportation challenges me, but I gamely play along and try to keep the story rolling as DM without directly neutralizing every tactic the PCs unveil because yeah, they are growing, and their increased capability is just another thing for me to get used to and enjoy. Some DMs love staying low-level short campaigns, and I sympathize/envy them only in that yes, their games aren't as plodding, where PC's turns don't take minutes to formulate or execute.
Level 20, and that's just because there's no real official epic level support.
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I think the game tends to fall apart after 7th level spells are introduced.
I don't have a limit. If you know how to balance for the higher levels it can still be extremely fun. Granted its much harder after about level 13 or so, but it is possible.
I am up to 13th for the first time and I am running into problems.
I enjoy the lower levels, although I've played/GM'd most of the core classes enough that I would prefer to try something different at low level.
Mid levels are where the game shines. Everything runs fairly smoothly.
I found there is usually a point at about 10th level where some builds start to fall apart or the players get bored. It is about when the PCs start facing groups of giants, vampire casters, and nasty outsiders, and what worked at level 5 stops working. Often I think it just boils down to a characters weakness becoming not worth the flavor compared to a shiny new character purpose built for high level play.
The 15-17 range is about the highest I have really played up to, and sadly, games tended to really fall apart at those levels. Much of that was due to using 3.5 where CoDzilla was brutal and even paladins and rangers basically sucked at higher levels.
I think playing above about 12th level is fun in moderation, but high level combats and adventuring can be a bit much if played session after session without a break. I think I have more fun playing at higher levels then GM'ing higher levels.
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I am up to 13th for the first time and I am running into problems.
The first time I did it 7th level spells were kicking my butt. Is that what is getting you?
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I ran the Rise of the Runelords adventure path, which got the PCs from 1st level to 17th level, followed up with the Witchwar Legacy to get them up to 18th level, invented new material to reach 20th level, and then had one small quest at 20th level, so that the two players who had remained from the beginning could say that they had played from 1st to 20th level.
Even in the modules I adjusted the material to create tough challenges that played to the PCs strengths, so I never had trouble with imbalance. CR was irrelevant. My goal was to give every PC moments to be awesome.
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I am up to 13th for the first time and I am running into problems.The first time I did it 7th level spells were kicking my butt. Is that what is getting you?
It has become harder to balance the encounters. The line between a cakewalk and a total party death seems to have narrowed. Also encounters have generally ground to a halt. Things are more complicated and harder to adjudicate.
APL 25.
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Highest I've DM'd was 36
Which Edition? AD&D 1.x had support up to 29th level, but not for all classes (some classes quit after a certain level) and certainly not for all races (everybody other than Human was limited in level for anything other than Thief, except that female Drow were unlimited in Cleric, and Half-Orcs were limited in Thief but unlimited in Assassin, but then Assassin was class-limited to 15th level). The Basic-Expert-etc. D&D series went I think all the way to level 36. D&D 4th Edition (*cough*, *cough*) went to level 30, as did D&D 3.x Epic Rules (honest effort but flawed execution). I don't have 2nd Edition so I'm not sure about it, but if I remember correctly it only went to 20th level, like 5th Edition and Pathfinder (although Pathfinder has the optional Mythic Adventures to level up in parallel, although I'd say that is more flawed than D&D 3.x Epic Rules).
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I'm currently running an AP and the characters are up to 10th level. It's the first time I've seen Pathfinder characters at this level - we usually stick to lower levels.
I won't be playing anything beyond E6 again.
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What is the highest level of pc's you will run in a game ?
As in what levels do you refuse to run because the game becomes unbalanced ?
Thanks all!
I much prefer the game 2nd - 12th... I'm willing to run it to about 17th, but to be honest unless you start off high, rarely do campaigns advance that far before rebooting.
I'm actually doing a write-up right now for a massive campaign I'm calling 'The Runelord Saga' which includes all of Rise of the Runelords, three volumes of Shattered Star and one volume of Curse of the Crimson Throne as well as half-a-dozen PFS scenarios and some custom stuff... the advancement ends up being on kind of a bell curve with the vast majority of it taking place @ 5th - 12th before things kind of pick up steam on the back end... though it does run all the way up to 18th or so as written.
Just curious--what 7th level spells have given the posters upthread issues?
I'm curious as well. When I played my sorcerer in Kingmaker 7th level spells were pretty much throwaways - I mostly used my 7th level spell slots for metamagic. Literally every other spell level had a lineup of spells I wanted that made me think carefully over what order I wanted to get them.
My highest level game was a 3.5 game that reached 35th level (and divine rank 10 for the final battle).
Highest so far in Pathfinder is L20/MR 7 -- wanted to go all the way to MR 10 but that campaign's on indefinite hiatus due to scheduling.
I prefer level 9+, because the PCs are finally becoming powerful and can actually do things. I'll start at 1 or 2, but low level games generally aren't as interesting to me.
I only have experience with low level campaigns. And while it kind of sucks not being able to throw these gargantuan beasts at them on the reg, the lower scale of power is awesome. I'm more of a fan of low magic stuff as is, but I really enjoy the difficulty of feeling like you have to pick your battles.
At top tier levels, an army is a second thought for the god wizard. At level one a group of guards poses a serious threat.
What is the highest level of pc's you will run in a game ?
As in what levels do you refuse to run because the game becomes unbalanced ?
Thanks all!
Depends on what I want to run. I don't run open-ended camapaigns. Mine will have a beginning, a crescendo, and an ending. And I'll generally have players make characters of an appropriate level.
High Level campaigns absolutely require a vastly different approach compared to those running below 12th, and GMs who can't make that switch are generally advised to end their campaigns at that point.
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I've gone as high as level 32 back in 3.5... In Pathfinder, the highest I got was 24.
Past level 17 or so, the game goes bonkers. It turns into a very different game... And the GM has to be prepared for anything and everything. There is no more railroading when every PC has multiple ways to completely alter the narrative.
Just curious--what 7th level spells have given the posters upthread issues?
OT: level 20. But high level play is like dessert--love it, especially after a hearty meal, but it'd make me sick if it was all I ate :)
I can handle it now, but the save or die spells were killing NPC's, and it was 3.5 combined with optimized casters and my first time GM'ing high level play.
I dont think it was just spells, but it was a factor. Finger of death and low rolls. I was also using single monster combats.