Do some people here feel some spells need to be on the spell lists of other classes? Like Mage Armor and / or Endure Elements?
I'm sure that everyone has at least one spell that they think should be on an additional spell list -- my particular favorite is that touch of fatigue should be a magus cantrip.
But in general, the spell lists are deliberately restricted, in part to make teamwork more practical (since you can't just have your übermancer cast any spell you like) and in part to make different classes play differently (alchemists play differently from bards, in part because alchemists were designed to be more 'selfish' in their spells).
So overall, I'd say that it's not a big problem.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm generally not a fan of spells that are only available to a single class, although I'm okay with spells that specifically interact with a classes abilities being restricted (such as spells that play off of an Inquisitors Judgement, or Paladin's Smite, or Ranger's Favored Enemy bonuses).
One example I'd like to see spread out is the various scaling psionic attack/defense mode spells on the Psychic list (mind thrust, ego whip,. intellect fortress, etc.), which, IMO, would be very appropriate on the Mesmerist list as well.
Other spells just seem to be kind of arbitrarily linked to one class, such as produce flame, which seems like a perfectly good spell for a fire sorcerer or wizard to have.
And then there's the practicals. Druids have lesser restoration, but lack restoration, which is kind of vital for a class filling the 'healer' role, and creates a sort of artificial bottleneck where every party eventually needs a Cleric, and can accept no substitutions. If someone *wants* to play a Cleric, then that should be encouraged, but not by just *forcing* someone to play that class, because they have some cures that nobody else has.
Psychic should have Protection from Evil.
|
I do wish there was mor diversity in spelp lists over all, but I also do wish there where more options for classes to add spells to their specific lists, too.
3.5 Had the "priest of <climate>" and Devoted (I believe) Feats to add a small list of extra spells that was very thematically appropriate. Pathfinder has a few but its mostly restricted to Druid, Paladin, and Wizard if I recall, so cool, but too little.
One thing I would like is a way to get Cat's Grace on an Archer Cleric (Erastil/Abadar), or an Elven Cleric or Oracle who might favor that over Bull's Strength or Bear's Endurance. Oracles might have a way, I have not really looked into it, but I have not noticed a way for Clerics.
I actually think there should be more diversity between spell lists. A bit too many spells are accessible to almost all casters, I feel.
QFT
Fumble, the spell in the GameMastery Critical Fumble Deck, has witch written all over it.
Do some people here feel some spells need to be on the spell lists of other classes? Like Mage Armor and / or Endure Elements?
Feeling the lack of those on your shirtless magus?
Certain spells are pure staples. Freedom of Movement for example was on every core class spell list, even the ranger. Yet it was forgotten on the witch spell list. Why? They certainly deserve it if a wizard or cleric does.
School abjuration; Level alchemist 4, bard 4, cleric/oracle 4, druid 4, hunter 4, inquisitor 4, investigator 4, medium 4, mesmerist 4, occultist 4, psychic 4, ranger 4, skald 4, spiritualist 4, warpriest 4.
Sorceror/Wizard doesn't get Freedom of Movement.
I'm sort of conflicted. As is a lot of spell lists start to feel very homogenous because there are so many universal spells, especially along a single magic type.
On the other hand I often bump into spells that really feel like they should be on another class' list and a lot of class specific spells feel sort of wasted because you'll never get to see them in most games. I'm looking at you, huge list of psychic only spells. Obviously spells that rely on specific class features to work here don't count.
Personally, I think it should be the other way. There is so much overlap in the lists as it is that many casters with completely different builds seem functionally the same.
Despite wizards making things get up and move around, Animate Object is not a Sorcerer/Wizard spell. That just bugs me.
Despite wizards making things get up and move around, Animate Object is not a Sorcerer/Wizard spell. That just bugs me.
This. Also I tried building a flame shaman the other day and they don't get like half of the good fire spells.
I'm sure that everyone has at least one spell that they think should be on an additional spell list -- my particular favorite is that touch of fatigue should be a magus cantrip.
QFT
Touch of Fatigue really does belong on the magus spell list.
I'm sort of conflicted. As is a lot of spell lists start to feel very homogenous because there are so many universal spells, especially along a single magic type.
There was no real reason to give the magus their own spell list. They should have been using the wizard spell list.
Feeling the lack of those on your shirtless magus?
Nope: used his first arcana to grab Mage Armor and Touch of Fatigue.
Certain spells are pure staples. Freedom of Movement for example was on every core class spell list, even the ranger. Yet it was forgotten on the witch spell list. Why? They certainly deserve it if a wizard or cleric does.
And there are others. The witch is themed around enchantments, fooling others, and general trickery and 'disruptive' spells. But has almost no illusions. Lightning bolt and fireball are both key, nearly iconic elemental spells. Druid, the nature/elemental caster, doesn't get them. Seems a bit odd to me.
Druids get call lightning and plenty of fire spells (flame strike flaming sphere, flame blade, etc.), but fireballs and lightning bolts are pretty iconically wizard spells. Druids call the fury of nature and the elements down on you, so they get call lightning, wizards throw bolts of electricity of balls of fire at people.
Magi don't get mage armour because that's for the armourless wizards, magi are supposed to wear actual armour.
Do some people here feel some spells need to be on the spell lists of other classes? Like Mage Armor and / or Endure Elements?
I feel that a really good D&D edition/descendant ought to decide, and then stick to its decision: Are spells special snowflake options each tied to a different class, or are spells universal options that different classes access differently?
'Cause the problem with this issue has always been that some game writers work under one assumption, and others work under the other. In an ideal world, many gamers and game writers alike would go with the first decision. But I don't think it's happenstance or laziness that so many spells are shared between so many spell lists: Spell lists are the most time-consuming part of class creation, and each shared spell is one less spell that must be created per caster class beyond the first.
Nor do I think that different classes accessing the same spells differently is the less-preferable option. There are and always have been ways to make different classes different even if they were to share all the same spells. There are differing avenues of spell access, alternative casting mechanics, basic class stats, and other class features which can and are used to differentiate casters. And as Set points out, some spells are simply staples that can create a sucky 'choice' when only one or two classes have access.
i wish there was more diversity, especially unique spells for each class.
That being said, it always annoyed me that witches don't get personal polymorph spells. This is a trope well known for turning into animals and changing their appearance and yet they don't even get beast shape. And somehow they can cast hostile polymorph spells when they can't even turn themselves into a cat?
i wish there was more diversity, especially unique spells for each class.
That being said, it always annoyed me that witches don't get personal polymorph spells. This is a trope well known for turning into animals and changing their appearance and yet they don't even get beast shape. And somehow they can cast hostile polymorph spells when they can't even turn themselves into a cat?
.
NPC: She turned me into a newt!Adventurer: You don't look like a newt
NPC: ... I got better...
This is a trope well known for turning into animals and changing their appearance and yet they don't even get beast shape. And somehow they can cast hostile polymorph spells when they can't even turn themselves into a cat?
I believe their intent was to use the patrons for those iconic effects.
Transformation patron has all kinds of shape changing spells.What lacked, honestly, was more unique spells, specially at higher levels.
The SRD is also lacking the proper link to all spells granted by witch patrons or oracle mysteries, only domains got that treatment.
Shapechange,for instance, is on Agility 9, Transformation 9 and Strength 9.