"Blood Tentacles" spell


Rules Questions


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Hi, I have a few questions about this spell and didn't find any answer yet.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-tentacles

"You smear a handful of your own blood across your chest, causing one writhing tentacle per caster level to burst forth. You can direct these tentacles to attack a single creature within 15 feet as a standard action, or one creature per 5 caster levels as a full-round action. Each tentacle has an attack bonus equal to your base attack bonus plus either your Constitution or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher). Each tentacle deals 2d6 points of damage, and a tentacle collapses into dried blood on a successful hit, granting you a number of temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt. You can't gain more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points. These temporary hit points disappear after 1 hour."

-1- Does this means you can make all the tentacles attack a single creature as a standard action or just one ?

-2- Casting the spell is a standard action so i assume you can't use the tentacles on the first round, am I wrong ?

-3- Can i use the tentacles to make attacks of opportunity ?

-4- Can these tentacles benefit from amulet of mighty fist, divine favor, or from a challenge class feature ?

-5- I don't understand the last two sentences. I thought temporary hit points from the same source didn't stack. How could you get more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points ? Can they stack with themselves or just with other sources ???

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nses?Do-Temporary-Hit-Points-Stack#1

-6- If you enhance the tentacles damage (with divine favor or the challenge if they work, see -4-), do you get more temporary hit points ?

-7- If you use the full round option to make the tentacles attack several targets, does all tentacles attack all allowed targets or do I have to split the tentacles ???

-8- Can i use these tentacles to make melee touch spells ? Do they damage the creature touched ?

Scarab Sages

Yogmoth wrote:

Hi, I have a few questions about this spell and didn't find any answer yet.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-tentacles

"You smear a handful of your own blood across your chest, causing one writhing tentacle per caster level to burst forth. You can direct these tentacles to attack a single creature within 15 feet as a standard action, or one creature per 5 caster levels as a full-round action. Each tentacle has an attack bonus equal to your base attack bonus plus either your Constitution or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher). Each tentacle deals 2d6 points of damage, and a tentacle collapses into dried blood on a successful hit, granting you a number of temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt. You can't gain more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points. These temporary hit points disappear after 1 hour."

-1- Does this means you can make all the tentacles attack a single creature as a standard action or just one ?

I think you only get 1 attack oper creature, so only one attack on a standard action. By RAW however, it seems you get all

Quote:
-2- Casting the spell is a standard action so i assume you can't use the tentacles on the first round, am I wrong ?

That would be my assumption

Quote:
-3- Can i use the tentacles to make attacks of opportunity ?

No. these are not stated to be weapons or natural attacks

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-4- Can these tentacles benefit from amulet of mighty fist, divine favor, or from a challenge class feature ?

Mighty fists: No. Not unarmed strikes or natural attacks. Divine Favor: Yes on attack, no on Damage (its spell damage) Challenge: the base bonuses I would say yes.

Quote:
-5- I don't understand the last two sentences. I thought temporary hit points from the same source didn't stack. How could you get more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points ? Can they stack with themselves or just with other sources ???

D20 PFSRD on Temp HP While there is debate over whether Temp HP is a Bonus which can stack (and therefore consult your GM) my view is that this spell is one pool of temp HP from one source, no stacking required. Additionally, if you roll good damage, and or have low HP you might get more Temporary HP then regular HP. For instance, if you have 10 MAX normal HP and have max health and roll 12 on your damage, you gain an additional 12 temp HP. But you can't gain more then 10. so you only gain 10 HP, so now you have 10 regular HP, and 10 Temp HP for a total of 20 HP.

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-6- If you enhance the tentacles damage (with divine favor or the challenge if they work, see -4-), do you get more temporary hit points ?

Yes

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-7- If you use the full round option to make the tentacles attack several targets, does all tentacles attack all allowed targets or do I have to split the tentacles ???

each tentacle gets one attack (again my read) so you only get one tentacle per target. If on the other hand the tentacles are an all at once thing, you would still have to split up the tentacles between the targets.

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-8- Can i use these tentacles to make melee touch spells ? Do they damage the creature touched ?

No.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

1. Just one attack on a single creature

2. You are correct. You can start attacking the next round

3. No, unfortunately. But, you could make a good case to your GM.

4. Hard to say. My opinion is that generic attack bonuses would apply (divine favor, challenge), but not bonuses to natural weapons (Amulet of Mighty Fists). I don't think the tentacles count as weapons for the purpose of bonuses.

5. All the instances from a single casting of the spell would stack. Each hit is just increasing the number of temporary hit points the spell is granting you.

6. I don't think most possibilities of increased damage would be effective. But, if you did find a way to increase damage, it would increase the temp hp you get.

7. One tentacle per target (you use your full BAB for each)

8. No, your control is not that great. The spell does not give you a natural attack.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Yogmoth wrote:


-1- Does this means you can make all the tentacles attack a single creature as a standard action or just one ?

I'm largely in agreement with the above posters regarding the above questions, but my take on this one was different--I read it as allowing you to make all of your tentacle attacks against a single creature as a standard action (or to divy up all of the tentacle attacks between up to lvl/5 targets as a full round action). And of course, tentacles disappear after hitting.

That's my RAW reading. But power level considerations also make me think that this is RAI. Given the level of the spell, and the restrictions on this spell (15' range, need attack rolls to hit, need to spend a round casting and then *another* round attacking), my reading strikes me as about right, power-level wise. The one tentacle per round reading would make this spell terrible -- a (weak) second level spell, not a fifth level spell.

Of course, even given my reading, it's not a great spell, and probably wouldn't get taken much. But at least it's recognizably in the fifth level ballpark.


Thanks for your answers.

About -1- :

After reading the first two answers I admit I wondered why a spellcaster able to cast it would. The spell seems really underwhelming at this level if it's the case. Especially since tentacles doesn't target touch AC and you spent a turn casting it and not using it. But that's just a power level consideration i admit.

About -5- : How could you get more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points ? Can they stack with themselves or just with other sources ???

Quote:
my view is that this spell is one pool of temp HP from one source, no stacking required. Additionally, if you roll good damage, and or have low HP you might get more Temporary HP then regular HP. For instance, if you have 10 MAX normal HP and have max health and roll 12 on your damage, you gain an additional 12 temp HP. But you can't gain more then 10. so you only gain 10 HP, so now you have 10 regular HP, and 10 Temp HP for a total of 20 HP.
Quote:
5. All the instances from a single casting of the spell would stack. Each hit is just increasing the number of temporary hit points the spell is granting you.

I'm not sure to understand you. If i can attack once, hit, get 2d6 temporary hit points (+any relevant damage bonus) i roll 7. Monster attack me and miss. My turn, i attack once, hit again, get 2d6 temporary hit points, i roll 11. Do i have 18 temporary hit points or 11 ? You seems to think they stack so 18 ?

I'll add a new question:

-9- Since these blood tentacles seems to be made from your blood, do they spread any disease you have ? The character is an Urgathoa priest so it may be usefull to know.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Yogmoth wrote:

Thanks for your answers.

About -1- :

After reading the first two answers I admit I wondered why a spellcaster able to cast it would. The spell seems really underwhelming at this level if it's the case. Especially since tentacles doesn't target touch AC and you spent a turn casting it and not using it. But that's just a power level consideration i admit.

About -5- : How could you get more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points ? Can they stack with themselves or just with other sources ???

Quote:
my view is that this spell is one pool of temp HP from one source, no stacking required. Additionally, if you roll good damage, and or have low HP you might get more Temporary HP then regular HP. For instance, if you have 10 MAX normal HP and have max health and roll 12 on your damage, you gain an additional 12 temp HP. But you can't gain more then 10. so you only gain 10 HP, so now you have 10 regular HP, and 10 Temp HP for a total of 20 HP.
Quote:
5. All the instances from a single casting of the spell would stack. Each hit is just increasing the number of temporary hit points the spell is granting you.

I'm not sure to understand you. If i can attack once, hit, get 2d6 temporary hit points (+any relevant damage bonus) i roll 7. Monster attack me and miss. My turn, i attack once, hit again, get 2d6 temporary hit points, i roll 11. Do i have 18 temporary hit points or 11 ? You seems to think they stack so 18 ?

I'll add a new question:

-9- Since these blood tentacles seems to be made from your blood, do they spread any disease you have ? The character is an Urgathoa priest so it may be usefull to know.

My take on #5: You can't get more temp HP from this spell than you have regular HP, because the spell says so. It's unclear to me whether the temp HP the spell gives you stacks with itself, RAW, but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to, RAI. (Otherwise the text about how much temp HP you can get makes little sense, since any caster of high enough level to cast this will have more than 2d6 HP.)

My take on #9: I would think not -- the blood stuff seems to just be flavor, and the spell doesn't say anything about being able to do things like transmit diseases.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Yogmoth wrote:

Thanks for your answers.

About -1- :

After reading the first two answers I admit I wondered why a spellcaster able to cast it would. The spell seems really underwhelming at this level if it's the case. Especially since tentacles doesn't target touch AC and you spent a turn casting it and not using it. But that's just a power level consideration i admit.

I see your (and Porridge's) point. I've reconsidered my reading in consideration of the spell level. I'd say that you can attack with all the tentacles at a time.

I'd even go so far as to say you attack with all of them on each target as part of a full round action. (But those that hit your first target disappear before they can attack your second, etc.).


Sorry to necro this thread, but i have a few other questions:

-10- Since you can attack with these tentacles, can you make trip, sunder, disam attempts with them ?

-11- If yes, does the tentacle collapse on a successful attempt? Or even on a failed one?

-12- Is tentacle damage subject to DR? I assume they are spell damage

-13- Can it be enhanced with empower/maximize spell?


Blood Tentacles

Quote:
You smear a handful of your own blood across your chest, causing one writhing tentacle per caster level to burst forth. You can direct these tentacles to attack a single creature within 15 feet as a standard action, or one creature per 5 caster levels as a full-round action. Each tentacle has an attack bonus equal to your base attack bonus plus either your Constitution or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher). Each tentacle deals 2d6 points of damage, and a tentacle collapses into dried blood on a successful hit, granting you a number of temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt. You can't gain more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points. These temporary hit points disappear after 1 hour.
Yogmoth wrote:
-1- Does this means you can make all the tentacles attack a single creature as a standard action or just one ?

Don't see why not. But each tentacle must make its own attack roll. Kind of like Scorching Ray.

Yogmoth wrote:
-2- Casting the spell is a standard action so i assume you can't use the tentacles on the first round, am I wrong ?

The spell creates the tentacles. Attacking does not come free with the cast. You must use a separate standard (or full round) to do the attack. A quickened cast, however, lets you cast then attack in the same round.

Yogmoth wrote:
-3- Can i use the tentacles to make attacks of opportunity ?

No. Your options are standard action and full round action.

Yogmoth wrote:
-4- Can these tentacles benefit from amulet of mighty fist, divine favor, or from a challenge class feature ?

Amulet of Natural Armor: affects natural weapons and unarmed attacks, not spells -- no bonus.

Divine Favor: affects attack and weapon damage -- bonus on the attack, no extra damage.
Challenge: affects melee attacks -- they sure look like melee attacks to me.

Yogmoth wrote:

-5- I don't understand the last two sentences. I thought temporary hit points from the same source didn't stack. How could you get more temporary hit points than your maximum number of hit points ? Can they stack with themselves or just with other sources ???

Do Temporary Hit Points Stack

The temp it points is from the spell. Each hit confers some of the points. When all have hit, then all points have been generated.

Each hit does 2d6+Mod. A critical hit is 4d6+2*Mod. Max is 24+2*Mod per tentacle. Max for the spell is (24+2*Mod)*Level. Even with a mod of zero, that is 24 points per level. I don't think I have encountered any caster with that many hit points. If they came close, they had high con, which would have double the effect in the spell.

Yogmoth wrote:
-6- If you enhance the tentacles damage (with divine favor or the challenge if they work, see -4-), do you get more temporary hit points ?

Yep.

Yogmoth wrote:
-7- If you use the full round option to make the tentacles attack several targets, does all tentacles attack all allowed targets or do I have to split the tentacles ???

All tentacles attack, but each can only attack one creature. Remember, a hit destroys the tentacle, so at best the other interpretation is just more chances to hit, not more damage.

Yogmoth wrote:
-8- Can i use these tentacles to make melee touch spells ? Do they damage the creature touched ?

Not as the free attack with a casting of a spell. However, with spells like Chill Touch it might be OK. Depends on the spell and the GM. [I would allow chill touch, but I don't think it works RAW.]

Yogmoth wrote:
-9- Since these blood tentacles seems to be made from your blood, do they spread any disease you have ? The character is an Urgathoa priest so it may be usefull to know.

No. The blood is consumed as the material component. The tentacles are created by the spell. The spell would have to say they are composed of your blood to have any hope to pass along a disease.

Yogmoth wrote:
-10- Since you can attack with these tentacles, can you make trip, sunder, disam attempts with them ?

Not a listed option of the spell, so no.

Yogmoth wrote:
-11- If yes, does the tentacle collapse on a successful attempt? Or even on a failed one?

See above.

Yogmoth wrote:
-12- Is tentacle damage subject to DR? I assume they are spell damage

As I think it is a weapon-like spell, I would say yes.

However, spell resistance could shut it down fast. First hit, check SR: fail, and the spell cannot damage it.

Yogmoth wrote:
-13- Can it be enhanced with empower/maximize spell?

Sure.

/cevah

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