How would you best use Create Mindscape?


Advice


As the title asks, I'm interested in this spell, but I'm unsure of how to implement it properly. At first glance, it seems to be a potentially, longer lasting Hold Person, that forces you to stop moving too. If you leave, the spell is broken and the same happens if you go to 0 HP in the mindscape and the same for the opponent. So, are you essentially just trying your best to hold them inside and hope that your allies are protecting your body and destroying / apprehending theirs in real life?

I noticed that you don't have to be in the same room, just aware of them. Is this meant to be more a sort of lockdown this one guy while my party takes care of something in that area? This seems to be more the case. If it is the case, its seems quite niche then. Especially since everything in the mindscape is an illusion and they get a will save if you want to hide the way out.

Create Greater Mindscape seems much better (as it should, it is greater after all), but is the normal Create Mindscape even worth using? Or should one just wait until they can use create greater?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
Third Mind wrote:

As the title asks, I'm interested in this spell, but I'm unsure of how to implement it properly. At first glance, it seems to be a potentially, longer lasting Hold Person, that forces you to stop moving too. If you leave, the spell is broken and the same happens if you go to 0 HP in the mindscape and the same for the opponent. So, are you essentially just trying your best to hold them inside and hope that your allies are protecting your body and destroying / apprehending theirs in real life?

I noticed that you don't have to be in the same room, just aware of them. Is this meant to be more a sort of lockdown this one guy while my party takes care of something in that area? This seems to be more the case. If it is the case, its seems quite niche then. Especially since everything in the mindscape is an illusion and they get a will save if you want to hide the way out.

Create Greater Mindscape seems much better (as it should, it is greater after all), but is the normal Create Mindscape even worth using? Or should one just wait until they can use create greater?

Maybe you could use it to message a captured PC or NPC that you are attempting to rescue. You could no doubt get more information that way. You could also just mess with someone, I think this spell is more flavor than mechanically useful. It looks like it could be fun to use though.


Nekrotanos wrote:
Third Mind wrote:

As the title asks, I'm interested in this spell, but I'm unsure of how to implement it properly. At first glance, it seems to be a potentially, longer lasting Hold Person, that forces you to stop moving too. If you leave, the spell is broken and the same happens if you go to 0 HP in the mindscape and the same for the opponent. So, are you essentially just trying your best to hold them inside and hope that your allies are protecting your body and destroying / apprehending theirs in real life?

I noticed that you don't have to be in the same room, just aware of them. Is this meant to be more a sort of lockdown this one guy while my party takes care of something in that area? This seems to be more the case. If it is the case, its seems quite niche then. Especially since everything in the mindscape is an illusion and they get a will save if you want to hide the way out.

Create Greater Mindscape seems much better (as it should, it is greater after all), but is the normal Create Mindscape even worth using? Or should one just wait until they can use create greater?

Maybe you could use it to message a captured PC or NPC that you are attempting to rescue. You could no doubt get more information that way. You could also just mess with someone, I think this spell is more flavor than mechanically useful. It looks like it could be fun to use though.

I like that. It's actually pretty clever. A private meeting place in the mind that can be escaped easily when needed. Could even be at an inn and be a few rooms over, above or under and pull it off with the range they give. I think I like the spell for that, and for possibly holding a specific being in one spot while others move around them.

Like for example, in the inn scenario. You need to check out the room of a rival sergeant, so you, who is a few rooms away, use the spell and get him. If you can keep him in there for long enough, your party can search his room with him in it, and he won't know that they were there. Interesting.

Not quite good in terms of offensive uses though, it seems.


A villain or spy can use this for one on one shenanigans on sleeping targets at night. Set up in an inn within long range of someone's home and pull them in to kill them (they sleep without gear, right?) or interrogate or mind probe or Suggestion them.

I find it easy to believe that some of the less savory demonic cultists use this to prey on victims, too.


Slithery D wrote:

A villain or spy can use this for one on one shenanigans on sleeping targets at night. Set up in an inn within long range of someone's home and pull them in to kill them (they sleep without gear, right?) or interrogate or mind probe or Suggestion them.

I find it easy to believe that some of the less savory demonic cultists use this to prey on victims, too.

So a partner style deal? Because I thought that if you, the creator of the mindscape leave first, the mindscape stops entirely. I could definitely see it as a two assassin sort of thing though.


Third Mind wrote:
So a partner style deal? Because I thought that if you, the creator of the mindscape leave first, the mindscape stops entirely. I could definitely see it as a two assassin sort of thing though.

There doesn't need to be a partner, you can just kill them in the mindscape.


Milo v3 wrote:
Third Mind wrote:
So a partner style deal? Because I thought that if you, the creator of the mindscape leave first, the mindscape stops entirely. I could definitely see it as a two assassin sort of thing though.
There doesn't need to be a partner, you can just kill them in the mindscape.

I see. I thought that dropping them to 0 HP just goes back to their body / the real world.

d20PFSRD wrote:
This spell ends at any time that you choose to depart the mindscape, freeing the target as well. Any creature that drops below 0 hit points while inside the mindscape returns to its body. If this happens to you, the spell also ends, freeing anyone still inside.

It doesn't seem to say they wouldn't be alive or injured when returning to their body. I guess I was thinking it just snapped them back to consciousness and they would go about their unharmed lives.


Pull them into a Mindscape while they're sleeping. Use your surprise round to use a spell to put them back to sleep or Hold Person or do non lethal damage or whatever to make them helpless inside the mindscape. Coup de grace.

Or just do regular damage and hope they bleed out; add bleed effects and poison to help ensure they die.

They're only unharmed when they wake up if you choose the harmless mindscape option. You need to read the general mindscape rules. A harmful mindscape carries over all damage (and healing) that occurs inside even after you exit.


You could just use it to give the target the time of their life: for half an hour they're in a world where anything goes, anything is possible and there are no repercussions.


Third Mind wrote:


I see. I thought that dropping them to 0 HP just goes back to their body / the real world.

It doesn't seem to say they wouldn't be alive or injured when returning to their body. I guess I was thinking it just snapped them back to consciousness and they would go about their unharmed lives.

When you cast the spell you choose whether or not the mindscapes damage is real or not. If you set it to harmful, the person will return to their body on zero or fewer hit-points and be either dying or dead.


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My character uses it for to do all sorts of things. Murder imaginary copies of people, make out with imaginary copies of people, eat imaginary feasts, and so on. With another target, it's nice for clandestine meetings/discussions, interrogation, mental programming, scaring them by convincing them they've died and gone to an afterlife they were or weren't expecting, delivering "divine" messages, quiet murders or duels, recreating Inception out of genre, appearing more powerful than you are, putting on extravagant private plays, getting cool 3-D maps like they have in sci-fi, and interacting without risk of physical harm.

The Exchange

The first thought I had - and I blame this on my DM instincts - was its usefulness as a way of keeping captives quiet. We all know that in the unlikely event you take someone alive, they'll attempt to MacGyver their way out. One failed Will save can take care of that, since their entire daring escape will only have taken place in their minds. Which will be more than a little disheartening when you wake them up.

(For a little Matrix action, you can allow the captive to 'wake up', discover his escape was all just a dream, and not let on that he's still in a mindscape.)


simple answer you use mental masks to manipulate a corrupt king/ ruler into helping people and generally manipulate people in many ways


You cannot use Create Mindscape on a captured target since you probably won't have an unblocked path to that target.
Likewise, to use Create Mindscape to a sleeping target, you need that unblocked path, and thus, you could just Coup de Grace it.

See rules:

Quote:

Line of Effect

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

Create Mindscape is a tricky spell to use correctly.

If you just want to hold the person, or kill it in an isolated way, without an advantaging landscape, Instigate Psychic Duel does way better.
For Combat purposes, Create Mindscape is only worth if you can actualy create a "landscape" that is to your advantage... you can, for exemple, easily create a landscape preventing a warrior to come at you, and shoot arrows at you, but allowing you to cast your spells.

Create Mindscape can also be an useful tool of interrogation. You can create a land filled with lava scorpions, putting yourself in a safe place, while the subject of interrogation attempt to flee and suffer the stings... while you promise him to end this if he tells you what you want to know.

You can use Create Minscape for secret communication with someone you have a line of effect with... but honestly, Message and Telepathy are both better and cheaper for that purpose.

A funny way to use it, is as a training ground: use a spell to scry a place, then build a minscape so your teamate can explore a replica of the place, test strategies and ideas on how inflitrate/conquer it.
Not that useful, but it can be terribly fun roleplaying-wise.

Another fun way to use it is for negociation.
Pull someone you want to impress into a Mindscape that look like a gigantic golden palace, with delicious food, gorgeous women to serve the dishes... while you attempt your diplomacy checks.
If your DM is fair, he would give you a bonus for that.

Create Mindscape is one of those spells with no real "purpose" besides allowing you to put your imagination at work, in fact.


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Moonheart wrote:

You cannot use Create Mindscape on a captured target since you probably won't have an unblocked path to that target.

Likewise, to use Create Mindscape to a sleeping target, you need that unblocked path, and thus, you could just Coup de Grace it.
Create Mindscape wrote:
You don't need line of sight to draw the subject creature into the mindscape, but you must be aware of its presence within range. If you target an area with more than one sentient creature and you have never seen any of the creatures before (for example, if you know a group of soldiers is inside a barracks but you can't see them through the door), the subject of this spell is selected at random. If you have seen firsthand the creature you wish to target (continuing the example, if you spied the sergeant entering the room moments before), you can select it unerringly from among all the creatures.

The spell literally says otherwise. Unlike most spells, Create Mindscape does not require LoS or LoE.

Also, gg to prior poster for a 2 year necro.


True enough, my bad.

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