Ruling that because the entirety of the dragon is not in the radius, none of the dragon is affected, is like arguing that because the entire planet isn't in the radius of the effect, none of the dirt or stone around it can be affected.Actually, you have that turned around;
The dragon is not pulled in to the breach for the same reason the planet is not pulled in to the breach... they are both only partially within 10'.
As to "none of the dragon is affected"... I didn't say that either. Rather, I suggested that the dragon might get tossed around a bit... like the dirt in your example.
Nice hyperbole.
You gladly skipped over the part where I gave the synopsis that the rift only affects the bags and Creatures.
Tell me, is the Planet a creature?
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IT is if you follow the Green Faith or BECMI rules!
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I like to believe that the rules are intended to make some kind of sense rather than elevating exact phrasing over all else. If we DO want to follow exact phrasing then;
"If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."
So... by that there would be no carving of holes into mountainsides, no dirt sucked up, and indeed no impact on anything which isn't a 'creature'.
As to whether part or all of the 'creature' must be in range... it doesn't say. Does the entire creature have to be "within a 10-foot radius" or only part of it? Either is a possible interpretation of the actual written words.
So, setting aside exact phrasing I go next to logic. Mindless golems and undead are 'creatures'... so the effect isn't just on 'living' or 'sentient' matter. The text also says that creatures are "drawn" to the Astral Plane... implying some form of pull or other movement. If 'creatures' of various kinds are pulled in, presumably along with their equipment (as it should otherwise likely have been mentioned that all their gear is left behind), then despite the use of the word 'creatures' the effect would seem to be pulling in matter of all kinds... unless the magic somehow differentiates between inanimate 'creatures' and their 'equipment' vs other inanimate objects.
From there, I choose not to believe that the entire planet is swallowed... thus giving weight to the interpretation that the entire creature / object must be within range rather than just a portion of it.
But hey... rule it how you like. Just don't pretend it is any less a 'house rule' than any other interpretation.
so, okay, no hemispheres, I'll grant you.
As for parts of creatures, that's not even an argument. If your arm is drawn into the hole, you have a choice:
1) you are drawn in, because you are connected to your arm
2) we now have to invoke limb-severing rules which don't exist.
There's also the small problem of the fact that if you are within 10' of something, YOU are within 10', not just your limb. Ergo, if are within 10' of a Wall of fire, you take 2-12 damage. It doesn't matter if your whole body is, or just your arm...you take the damage.
On that basis, if any part of the dragon is within 10', it is going to get sucked in, because part of it being within 10' is the dragon being within 10, the effect doesn't chop things up. It's all or nothing.
The dragon gets sucked in. That's writ and RAW. Now, the circumstances were pure cheese, and it never should have happened, but that's a different argument.
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As for parts of creatures, that's not even an argument. If your arm is drawn into the hole, you have a choice:
1) you are drawn in, because you are connected to your arm
2) we now have to invoke limb-severing rules which don't exist.
3) You are not drawn in, because your arm is connected to your body and thus remains outside the gate with it
4) You pull your arm out5) Maybe the gate remains OPEN with your arm within (text says nothing about it closing)
Et cetera. You are stuck on the first interpretation that occurred to you. It is NOT the only one.
There's also the small problem of the fact that if you are within 10' of something, YOU are within 10', not just your limb./QUOTE]
If you reach through the window of a car to shake the driver's hand does that mean you are inside the car? If you paint a 10' radius circle on the ground and put a toe over the line are you 'within the circle'? If a caster uses Invisibility Sphere while standing on a planet sized creature, does the creature become invisible?
The term "creatures within" could refer to the entirety of the creatures or some portion. It is NOT unquestionably one or the other, and no amount of insisting on a single interpretation will make it so.
I guess this topic will see a lot of table variation then, since there are no rules about weaponized bags of holding.
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Pretty sure most GM's wouldn't have a problem with my developing a homebrew spell with a 45,000gp material component cost that forcefully sent enemies hurling to the astral plane...so why then is this such a big deal?
Soumds to me taht someone has made a powerful enemy. Pray that they never return from the Plane they were sent to. If they do, pray that they never fins you. Less you have one pissed off dragon on your hands.
If I werw the DM and you got exceptionally high rolls like that, then yes I would allow it. Just be careful about it in the future.
Me: You walk into the room and see a giant pissed off Wyrm that looks shockingly familiar. He glares at the group and speaks in a loud bellowing voice. "WHICH ONE OF YOY FILTHY CREATURES TRICKED ME WITH THAT BAG OF HOLDING NONSENSE?!" and Roll for initiative.
Have fun!
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Pretty sure most GM's wouldn't have a problem with my developing a homebrew spell with a 45,000gp material component cost that forcefully sent enemies hurling to the astral plane...so why then is this such a big deal?
Since there's a 8th level spell that can do that with a saving throw and no costly component, I'd easily allow such a spell.
Pretty sure most GM's wouldn't have a problem with my developing a homebrew spell with a 45,000gp material component cost that forcefully sent enemies hurling to the astral plane...so why then is this such a big deal?
Agreed. I love this idea. Everyone keeps talking about it being a boss killer, but it's not. The boss lives, completely unarmed, and the party just spent dang near most of its hoard to send it away for a bit.
Seems fine.
I were the GM I would allow a Knowledge (Arcana) for letting know to the character that some Great Wyrms are able to cast Limited Wish, and thus they can cast a Plane Shift, so making the whole idea a 45.000 gp nonsense.
Hahaha. This actually happened to my group once. We spent a lot of time developing what we considered a fool proof plan: Trap the dragon in a lightless cave, then hit it with a clay jug full of green slime. Lacking abilities that created ice or fire, and being in a cave with no sunlight, we figured there was nothing it would be able to do to save itself.
The dragon in question took one round worth of constitution damage from the slime, basically had an "oh s&~+!" moment, and then cast limited wish to remove the stuff. It then proceeded to eat the party.
All that research and planning down the drain with a single get-out-of-jail-free card.
I were the GM I would allow a Knowledge (Arcana) for letting know to the character that some Great Wyrms are able to cast Limited Wish, and thus they can cast a Plane Shift, so making the whole idea a 45.000 gp nonsense.Hahaha. This actually happened to my group once. We spent a lot of time developing what we considered a fool proof plan: Trap the dragon in a lightless cave, then hit it with a clay jug full of green slime. Lacking abilities that created ice or fire, and being in a cave with no sunlight, we figured there was nothing it would be able to do to save itself.
The dragon in question took one round worth of constitution damage from the slime, basically had an "oh s+$$!" moment, and then cast limited wish to remove the stuff. It then proceeded to eat the party.
All that research and planning down the drain with a single get-out-of-jail-free card.
The only thing missing from this plan is an anti-magic field.
Soumds to me taht someone has made a powerful enemy. Pray that they never return from the Plane they were sent to. If they do, pray that they never fins you. Less you have one pissed off dragon on your hands.
If I werw the DM and you got exceptionally high rolls like that, then yes I would allow it. Just be careful about it in the future.
Me: You walk into the room and see a giant pissed off Wyrm that looks shockingly familiar. He glares at the group and speaks in a loud bellowing voice. "WHICH ONE OF YOY FILTHY CREATURES TRICKED ME WITH THAT BAG OF HOLDING NONSENSE?!" and Roll for initiative.
Have fun!
LoL
I would never have an elder dragon be that nice, or that straightforward. To take a red great wyrm as an example: Int 22, Wis 23 and nearly a millennia of experience. He's going to know everything about the PC's before he acts, and it won't start with a direct confrontation or the revelation that he is targeting them. Revenge will be slow, painful, and involve stripping them of everything they own or care about before bringing them to their knees and killing them.
As the GM, I would have to thank my players for supplying me with a major plot device :)