[Race Builder] custom weaknesses, how much penalty would you suggest?

[Artemis Moonstar]

Finagling up a player race for a campaign in my setting. Got a player who's rather "religious" towards the "balance" in the ARG's race builder, so rather than pull down Rule 0 with this fellow (do that enough, and I've known this guy for years so can't make him walk without undesirable repercussions), figure I'll actually give RP values to some custom weaknesses.

1) -2 vs sonic. I'm figuring -2 RP given that sonic effects is actually rather commonplace in my setting, like a standard elemental weakness. Though, in general, I'm thinking a -1 given the rarity of sonic effects.

2) -4 penalty when attacking with manufactured weapons. This is in addition to the penalty from non-proficiency or being an improvised weapon. I want to say this is a -4 RP, but it has been suggested it should cost more (given the amount of work it would take to overcome it).

So, suggestions?

[Bob Bob Bob]

1. This is -2 saves v sonic? Because that's very different from +2 sonic damage per dice, -2 sonic damage per dice, or whatever other possibilities there are. Probably worth somewhere between 0 and -1, like -1/2 RP. It is entirely game dependent though, so if sonic is more prevalent then -1 RP is probably most appropriate. Remember, vulnerability (that is, +50% more damage) is worth -2 RP, there's no way a penalty to saves (that you can make up with stats and gear) is worth the same amount.

2. Someone is trying to con you. Seriously. -4 to manufactured weapon attacks means absolutely nothing to spellcasters. In fact, -4 to weapon attack rolls (which is more severe than what you have) is an oracle curse. One that is "overcome" by giving them a bunch of AoE spells. By making it manufactured weapons only you don't stop natural attack builds, ray casters, or anything but beatsticks and archers. This is worth at most -1 RP, but I'd never include it in the first place. It's a blatant "restriction you can ignore", like ASF on a fighter.

[Kudaku]

Have to agree with Bob on the second point, the weapon penalty is absolutely crippling for a martial class and a nonissue for any character that relies on spells or natural attacks. If he's planning to play a character who doesn't use weapons then it's basically free race points.

While I don't find the race builder completely useless, I find it's best to treat it as a guideline for GMs to tinker with - I'd be extremely reluctant to let a player brew up his own race. It's exceedingly easy to optimise the race builder as it is, adding homebrew weaknesses on top of that really only exacerbates the issue.

All that said, it might be a good idea to post the complete race so we can see how it would all fit together. The more people that eyeball the race, the more people get the chance to spot any flaws. ☺

[Lost In Limbo]

I agree with Kudaku. The real danger of the race builder is in how the separate abilities can synergize, giving races power far outside what the point value would suggest.

A full look at the race in question would lead to much better informed advice.