Lending rerolls to other players


Pathfinder Society

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2/5

It´s oficially allowed?

I´ve read, and even being lent one reroll, but in my last F2F game I´ve been told it´s not allowed. To go on we asked our VO and accept blindly his decission (read: NO), but I agree with him to ask about it.

Specific situation if it matters:

I bought to character folios for a freind and I. As he couldn´t come to play I keep his folio to let it to another player in case of necessity.
2 of my player were blinded and I offered them the reroll. I was told I can´t lend it. I doubt it, so we asked our VO who says you can´t do it because there´s a GM boon which aloows it plus the other uses your starts as modifier.
As my last argument I asked about the difference about having lend the folio before starting to play so nobody knows who bought it, or lending it in the middle of the game. The answers was "before is ok, in the middle no".
It has no sense for me due previous experiences, but without more reasons to give I accepted the ruling and politely said I´ll ask in the forums for insight.

It didn´t affect a lot, but I´ll like an answer because being able to lend it or not depending if I´m playing F2F or PBP it´s illogical, IMHO. And I feel I´m cheated/cheating, which I´ll prefer to avoid.

Thanks in advance.

4/5

If you strip off your shirt and the other player puts it on, I'll allow it :)

4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

I don't personally allow lending of rerolls, but I allow lending of items that allow rerolls.

For instance if I'm a player and I'm wearing my VC shirt I can't give a player that reroll (especially not with my 4 stars), because I'm not going to give him my shirt.

But if I have my shirt and my character folio, I will give the player my folio for use during the session so that they can use it to get their own reroll.

I generally prefer for the folios to be lent out before they're needed, and of course on reroll per item max, no matter how many time sit gets passed around the table.

5/5

Technically it's not allowed, either in PbP or FtF. Some people allow it, in different ways (see above), but there is no requirement to do so and it would be simpler if everyone did it the same way. A reroll is not a right.

It is much harder to adjudicate in PbP, of course. There will always be variation between PbP and FtF, though, there's no way to avoid it.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

I imagine it's intended to not be possible. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a reward on the GM Reward chronicle.

Shadow Lodge

Sure you can.

PFSGtOP wrote:
As a way of rewarding players who show their support for the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign by purchasing and wearing special shirts featuring campaign insignia, faction logos, or Pathfinder branding, a player wearing any of the shirts listed below during a Pathfinder Society event may reroll one d20 roll during the course of that scenario. This reroll must happen before the original result is determined and the player must use the reroll result, even if it is lower. Game Masters are also invited to wear Pathfinder Society Organized Play shirts, but gain no additional benefits other than supporting Pathfinder.

Assuming you actually make the reroll rather than "allowing them to", it's perfectly fine. The guide does not specify that the reroll needs to be for your character's actions.

Being that the intent is clearly to reward players who purchase certain items, I'd even say it's much more in the spirit to reroll for others than to "lend" your purchases to others.

5/5 5/55/55/5

You can take my folio

But you can never take MY REROLL!!!


The GM stars Student of Swords second boon would imply you normally can't.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

dragonhunterq wrote:
The GM stars Student of Swords second boon would imply you normally can't.

The way that reads to me is that you grant the bonus to the reroll that you get when you gain stars. For example if you are a five star GM you are able to actually give the 1d20+5 that you normally would get with the reroll.

Shadow Lodge

DM Star Boon wrote:
Marcos Farabellus has taught you special techniques for acting with tactical precision even when working with an eclectic team. You may spend your free reroll (Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play 26) to allow another player to reroll one d20 roll using your GM star bonus, even if she has already used her own free reroll. In addition, once per scenario as a swift action you may coordinate your tactics with an ally within 30 feet. You treat your ally as though she possessed the same teamwork feats as you for the purpose of determining whether you receive a bonus from your teamwork feats; your ally gains the same benefit with respect to you. In neither you nor your ally has any teamwork feats, you each gain a +2 bonus to CMD while adjacent to one another. This ability lasts five rounds.

The way I read it, is that it allows you to outright give your Reroll over, including you Star Bonus, and also allows them to Reroll if they have already used theirs. Additionally, you also get the unrelated ability for Teamwork Feats or boost your CMD.

Normally, you can not receive more than one free Reroll per session, regardless of how many purchases you have and bring. The Boon potentially allows that.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I allow people to, for example, loan folios or magic re-roll shirts before the game begins, but I wouldn't allow a player to pull out a folio or a shirt and give it to another player during a combat.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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I've seen folios lent at critical moments and no heartbreak ensued.

Silver Crusade

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I've seen folios lent at critical moments and no heartbreak ensued.

I allow it as a GM. As a player, I offer to loan my folio for rerolls (I'm usually wearing a shirt when playing), but I always ask the GM's permission, since I know some won't allow it.


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I'm inclined to allow it if the player being gifted has no re roll of her own. A player can only get one reroll per session, either of her own, or a lent one.

Shadow Lodge

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I'm not sure why it would really be an issue. If you hand out a re-roll, that's one you don't have for yourself.

It should either encourage that player to buy a shirt/folio for next time, or the initial player may have already spent the extra $$ on behalf of others. Everybody wins.

For an online game, this sort of thing relies completely on trust, so while I'd still allow passing along a re-roll, I'd limit it to one re-roll per player regardless of how many shirts/folios that player had purchased, otherwise it'd open the door to cheating too easily. In other words, if you "pass along" your re-roll, you don't get one yourself.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Avatar-1 wrote:
For an online game, this sort of thing relies completely on trust, so while I'd still allow passing along a re-roll, I'd limit it to one re-roll per player regardless of how many shirts/folios that player had purchased, otherwise it'd open the door to cheating too easily.

You're supposed to limit it to one per person anyway, per the Guide:

Quote:
No player may receive more than one free reroll per session.

4/5

The guide is vague enough that it can be interpreted either way. I wouldn't fault a GM for ruling either way.

However... I may be one of those GMs who is more on the "loose end" (if you can call it that) of the reroll rules here, although I don't wish to elaborate on how to subsequently be judged.

3/5

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Chris Mortika wrote:
I allow people to, for example, loan folios or magic re-roll shirts before the game begins, but I wouldn't allow a player to pull out a folio or a shirt and give it to another player during a combat.

This is what I do. When playing I generally wear a reroll shirt, and if so, I lend my folio to someone who doesn't have a reroll. I've found it enjoyable to flavor it based on who I'm playing: Nivi Rhombodazzle's priestess gives out blessings, my harrow-reader predicts good fortune, my alchemist brews up a good-luck infusion, etc.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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I have no problem allowing the lending of rerolls. I hand out my GM reroll all the time to newbies. However, campaign service coins specifically allow you to also gift your star bonus. So that should not be allowed unless you have a campaign service coin.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

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As a GM I allow it. Usually people want to keep their own reroll, but they will give it to someone else if the other player would be in dire straits otherwise.
I find it fits in perfectly with the 'cooperate' part of the society. Its a potential sacrifice of the player lending out the re-roll and it really fits in the game.

2/5

Table variance then.

It´s a pity it´s hard to find a shirt in my country and I can´t try the "strip the shirt to lend the reroll". I think more than one local GM will allow this, and even encourage it, only for the laughs.

Thanks to all.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

I'm not super fond of people "stocking up" on the lendable rerolls though. What I mean is wearing a shirt for yourself and then lending out a folio, or just carrying multiple folios. I'm not exactly forbidding it, but I think sacrificing your own reroll to save someone else is just more.. exciting? Noble?

2/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm not super fond of people "stocking up" on the lendable rerolls though. What I mean is wearing a shirt for yourself and then lending out a folio, or just carrying multiple folios. I'm not exactly forbidding it, but I think sacrificing your own reroll to save someone else is just more.. exciting? Noble?

To justify myself a little, I wasn´t "stocking". I bought 2; one for me and one as a bait for my friend; once he get´s more involved I´m planning to gift it to him.

But real life appears and he couldn´t come to the game. In the game two players get blinded in the last fight, which more or less means not participate and I thought "I can help with that".

Silver Crusade

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As I said, I usually wear a shirt and have a folio with me, to donate for others to use. As I see it, that folio wouldn't come out of my bag if I'm not allowed to lend it out. This way, I'm actively advertising folios to the other players, so I'm helping Paizo advertise their products and sell more stuff. That is part of the intent of rerolls, isn't it?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

I can totally see the good intentions. I just don't really like it.

Silver Crusade

Andrew Christian wrote:
I have no problem allowing the lending of rerolls. I hand out my GM reroll all the time to newbies. However, campaign service coins specifically allow you to also gift your star bonus. So that should not be allowed unless you have a campaign service coin.

GM Reroll?

5/5

GMs don't get rerolls.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Because you add your GM stars to it, the term GM reroll has popped up. Not accurate, but catchy nonetheless.

5/5

Ah, got it.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

I've done it, typically for new and young players. A bad hit from a bad guy isn't always what you want a new 7 years old player to have on his first play thru.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Because you add your GM stars to it, the term GM reroll has popped up. Not accurate, but catchy nonetheless.

Or offering my reroll to a player from the GM chair.


Players first session, just bought the CRB and wanted to play. They needed a reroll or there character would have died in a lame level 1 fashion. I gave them my reroll, i dont think anyone had or would have a problem with me doing this.


I would ask that that lending rerolls be officially barred. What I have experienced is players putting pressure on other players to give up their reroll for someone else. This is, in my opinion, unacceptable. By removing the option to give/share rerolls, you remove any social pressure for someone to give up their reroll for someone else.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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I have not seen any pressure to give up a reroll.

I think giving up my reroll should be allowed. I think lending someone my character folio should be allowed.

If there has been problems than reasonable guidelines can be established.

But to ban outright I don't think is the solution.

Scarab Sages 3/5 Venture-Agent

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At the very least the GM should be able to offer his re-roll to players so that situations like the example with the new player with a level 1 character can be offered a.chance at avoiding an early death. After all we want to create positive experiences for these players. In that situation even if the re-roll fails, and the character does die. Hopefully the helpfulness demonstrated by a member of the community will cause the player to come back,.and even buy their own folio now that they see the potential usefulness of having one.


Zach Davis wrote:
At the very least the GM should be able to offer his re-roll to players so that situations like the example with the new player with a level 1 character can be offered a.chance at avoiding an early death. After all we want to create positive experiences for these players. In that situation even if the re-roll fails, and the character does die. Hopefully the helpfulness demonstrated by a member of the community will cause the player to come back,.and even buy their own folio now that they see the potential usefulness of having one.

I would argue that the inability to share rerolls will generate far more folio/t-shirt sales.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

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Basically everyone around here has a folio. The people that do not are also the new and/or itinerant players. Or, alternately, they're the people who go to major cons and get fun purple volunteer shirts. Or a campaign coin...

I haven't seen rerolls shared except for new players, and it usually involves a folio giveaway or something similar. If a new player's first character gets the axe, they're more likely to quit than they are to invest more money in something they didn't have fun with.

Just in my opinion and experience, anyway.

1/5 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've seen folks drop a Folio still in shrink-wrap onto the table and declare "A WILD Folio appears! Do you (r)eroll, (l)eave it, or (s)ave it?"

Essentially tapping into the community spirit of 'Explore, Report, Cooperate'.

Kind of neat how that works, right?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I've seen folks drop a Folio still in shrink-wrap onto the table and declare "A WILD Folio appears! Do you (r)eroll, (l)eave it, or (s)ave it?"

Essentially tapping into the community spirit of 'Explore, Report, Cooperate'.

Kind of neat how that works, right?

I should pick up extra folios for this purpose. ^_^

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, I'm thinking of picking up a messenger bag, going to get a volunteer shirt for working part of GenCon, so that's three for me (of which I can only use one)...

Table of six, that's three folks taken care of, so... three more to cover my bases, I think, or other means.


Terminalmancer wrote:
If a new player's first character gets the axe, they're more likely to quit than they are to invest more money in something they didn't have fun with.

This gets bandied about whenever it seems convenient. Yet, I am not sure how you substantiate that with actual statistics. How do you know that person would have come back regardless? What about all the people whose first character doesn't die and they don't come back?

Awhile back, someone posted an anecdote which completely demonstrated the opposite. The newbs to PFS got killed and said that the were happy to see the game wasn't a total softball as they were long time RPGer's.

If were a newb to PFS, I might get turned off if GMs and players were constantly bailing people out from making bad choice or bad rolls. As it is, I think there is too much softballing in PFS, but given the range of player focus or skill in any given game, I'm reluctant to complain. I wish the game where a little more hardcore, but then I'd want the players to be up to the challenge and many of them simply don't want that kind of stress. I can empathize.

What I do think is true is the players who have a bad experience aren't likely to return. But as I've seen many five star GMs post that death is not always a bad experience.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What a player tells you at their table and what they take *from* the table are two different things.

In a different campaign I had a player at my table whose character essentially committed suicide by an act that was entirely their choice, and they were given many, many different options and choices to avoid it with no negative ramifications for either themselves or their party.

They still chose the death route. After verifying three times that the player was certain about this, they proceeded to kill their character.

They seemed accepting of the fact. Even spent time helping the person work out their next character after the slot.

And then a month later I had a far worse iteration of that campaign's leadership drop on me and the Head GM for the event I was running for fall on me like a load of bricks for 'killing his character'.

It was not a pleasant experience and it made me stop GMing for a while.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

N N 959 wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
If a new player's first character gets the axe, they're more likely to quit than they are to invest more money in something they didn't have fun with.

This gets bandied about whenever it seems convenient. Yet, I am not sure how you substantiate that with actual statistics. How do you know that person would have come back regardless? What about all the people whose first character doesn't die and they don't come back?

Awhile back, someone posted an anecdote which completely demonstrated the opposite. The newbs to PFS got killed and said that the were happy to see the game wasn't a total softball as they were long time RPGer's.

If were a newb to PFS, I might get turned off if GMs and players were constantly bailing people out from making bad choice or bad rolls. As it is, I think there is too much softballing in PFS, but given the range of player focus or skill in any given game, I'm reluctant to complain. I wish the game where a little more hardcore, but then I'd want the players to be up to the challenge and many of them simply don't want that kind of stress. I can empathize.

What I do think is true is the players who have a bad experience aren't likely to return. But as I've seen many five star GMs post that death is not always a bad experience.

I have met many more casual players than I have hardcore players like yourself. (Using those words for lack of a better idea.) It's especially tough when you've got only one character and your friends just got to 3-7 tier and you're stuck with a level 1 again. That doesn't mean they don't eventually get some system mastery and start complaining about how easy the scenarios are, but it sure isn't something that happens your first game in. Again, that's just in my experience.

If you're looking for objective proof, though, then neither one of us has it until we have a series of double-blind controlled studies on how character death impacts PFS participation, and I don't think those are going to happen. I think you're probably stuck with folks like me bringing out anecdotal evidence that doesn't match your anecdotal evidence!


Well, I don't think there is any debate that retention for a first time player is going to be higher if that player survives, all other things being equal. The question is to what extent and at what cost? Instituting a system where we lend rerolls to save 1st level characters from dying who rightfully should, isn't something I'm in favor of. Giving 1st level characters a "get-out-of-death" card is something I'd much prefer over social pressure on people to give up their rerolls.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

N N 959 wrote:
Well, I don't think there is any debate that retention for a first time player is going to be higher if that player survives, all other things being equal. The question is to what extent and at what cost? Instituting a system where we lend rerolls to save 1st level characters from dying who rightfully should, isn't something I'm in favor of. Giving 1st level characters a "get-out-of-death" card is something I'd much prefer over social pressure on people to give up their rerolls.

I guess since I've never seen any sort of pressure to donate a reroll, it's not really something I think of as a problem. But that's sort of how these things go, I guess--we look at our own personal experiences to try to determine how likely something is to happen.

And man, are diehard and resolve trap options. I've only got one character with diehard, a cleric, and even then it's turned out to be more of a bad idea than I'd expected.

Grand Lodge

Terminalmancer wrote:
N N 959 wrote:
Well, I don't think there is any debate that retention for a first time player is going to be higher if that player survives, all other things being equal. The question is to what extent and at what cost? Instituting a system where we lend rerolls to save 1st level characters from dying who rightfully should, isn't something I'm in favor of. Giving 1st level characters a "get-out-of-death" card is something I'd much prefer over social pressure on people to give up their rerolls.

I guess since I've never seen any sort of pressure to donate a reroll, it's not really something I think of as a problem. But that's sort of how these things go, I guess--we look at our own personal experiences to try to determine how likely something is to happen.

And man, are diehard and resolve trap options. I've only got one character with diehard, a cleric, and even then it's turned out to be more of a bad idea than I'd expected.

I've witnessed, more than once, the opposite scenario where a player is the victim of a freak SOD, fails his save, and another player offers his re-roll, fails, and then another player offers HIS re-roll, but, of course is told that only one per character per game. The Northern Maryland PFS community is a rather selfless bunch. ;-)

Lantern Lodge 5/5

Around here, there are a few players who have a handful of extra folios, and they are given away as gifts to new players.

"It might save your pregen's life this seek, and you can out your actual character in it when you comeback!"

But this is done at the start of a game, not as the fatal moment is occurring.


I know a lot of us have a small stack of purple paizo shirts from GenCon. They make wonderful loaner rerolls for new players that show up. Just hand them out before the game starts to the new players.


Just to be clear, I personally have no issue with handing out folios or T-shirts. However, a more holistic view might question the impact on Paizo. Does loaning folios/t-shirts out at a game encourage players to buy their own or discourage them from being prepared? I don't know.

As an aside on the subject of newbie player retention, PFS should offer a boon to anyone who loses their XXXX-1 character at 1st level (or maybe up until 6th level). The boon should only be granted in case your X-1 character dies and it should be geared around incentivizing players to build another character. For example, get 200 extra gp. Or start with one masterworks weapon, etc.

I think this serves several functions: 1) It reduces the need for GMs to softball; 2) It makes an early death more palatable; and 3) it increases the likelihood the player will keep playing. Perhaps I'll make a separate post with this suggestion.

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