So why make Golarion disappear?


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Shadow Lodge

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Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Liberty's Edge

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JoelF847 wrote:
It was explained in the seminar that this was to make it so nothing in Starfinder will ever "reveal the future of Golarion".

Which makes sense... except that if there are gods named Rovagug, Iomedae, or Zon-Kthon around then we know certain things about the future of Golarion.

I think they'd have been better served not telling us that it was Golarion's solar system and having people notice on their own that many of the names of things sound similar and the nature of the planets in the system is consistent but... why is there a space station where Golarion should be!? Wait, is the 'Infinity Core' the Starstone!? Is this the future? The past? Alternate dimension? Alternate timeline?

Pinning it down to possible future timeline from the start leaves it still tied enough to 'modern Golarion' for there to be some future implications coloring views of the past.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

You see Golarion is actually an ancient form of the Gallifrey.

And now everything should make sense.

Yeah, I totally thought of this the other day. Apparently there was a "time war" where Golarion got locked out of space and time by the gods and they collectively used their powers for a memory wipe.

Now we just need a time-travel AP with Starfinder's Doctor. :P


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It's so we don't know the ending of PF stories.

It prevent PF adventures from feeling futile since the home setting is just missing, not destroyed.


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*Gods take a look at current state of Golarion, wherein dozens of world-shattering adventure paths are simultaneously taking place*

"What are you guys DOING with our planet?! You can't have nice things. We're taking this away until you're mature enough to handle it."


Chris Mortika wrote:

My first question is, how long ago did Golarion vanish? Is it within the lifespan of anything current?

I wonder how Groetus is doin'.

Here's hoping they go with "In the far future everyone uses the Stardate calendar system". That lets Paizo keep the time gap vague. I'm penciling in 550 years in Golarions future to run an "in-between" campaign. So for my home Golarion more than 550 years exists between the two settings. They could even start the date from the end of the amnesia period.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
It was explained in the seminar that this was to make it so nothing in Starfinder will ever "reveal the future of Golarion".
Which makes sense... except that if there are gods named Rovagug, Iomedae, or Zon-Kthon around then we know certain things about the future of Golarion.

Okay, I understand why Rovagug would need to be removed from the Starfinder setting (since Golarion is his prison), but what would the continued existence of Iomedae or Zon-Kuthon give away?

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David knott 242 wrote:
Okay, I understand why Rovagug would need to be removed from the Starfinder setting (since Golarion is his prison), but what would the continued existence of Iomedae or Zon-Kuthon give away?

If Zon-Kuthon is still around then we know Shelyn never succeeded in healing him. If Iomedae is still around, in the same role, then it seems likely that Aroden never returned/reclaimed his status as patron of Humanity. Et cetera.

Basically, the gods are part of the Golarion setting... so if ANY of the same gods, not just those three examples, are active (or inactive) in Starfinder then, by default, Starfinder will have revealed some part of "the future of Golarion".


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Potential future of Golarion. :)


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Tacticslion wrote:
Potential future of Golarion. :)

Unless the player base develops lifespans in the millennia range, none of us will be here long enough to argue the point.


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shadram wrote:
I can think of plenty of reasons, many of them already stated above. But another is that it lets them use the outline in Distant Worlds but also allows it to be a brand new setting. If Golarion was there, people would just want more details on Golarion in the future setting. This way, they can keep the people of Golarion (based on Absalom Station) but focus on the stranger, more alien worlds they've created.

Yeah this is another good point. Keeping it in a solar system where all the basic worlds and many races have been fleshed out means less work for the writers. Also satisfies people who want more content specifically on these worlds and hope to use Starfinder content to flesh out Distant Worlds details in Pathfinder.

Dark Archive

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It's a purposeful mystery and Paizo will never answer it. It's the central puzzle in the same way as we'll never get a canon answer for Earthfall or the mechanics of the Test of the Starstone. Golarion's disappearance is the McGuffin.

And I like that nobody knows. Some of the Elves of Castroval must have been alive, but they don't know. The gods won't answer or don't know. It's a mystery and a total lacuna even among the most powerful beings ever to be on Golarion. The immortal heroes of Wrath of the Righteous for instance don't know - either because they jumped planet and forgot or stayed on Golarion and *might be unaware the planet has even gone missing*.


thistledown wrote:

Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Only if prior to it's disappearance, Golarion was reviled as one of the great universe destroying forces locked in battle with another one. And given that the Creative Director is sick and tired of Dr. Who references, he'd probably stamp out any he'd find.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Potential future of Golarion. :)
Unless the player base develops lifespans in the millennia range, none of us will be here long enough to argue the point.

]]

Sun orchid elixir beer helmet?

Scarab Sages

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
thistledown wrote:

Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Only if prior to it's disappearance, Golarion was reviled as one of the great universe destroying forces locked in battle with another one.

Well, it is... From a certain point of view.

As the prison of Rovagug, Golarion is very much locked in battle with a universe destroying force.


Imbicatus wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
thistledown wrote:

Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Only if prior to it's disappearance, Golarion was reviled as one of the great universe destroying forces locked in battle with another one.

Well, it is... From a certain point of view.

As the prison of Rovagug, Golarion is very much locked in battle with a universe destroying force.

Seems to be a pretty quiet one, for the most part. It's not near the situation where the 8th Doctor was reviled by his last would-be Companion simply for possessing a TARDIS. A reaction he took so badly that he chose to die with her.


For now I am going to have Golarion wiped from memory, not really knowledge of its existence, but how it came to no longer be around.

And I will also probably push Starfinder 10k years in the future, and have the setting far enough away, unless it contradicts Star Finder lore too much, that nobody really knows how to get back to it.


It is already strange to me that so many concepts and cultures from "thousands of years ago" seem to thrive in this future. The name of the base station just happening to be a major city from the ancient past, there was talk of hellknight battlecruisers. I am glad that they have a huge mystery as to what happened to Golarion and dont have to bother explaining several thousand years of history that conveniently leave all the major political powers still in tact in recognizable forms with constant hurricane still there and a world wound still wounding.

Although, thinking about it now... it would be hilarious if the far future Golarion powered all energy demands through through a system of wind turbines ringing the Eye of Abendego. No. No, it is for the better that Golarion is gone.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
If Iomedae is still around, in the same role, then it seems likely that Aroden never returned/reclaimed his status as patron of Humanity.

James Jacobs has been very emphatic that Aroden is dead, not missing. Not only dead, but already been judged and sent on by Pharasma past the possibility of resurrection. The mystery has never been where Aroden is but what killed him.

That said, I expect (based on nothing but pure speculation) that it will be the elder and newer gods that survive in Starfinder: the ancient ones like Desna who have stood the test of time and the new ones like the ascended AI. I would expect that the handful of gods prominent in the Inner Sea in the Pathfinder era (Norgorber, Iomedae, Cayden, etc.) would have passed their relevancy date, and that the dwarven/halfling/elven gods would be largely absent along with their populations.


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So your current Pathfinder society character can't leave a bottle of brandy for your Starfinder Corps character to pick up?

"10,000 year old brandy! Now that's the GOOD stuff!

Silver Crusade

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My rule over the Killocracy of Akiton had better still be remembered with that 100 foot high statue with flames for eyes.


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Yeah, he isn't coming back.


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Torbyne wrote:
It is already strange to me that so many concepts and cultures from "thousands of years ago" seem to thrive in this future. The name of the base station just happening to be a major city from the ancient past, there was talk of hellknight battlecruisers. I am glad that they have a huge mystery as to what happened to Golarion and dont have to bother explaining several thousand years of history that conveniently leave all the major political powers still in tact in recognizable forms with constant hurricane still there and a world wound still wounding.

Well, Golarion's history always seemed pretty stagnant to me anyway. With a few major exceptions, the world has looked roughly the same for thousands of years at a time anyway, so I guess it's not that much of a stretch.

Liberty's Edge

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Joana wrote:
James Jacobs has been very emphatic that Aroden is dead

Yes, but 'dead' isn't always permanent on Golarion. There are disparate hints and theories (not to mention a module) about how he might be able to come back. I doubt they mean for any of those to happen, but the possibility exists.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

So your current Pathfinder society character can't leave a bottle of brandy for your Starfinder Corps character to pick up?

"10,000 year old brandy! Now that's the GOOD stuff!

Brandy, schmandy. I'm making a deposit with the Bank of Abadar into a compound interest account. Quibblemuch XXXIV is going to be RICH!


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Potential future of Golarion. :)
Unless the player base develops lifespans in the millennia range, none of us will be here long enough to argue the point.

I'm not following. Starfinder the setting isn't being published thousands of years from now. Path and Star will exist simultaneously as games. The arguments have clearly already started.

Its a setting with a multitude of immortals with their own agendas (including fiends and celestials and other outsiders), and the idea that the disparate array of gods could act with a singularity of purpose, agreement and absolute silence on the same is mindbendingly absurd.

Someone (if not multiple legions) in that multitude would have the knowledge and ability to spill the beans.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
Joana wrote:
James Jacobs has been very emphatic that Aroden is dead
Yes, but 'dead' isn't always permanent on Golarion. There are disparate hints and theories (not to mention a module) about how he might be able to come back. I doubt they mean for any of those to happen, but the possibility exists.

Oh come on. He was just a god, not an X-man. Dude's not coming back.


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Pharasma, Lady of Graves wrote:
Yeah, he isn't coming back.

If I remember correctly, none of the Gods who've died over the millennia have returned, such as the basketfull who died sealing Rovagug and the two or three that got nailed trying to prevent or mitigate Earthfall.


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Torbyne wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Joana wrote:
James Jacobs has been very emphatic that Aroden is dead
Yes, but 'dead' isn't always permanent on Golarion. There are disparate hints and theories (not to mention a module) about how he might be able to come back. I doubt they mean for any of those to happen, but the possibility exists.
Oh come on. He was just a god, not an X-man. Dude's not coming back.

Well, since he was apparently processed by Pharasma, he IS back. He's just either been reincarnated as some mortal or shuffled off to have his soul wiped and transmuted into a nameless Planetar or something.


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maybe we're all aroden in purgatory


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Sundakan wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Joana wrote:
James Jacobs has been very emphatic that Aroden is dead
Yes, but 'dead' isn't always permanent on Golarion. There are disparate hints and theories (not to mention a module) about how he might be able to come back. I doubt they mean for any of those to happen, but the possibility exists.
Oh come on. He was just a god, not an X-man. Dude's not coming back.
Well, since he was apparently processed by Pharasma, he IS back. He's just either been reincarnated as some mortal or shuffled off to have his soul wiped and transmuted into a nameless Planetar or something.

Dead gods deserve more creativity then that, don't you think.

unconsciously caresses the shoulder of Echo of Lost Divinity.

Silver Crusade

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I blame Dr. Manhattan

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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In another dimension, "Golarion" was known by the name "Abeir."


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Not even close, at all.


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Look people, it's really very simple:

Golarion was removed to make way for a hyperspatial express route through the star system.

You've got to make hyperspatial express routes! Without them, we would have to muck about navigating around all sorts of celestial objects! Imagine!

>:)


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The plans were clearly on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.' It's Golarion's own fault for not looking.

Dark Archive

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Well it does occur to me that if there going with the possible future angle then the need to remove the planet to prevent spoilers excuse dosent hold much water since just because a set of events happend in that timeline dosent mean they would have happend in others.

Also I strongly suspect the new A'I god may be a certain Iron gods character.

Scarab Sages

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The Vogons were so moved by the completion of the hyperspatial express route that they composed the greatest opus of the species. A single poem that was 1,342,585,586,234,239,789,405,230,385 verses long and sent by direct mindlink to every sentient being in the universe.

This act caused the gods to act in concert to drive the Vogons to extinction and then create the gap to remove all memories of the most tragic event in the universe.


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If there's an enormous great mystery (a disappearing planet with nobody remembering what happened or indeed anything that happened over an indeterminate time period) it's likely that everyone in universe will have crazy conspiracy theories and lots of exploratory missions to find the answer.

It's going to annoy me, I'm sure (I suspect it's the new "we know the answer but we're not going to tell you" thing which just irrationally irritates me) but I would guess it allows them to portray a more mysterious universe - and hence one where a theme of exploration is more thematically appropriate.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
thistledown wrote:

Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Only if prior to it's disappearance, Golarion was reviled as one of the great universe destroying forces locked in battle with another one. And given that the Creative Director is sick and tired of Dr. Who references, he'd probably stamp out any he'd find.

James Jacobs isn't a Dr. Who fan, but he has only minor involvement in this at best, from what he has stated in the last few days. James Sutter's like or dislike of Dr. Who is what is important.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

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Actually, ERIK MONA's like or dislike of Doctor Who is what's important here.

I'm also the guy who came up with the "Golarion is missing" angle.

Make of that what you will. :)


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In addition James Sutter is listed as Creative Director for this effort:

We hope you're as excited about Starfinder as we are, and that you'll join us as we boldly go where Paizo's never gone before!

James L. Sutter
Creative Director

Oddly James Jacobs doesn't seem to be heavily involved in this or the Strange Aeons AP. I have to say I'm disappointed to hear that. I can't imagine the Crimson Throne redo is taking all his time so I wonder what else is in store?

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

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James Jacobs is busy creative directing _Pathfinder_ and working on a passel of sekrit projekts.


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I think the reasoning is rather simple. Because the wise and benevolent god Razmir said so. Any other opinion is probably just heresy.


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quibblemuch wrote:
Brandy, schmandy. I'm making a deposit with the Bank of Abadar into a compound interest account. Quibblemuch XXXIV is going to be RICH!

Too bad about the economic crash of 4808. That Varisian real-estate bubble on compound derivatives will get you every time, and nobody could come to an agreement by which the Korvosan, Magnimaran, and Riddleportian governments would bail out the Bank of Abadar . . . .

Voss wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Potential future of Golarion. :)
Unless the player base develops lifespans in the millennia range, none of us will be here long enough to argue the point.

I'm not following. Starfinder the setting isn't being published thousands of years from now. Path and Star will exist simultaneously as games. The arguments have clearly already started.

Its a setting with a multitude of immortals with their own agendas (including fiends and celestials and other outsiders), and the idea that the disparate array of gods could act with a singularity of purpose, agreement and absolute silence on the same is mindbendingly absurd.

Someone (if not multiple legions) in that multitude would have the knowledge and ability to spill the beans.

Maybe they do spill the beans, but you can't find 2 people who have beans to spill who spill the SAME beans . . . .


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Erik Mona wrote:

Actually, ERIK MONA's like or dislike of Doctor Who is what's important here.

I'm also the guy who came up with the "Golarion is missing" angle.

Make of that what you will. :)

How much fun would it be to get to write one of the first AP instalments?

Chance of a lifetime, I reckon. :o


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Because doing it to the statue of liberty had already been done before?

Scarab Sages

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An echo of what happened to Tekumel, in the Empire of the Petal Throne rpg (1974).


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Maybe the gods won't tell where Golarion went because they don't know, either...

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Actually, ERIK MONA's like or dislike of Doctor Who is what's important here.

I'm also the guy who came up with the "Golarion is missing" angle.

Make of that what you will. :)

How much fun would it be to get to write one of the first AP instalments?

Chance of a lifetime, I reckon. :o

Quiet, you.

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