Psychic Duelist's Thought Made Real ability with Thoughtform creature?


Rules Questions


Prd wrote:

At 9th level, a psychic duelist can bring offensive manifestations directly into her foes' minds, attacking with them without entering a psychic duel.

When doing so, she can generate manifestation points only by sacrificing a spell, not through any other methods. Using an offensive manifestation in this way functions as casting a spell with a full-round-action casting time. Conditions imposed by these offensive manifestations last for their full duration, even though the target isn't in a psychic duel.

The psychic duelist can use manifestation amplifications on offensive manifestations created this way. Such offensive manifestations can't affect thought-form creatures. This is a mind-affecting illusion (phantasm) effect. A thoughtform creature manifested in this way is visible only to its target.

This ability replaces telepathic bond.

What happen when you choose to manifest thoughtform creature using this ability? Can the target even attack the thoughtform creature? (Actually... can Phantasm effect be attack or damage?)

Also what happen if you choose to augment your thoughtform creature with 2MP from Protective ability? Do you get immunity to AC attack from the target in the real world?

Prd wrote:

Protective Ability: Increase the cost by 1 MP to grant the creator a +4 bonus to AC (both normal and touch), a +2 bonus on Reflex saving throws, and evasion for as long as this thought-form creature exists. Increasing the cost by an additional 2 MP also grants the creator immunity to attacks against AC or touch AC for as long as this thought-form creature exists.


I think that creating a thoughtform creature is a different type of manifestation than offensive or defensive, so the ability would not allow for their creation outside of an actual psychic duel.


You can't manifest a thoughtform with this ability, you just use offensive manifestations.

They take untyped damage, which is (usually) 2d8 per spell level (different for 1st or 9th level spells). You can choose either to make a ranged or melee combat (strength or dex modifier as you choose to your BAB but not obviously increaseable by anything else) against regular AC, burn 2 extra spell levels (that don't increase your damage) to make it a touch attack, or burn 1 extra spell level to make it any kind of save of your choice (will/fort/reflex) negates.

You can also burn extra spell levels to impose conditions IF you choose to go the save rather than AC route, but they're really, really expensive (3 additional spell levels for 1 rd of blinded or confused, 4 additional spell levels for 1 rd of nauseated or dazed, etc.).

So let's say you are 12th level and burn a 6th level spell with this ability. You use a full round casting time, so no move action. You can:

1. Deal 12d8 damage if you target and hit regular AC. (Choose strength or dex modifier for free.)
2. Deal 8d8 damage if you target and hit touch AC. (Choose strength or dex modifier for free.)
3. Deal 10d8 damage if they fail a save. You can pick any save and thus target their weak save.
4. Deal 1d8 damage and make them dazed or nauseated for one round if they fail a save. You can pick any save and thus target their weak save.
5. Deal 4d8 damage and make them blinded or confused for 1 round if they fail a save. You can...
6. Do more damage, save, entangled or shaken.

Or you could use a 6th level slot to cast a Persistent Confusion. Or use Empowered Mind Thrust IV that does 18d8 and 1 rd of fatigue on a failed Will save, 9d8 on a successful save (note that they take 1d8 less on a successful save from this option than they would from a failed save if you used Thought Made Real targeting a non Will save). Or use a Disintegrate and still use your move action.

It's a weak archetype and a bad ability. Psychic duels should be things psychics at psychic university do as part of fraternity competitions and hazings, not serious things that real adventurers do if they want to stay alive.

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