Dead Outsiders and Limited Wish


Rules Questions


17 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Is Limited Wish intended to bypass True Resurrection(a higher level spell)?

According to the rules raise dead line of spells it takes True Ressurection to bring an outside back to life.

According to Limited Wish it can not duplicate a higher level spell.

According to the outsider entry:

Quote:
When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life.

Limited Wish not only saves the party 23500 gold peices, but it is a lower level spell than True Resurrection.

It is my opinion that when the outsider entry was written that Limited Wish was included by accident.

FAQ please.

PS: I am well aware of what the book says. <----In before someone points out the exact wording of the outsider entry.


FAQ'd. Seems like an oversight and not intended.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I suspect that the intention is to allow Limited Wish to function as a Raise Dead that works on Outsiders, but with all of the limitations of Raise Dead (rather than True Resurrection). And at my table, that's how I'd run it. Still FAQing this, because I think it needs clearing up.


I disagree with the consideration of it being an oversight somehow, given that literally every other main resurrection magic is listed in the entry. And I don't find any logic in saying that surely limited wish must be duplicating True Rez.

However, I do agree that some clarity on how it functions would be good.

Sovereign Court

It looks like an oversight.


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It might be an over sight, however I was thinking it might just be a limit on Divine casters, they can not resurrect outsiders, therefore you are limited to using arcane spells to do so.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Limited wish lets you "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects"

One of the above effects is "Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools."

Raise dead is a 5th level spell that is not on the sorc/wizard list. It does not work on outsiders, but since we are told limited wish can be used to raise outsiders, we can look to raise dead as an effect whose power level should be in line with whatever we want to do. So, I'd say you can use limited wish to do the equivalent of raise dead on an outsider (so they get 2 negative levels and all of that jazz). You could probably also get away with a reincarnate, although the outsider may not like that all that much.


Reincarnate doesnt work because with outsiders the body and soul are one unit.


wraithstrike wrote:
Reincarnate doesnt work because with outsiders the body and soul are one unit.

The spell doesn't say that. but it does say: Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated.

Are there non-outsider elementals? Because I thought they all were. Why repeat that?


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Starbuck_II wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Reincarnate doesnt work because with outsiders the body and soul are one unit.

The spell doesn't say that. but it does say: Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated.

Are there non-outsider elementals? Because I thought they all were. Why repeat that?

Wasn't elemental a separate type from outsider in 3.5 or 3.0?

Grand Lodge

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Snowblind wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Reincarnate doesnt work because with outsiders the body and soul are one unit.

The spell doesn't say that. but it does say: Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated.

Are there non-outsider elementals? Because I thought they all were. Why repeat that?

Wasn't elemental a separate type from outsider in 3.5 or 3.0?

Yup. Elemental was a separate type in 3.5 (as was Giant). It's just one of the many copy+paste errors in Pathfinder now.

Silver Crusade

When non native outsiders are killed on a plane that is not their own don't they reform on their home plane? I would think that a Solar or Planatar could use raise dead on an Angel as their magic is of a direct divine nature powered by their divine essence not magic passed on to a mere mortal. I would also say Devils,demons and deamons could do the same. Though I think by a nature deamons would not bring back a failure.


Lou Diamond wrote:
When non native outsiders are killed on a plane that is not their own don't they reform on their home plane? I would think that a Solar or Planatar could use raise dead on an Angel as their magic is of a direct divine nature powered by their divine essence not magic passed on to a mere mortal. I would also say Devils,demons and deamons could do the same. Though I think by a nature deamons would not bring back a failure.

Only summoned outsiders continue to live on their home plane. An outsider that is not summoned really dies and stays dead.


Jeff Merola wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Reincarnate doesnt work because with outsiders the body and soul are one unit.

The spell doesn't say that. but it does say: Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated.

Are there non-outsider elementals? Because I thought they all were. Why repeat that?

Wasn't elemental a separate type from outsider in 3.5 or 3.0?
Yup. Elemental was a separate type in 3.5 (as was Giant). It's just one of the many copy+paste errors in Pathfinder now.

Giants were made into humanoids on purpose, and as for Elementals I have to check the book later but I think they are a type of outsider in 3.5 and PF.

Grand Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Yup. Elemental was a separate type in 3.5 (as was Giant). It's just one of the many copy+paste errors in Pathfinder now.
Giants were made into humanoids on purpose, and as for Elementals I have to check the book later but I think they are a type of outsider in 3.5 and PF.

Well, yes, they changed the types on purpose (3.5 really did have Elementals as a type separate from Outsiders). But because of that there are things like the the aforementioned list containing outsiders and elementals separately, because they just copied and pasted a lot of things without actually going back to check if other changes they'd made had affected them.


It's definitely not an oversight. It's clearly written in the rules. If you need an interpretation, it is a limit on divine casters, but more importantly it's there to allow the raising of a planar binded creature.

The idea is that when it comes to the magical nature of outsiders the arcane caster is slightly better at revival. Also this isn't a real rules question. Want a phrase not to be there is kind of not FAQ worthy. Do you think the developers didn't consider this?


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's definitely not an oversight. It's clearly written in the rules. If you need an interpretation, it is a limit on divine casters, but more importantly it's there to allow the raising of a planar binded creature.

The idea is that when it comes to the magical nature of outsiders the arcane caster is slightly better at revival. Also this isn't a real rules question. Want a phrase not to be there is kind of not FAQ worthy. Do you think the developers didn't consider this?

I would be totally unsurprised if the developers didn't consider this. There have been other instances of copy-paste errors in the past (fire immunity=cold vulnerability, for one). Why would this particular instance be special?

Oh, and a copy-paste error is FAQ worthy, because they have gotten FAQs before. If this is another error, then it would be just as much a candidate for FAQing as the fire immunity FAQ.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's definitely not an oversight. It's clearly written in the rules. If you need an interpretation, it is a limit on divine casters, but more importantly it's there to allow the raising of a planar binded creature.

The idea is that when it comes to the magical nature of outsiders the arcane caster is slightly better at revival. Also this isn't a real rules question. Want a phrase not to be there is kind of not FAQ worthy. Do you think the developers didn't consider this?

Haste was clearly written and called out "held weapons" at one point, but the devs didnt intend for it to work with only held weapons.

So it is not "definitely" clear that this is not an oversight.

I know bringing outsiders back to life is not a common thing, but there is no reason to pay 25000 and use a higher level slot when you can pay 1500 and use a lower level slot.

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