Kineticist Question


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

I'm considering making a Tiefling Kineticist and was wondering about this section I read on page 11 of the Occult Adventures, which is located on the upper right hand corner of that page; "As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands)."

So does this mean if the kineticist doesn't have any hands at all(for instance lets say his hands have been cut off or are tied up)or doesn't have any hands free (for example maybe their hands are full and only have their tail that can move)they can use for instead in my Tiefling example their tail to use Kinetic Blast?

Silver Crusade

Nope, if they have hands, they need a free hand. If your tiefling didn't have hands, they could use their tail though, which would look pretty cool to me.


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I'll get the rusty meat cleaver.


To be fair, I figure this was mostly something to allow those with tentacle-arms or non-humanoid kineticists to blast (although, considering the need to be prehensile, it'd be a stretch to have an awakened animal use its mouth, paws, or talons to blast, as cool as it'd be).

Silver Crusade

Dang it I was hoping that a tiefling's tail could be used even if the kineticist had his hands tied.

Grand Lodge

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The Mortonator wrote:
I'll get the rusty meat cleaver.

Don't worry, you're a kineticist, you'll make your save against tetanus.


That could be an interesting feat later down the line, the ability to project blasts from any part of the body... maybe -1 to hit with an unusual appendage but a +1 save DC due to an unexpected blast? body parts subject to GM discretion (and good taste)

Scarab Sages

Well, if you didn't have hands, you could use kinetic fist to charge your natural weapons or unarmed strike, but kinetic fist is generally pretty bad.


How so?

I'm genuinely curious, my daughter has been thinking of going with water fist.

Scarab Sages

It just scales so poorly. It costs burn (unless you are an elemental ascetic), and it only adds 1d6 points of damage per 3 dice of your kinetic blast's damage to an unarmed strike/natural weapon. Granted, it's pretty good if you have a crap-top of natural attacks, but that's not most characters.


Thanks! Good to know. :-)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well, it's an infusion which means it's free by level 5.

It's not the end of the world and the damage can get pretty respectable when you go nova, but ultimately +1d6 damage at 1, 11 and 17 and +1 to attack and damage at 6, 11 and 16 (assuming you keep your overflow up) doesn't add up as well as other combat boosters.


it's not +1d6 per 3 levels, it's +1d6 per 3d6 your blast does. So your blast needs to be doing 6d6 to get 2d6 to your punches. So either lv7 with composite blast or lv11 when your normal blast does 6d6.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah I typed that poorly, edited for clarity.

Scarab Sages

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Also, you do not add elemental overflow or any other modifier to a kinetic blast hit or damaage on kinetic fist. It's a bare 1d6 per 3d6 ratio, with no modifiers.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well, you can still benefit from the size modifiers Overflow gives you, because those are modifiers to your stats, not blast. Otherwise yes, you don't get the to hit / damage of Overflow.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

To clarify, would one get Str mod to damage for the nat. attacks while using Kinitic Fist?

Silver Crusade

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Yes, the only thing that's affected is the bonus damage, which basically makes it an elemental amulet of mighty fist with a very slow growth rate.


N. Jolly wrote:
Yes, the only thing that's affected is the bonus damage, which basically makes it an elemental amulet of mighty fist with a very slow growth rate.

Just want to second this. If you treat it as if you have a "flaming" AoMF then you'll rule it correctly.

Designer

Chess Pwn wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Yes, the only thing that's affected is the bonus damage, which basically makes it an elemental amulet of mighty fist with a very slow growth rate.
Just want to second this. If you treat it as if you have a "flaming" AoMF then you'll rule it correctly.

And possibly it might look more like impact if your element does the same damage type as the natural attack/unarmed strike (in fact, if you go that route, then assuming baseline kinetic fist rate and no burn vs the monk unarmed damage progression, you'll be doing equal or more damage per hit in that case than a monk's unarmed damage at every level, even if you're starting with a worst-case 1d3 unarmed strike; 1d3+1d6 vs 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, then 1d3+2d6 vs 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, then 1d3+3d6 vs 2d8, 2d10). And don't forget to factor in any substance infusions on each hit too!


Question. If I'm going earth with this, does DR get applied twice?
*I'm pretty sure it's not, but it's nice to have confirmation to show anyone who thinks it does.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It is still one hit, like a sword with Flaming, so I would think only one count for the DR hit.

Designer

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Chess Pwn wrote:

Question. If I'm going earth with this, does DR get applied twice?

*I'm pretty sure it's not, but it's nice to have confirmation to show anyone who thinks it does.

I wouldn't apply it twice personally, though I could see someone wanting to apply it twice and I wouldn't bregrudge them.


I agree with thaX it's an effect on a weapon (fist) so just treated it like an effect on a weapon, one hit means you apply DR once.


Can you empower a kinetic fist and what would it do if you can?

Scarab Sages

Can you do piercing or slashing with an earth kinetic fist?

Silver Crusade

Chess Pwn wrote:
Can you empower a kinetic fist and what would it do if you can?

I don't see why you couldn't, although from the math, it seems like the result would be lackluster, just empowering the d6s involved.

Imbicatus wrote:
Can you do piercing or slashing with an earth kinetic fist?

I don't see why not, although I think there'd be more reason to allow DR to apply twice in that situation.


You could use it with a composite blast for a little more bang for your buck, but that burn could stack up fast.

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