Oh Marvel, you really are terrible now.


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Aberzombie wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
And when will we get the plotline about how Spidey has been making money on the side for years now by dealing drugs?

Or the story of how the Punisher's family is not only still alive, but his wife is a major crime boss and the kids are her chief enforcers.

I also hear that Thor is the one who is actually the son of giants. Loki is the true son of Odin.

And don't you know, it was the Hulk who was the original. The Gamma bomb turned him into Bruce Banner.

Heh, that reminds me how back when Civil War was a thing. Marvel released a picture of Iron Man, his armor painted in red white and blue, and with the classic Cap shield.

I showed it to some people at another forum and they universally denounced it as bullsh*t and me for an idiot to fall for it. "Because not even Marvel Comics and Quesada would be THAT STUPID."

Then it came out and we learned that no, it was NOT Tony Stark in that armor.

It was Norman Osborn. Which I suppose meant that Marvel wasn't 'that stupid', they were even stupider!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seriously. You people need to calm down. Wait until the arc finishes in six months or so before you freak out.

Is there a chance this is s%!@ting on Cap's history as you are saying? Yeah, maybe even a big chance.

But there is a chance that this will be something interesting and well thought out.

The editor saying "This is the real Steve Rogers and he has been Hydra the whole time" comes across the same as the show runners for Game of Thrones repeating over and over that Jon Snow is dead and would stay that way.


As I've said other places, I'm also waiting to see that Tony Stark is secretly Donald Trump with better hair. I would bet my life's inheritance that this is either Cap being brainwashed, not the real Cap, not 616-Cap, he's a triple agent, etc. OR that the whole plot line just gets abandoned and they hope people forget about it.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Thing is we all know how this is going to end.
Cap will come out of it being heroic and squeeky clean as always.

He always will eventually, that isn't even the question. Despite knowing the end the fun is the journey, following the story to see how it plays out. That's how it is with all comics really.

But with this I don't care.
I don't want to go on this journey,
I don't want to see how we get to the end where Cap is squeaky clean again
this is just wrong and I don't want to see it

I'm not going to pay money for a story I don't want to read.


Aberzombie wrote:

That is completely f#%@ing idiotic. I was going to collect this series, but if that's the kind of crap they're going to pull, I'm just going to hand the issue right back to the comic book store and have them take the title off my list.

Seriously, how big of an a*&%~$@ do you have to be to take the original Captain America and turn him into some Nazi douchebag? Things would have been better to just let Rogers die and leave Sam as the inheritor of the mantle. Though I wish they'd get rid of his wings.

It's important to rmember that Hydra is about as much Nazi as it was Uncle Sam. The Red Skull and Hitler's Party traveled parallel for awhile, but it's clear that their interests diverged even before the end of the war.

Like it or not, this JUST might be a good story series if you give it a chance.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Think it's safe to disgard the deep cover or Triple agent theory since those wouldent have needed to show that scene of him being introduced to Hydra when he was a kid.

Scarab Sages

Tumorseal wrote:

Seriously. You people need to calm down. Wait until the arc finishes in six months or so before you freak out.

Is there a chance this is s$$%ting on Cap's history as you are saying? Yeah, maybe even a big chance.

But there is a chance that this will be something interesting and well thought out.

The editor saying "This is the real Steve Rogers and he has been Hydra the whole time" comes across the same as the show runners for Game of Thrones repeating over and over that Jon Snow is dead and would stay that way.

Relax, kid. It's not like we're screaming "Burn the witch".

Scarab Sages

JDPhipps wrote:
.....OR that the whole plot line just gets abandoned and they hope people forget about it.

I like what you're saying and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Greylurker wrote:
I'm not going to pay money for a story I don't want to read.

This. In a nutshell.

Scarab Sages

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Like it or not, this JUST might be a good story series if you give it a chance.

The more I hear about the story itself, and the author, the more I can pretty much guarantee this statement doesn't apply to me. There are some folks whose stuff I simply avoid.

Scarab Sages

Kevin Mack wrote:
Think it's safe to disgard the deep cover or Triple agent theory since those wouldent have needed to show that scene of him being introduced to Hydra when he was a kid.

Maybe it was the GOOD head of Hydra! I mean, all those heads getting cut off and replaced by two more over the years. There was bound to be a good one eventually. Right? Statistics, man! They don't lie!!!

Dark Archive

Aberzombie wrote:
Tumorseal wrote:

Seriously. You people need to calm down. Wait until the arc finishes in six months or so before you freak out.

Is there a chance this is s$$%ting on Cap's history as you are saying? Yeah, maybe even a big chance.

But there is a chance that this will be something interesting and well thought out.

The editor saying "This is the real Steve Rogers and he has been Hydra the whole time" comes across the same as the show runners for Game of Thrones repeating over and over that Jon Snow is dead and would stay that way.

Relax, kid. It's not like we're screaming "Burn the witch".

But... But we had the pitchforks and torches and firewood all ready!!!

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

y'know, this again brings to mind what Aberzombie said in his reminiscing while ago:

Aberzombie wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like modern comic book writers don't know how to tell a decent story in anything less than 6 to 8 issues. Now, as I understand, that's actually more of a corporate decision, multi-part stories being easier to repackage later on in trade paperbacks. Still, it leaves me wondering if some of these youngsters could even accomplish such a feat as a one-shot.

I think the same problem is here again. This is again a first part of six-to-twelve issue series which will have no good jumping on points except the beginning. I can just feel it.


Aberzombie wrote:
Tumorseal wrote:

Seriously. You people need to calm down. Wait until the arc finishes in six months or so before you freak out.

Is there a chance this is s$$%ting on Cap's history as you are saying? Yeah, maybe even a big chance.

But there is a chance that this will be something interesting and well thought out.

The editor saying "This is the real Steve Rogers and he has been Hydra the whole time" comes across the same as the show runners for Game of Thrones repeating over and over that Jon Snow is dead and would stay that way.

Relax, kid. It's not like we're screaming "Burn the witch".

no, you're just b#*&#ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

There have been worse cap storylines.

Capwolf, for one, which was hilariously revisited in Sam Wilson captain america.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b@~+$ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

So... we're not allowed to voice our complaints with the concept? Just buy the comic and hope for the best?

Whatever, that's ridiculous.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
no, you're just b&@!%ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

Why would someone who doesn't like the comic's concept care about the well-being of said comic?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b!*~#ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

Don't forget, I'm f#%~ing cussing a lot!


Callous Jack wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b@~+$ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

So... we're not allowed to voice our complaints with the concept? Just buy the comic and hope for the best?

Whatever, that's ridiculous.

so...how do you explain past bad storylines?

Has the comic been a perfect run for the past god knows how many years? I strongly doubt it.


Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b!*~#ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

Don't forget, I'm f~*%ing cussing a lot!

potty mouth!


Sundakan wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
no, you're just b&@!%ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.
Why would someone who doesn't like the comic's concept care about the well-being of said comic?

hey I'm the last person to tell people how to go about hating. Just pointing out that this is going off of an article written by a guy on the Internet, which is unwise at best. I'll read the comic and reserve my judgement for a few issues.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
no, you're just b&@!%ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.
Why would someone who doesn't like the comic's concept care about the well-being of said comic?
hey I'm the last person to tell people how to go about hating. Just pointing out that this is going off of an article written by a guy on the Internet, which is unwise at best. I'll read the comic and reserve my judgement for a few issues.

Make judgements based on actual information rather than possibly incorrect (and certainly insufficient) statements by random people?

I say, I don't think you're getting the spirit of the Internet.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

We don't care! We want to RIOT!!! ~raises the pitchforks and torches~ Burn everything!!!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Guys, Captain America is going to be OKAY.

The thing that I just find amazing is that a lot of the people hating the book aren't or haven't even been reading Cap for the past few years or so. Reading Newsarama or other comic books sites or reading Wikpedia doesnt count. I admit that i've been reading Nick Spencer's run off and on mostly because i'm not that big of a fan as Sam as Cap. (I know SACRILEGE.) But prior to that I was reading Rick Remender's run on Cap every month.

The fact that a cosmic cube was involved in Steve's recovery (during the end of the STANDOFF event) and the penchant that thing has with messing with people's memories and REALITY ITSELF is enough for me to trust where this story is going without devolving into the sometimes violent knee jerk reaction that's been happening for the past day or so.

I'm often reminded that there's a reason I despise comic fandom. During the 90's it was the HEAT fiasco when rabid fans threatened the life of writer Ron Marz and his then toddler daughter over what he was doing in the pages of Green Lantern.

Most recently it was the bile thrown at Marvel for the introduction of Miles Morales and then the introduction of Thor as a woman (I'm not sure if her identity has been spoiled to the masses at large so I'm not going to spoil it here). Now this thing with Captain America. I love my hobbies but the fandom is made up of garbage human beings. Not all of them obviously but enough to not want to generally be associated with my fellow fan. Even though I might be one of the biggest comic book nerds I know.

When I saw on Twitter that people were reacting so violently to this Captain America issue? I walked over to my comic store and bought three more copies of the book. I'll probably give a few away to co workers and friends but that was the best counter reaction that I could give to this ridiculousness.


Man, people sure are vile f+%#ing garbage for going "This idea is kinda stupid and I don't feel like reading it".

What horrifyingly terrible human beings.

Truly the worst humanity has to offer.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I thought this was a bad twist because readers wouldn't buy it as anything more than a cheap bait and switch.

Given the online reaction, especially on social media, it seems that a lot of folks really think Marvel is making this change long-term.

I guess Marvel knows their audience a lot better than I do.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b!*~#ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

Don't forget, I'm f~*%ing cussing a lot!
potty mouth!

Or as MCU Cap would say, 'Language!'

Aberzombie wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
And when will we get the plotline about how Spidey has been making money on the side for years now by dealing drugs?

Or the story of how the Punisher's family is not only still alive, but his wife is a major crime boss and the kids are her chief enforcers.

I also hear that Thor is the one who is actually the son of giants. Loki is the true son of Odin.

And don't you know, it was the Hulk who was the original. The Gamma bomb turned him into Bruce Banner.

I would read any of these! (Although I'd prefer that they were What If? stories set in alternate universes!)

It's gotta be better than 'Wanda and Pietro are no longer Magneto's kids, because... movie rights' or 'formerly serious Tony Stark is now wisecracking Tony Snark, because... Robert Downey, Jr!'

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I got that one!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sundakan wrote:

Man, people sure are vile f~!!ing garbage for going "This idea is kinda stupid and I don't feel like reading it".

What horrifyingly terrible human beings.

Truly the worst humanity has to offer.

if HEAT never happened, you would have a stronger point.


HEAT?


Wait, didn't the Red Skull use a chunk of Xavier's brain or something to turn a bunch of the heroes evil a little while back? They all got better, I think, except Stark, who wasn't left evil so much as super arrogant douche-y (which I guess got erased in the recent Secret Wars).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Sundakan wrote:

Man, people sure are vile f~!!ing garbage for going "This idea is kinda stupid and I don't feel like reading it".

What horrifyingly terrible human beings.

Truly the worst humanity has to offer.

if HEAT never happened, you would have a stronger point.

There's also the fact that people were threatening physical violence towards the writer Nick Spencer on Social Media most notably Twitter yesterday after the release of the book.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Wait, didn't the Red Skull use a chunk of Xavier's brain or something to turn a bunch of the heroes evil a little while back? They all got better, I think, except Stark, who wasn't left evil so much as super arrogant douche-y (which I guess got erased in the recent Secret Wars).

It's a little more complex than that of course but yeah close enough and I think that the Red Skull still has access to some of his telepathic abilities so along with the Cosmic Cube influence that might be in play as well...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:

]so...how do you explain past bad storylines?

Has the comic been a perfect run for the past god knows how many years? I strongly doubt it.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point, but why would I explain past storylines? No comics are ever perfect on a constant basis. Some are good, some are boring, and some are just lousy. I don't keep buying something I don't care for, especially these ridiculous dog and pony shows that Marvel likes to pull.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm just gonna blame HydraCap on the CW Barry Allen and/or Rip Hunter.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'm just gonna blame HydraCap on the CW Barry Allen and/or Rip Hunter.

I'm out of the loop on that one.

Liberty's Edge

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.


Callous Jack wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'm just gonna blame HydraCap on the CW Barry Allen and/or Rip Hunter.
I'm out of the loop on that one.

The Flash is still pretty watchable, even if season 2 coulda been a lot better. Legends of Tomorrow's (and Time Master Rip Hunter's) epic stupidity may cause brain damage in the viewers (although watching Captain Cold chew scenery and White Canary beat up mooks is fun).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'm just gonna blame HydraCap on the CW Barry Allen and/or Rip Hunter.

Was HydraCap also behind Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice?

Liberty's Edge

Sundakan wrote:
HEAT?

Hal's Emerald Attack Team.

Go do some reading and then you can decided if you really want to be part of the rabid, fanatical, fringe (or core, it's hard to tell anymore) of fandom.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Wait, didn't the Red Skull use a chunk of Xavier's brain or something to turn a bunch of the heroes evil a little while back? They all got better, I think, except Stark, who wasn't left evil so much as super arrogant douche-y

So what you're saying is that they all got returned to normal. :P


So Cap is the comic version of Grant Ward.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'm just gonna blame HydraCap on the CW Barry Allen and/or Rip Hunter.
Was HydraCap also behind Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice?

No. That's squarely on Jack Kirby for creating Darksnyd.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Krensky wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
HEAT?

Hal's Emerald Attack Team.

Go do some reading and then you can decided if you really want to be part of the rabid, fanatical, fringe (or core, it's hard to tell anymore) of fandom.

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "I think this idea is dumb" makes me "rabid and fanatical" somehow.

So far the closest to scary fanatics I've seen are people calling me a fanatic or a "garbage human being" for not immediately buying into every plot twist that comes out.

Though that last may not apply to me since I already said I'm not a huge Cap fan, I just, again, think the idea is pretty stupid.


Norman Osborne wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Wait, didn't the Red Skull use a chunk of Xavier's brain or something to turn a bunch of the heroes evil a little while back? They all got better, I think, except Stark, who wasn't left evil so much as super arrogant douche-y
So what you're saying is that they all got returned to normal. :P

I read bits and pieces of Iron Man growing up, mostly around Armor Wars I & II, and more recently the entire Matt Fraction run. For all his faults, I still liked Stark. Superior Iron Man took Stark into full-on goes-to-11 ultrasmug douchebaggery, and made him irredeemably hateable.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sundakan wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
HEAT?

Hal's Emerald Attack Team.

Go do some reading and then you can decided if you really want to be part of the rabid, fanatical, fringe (or core, it's hard to tell anymore) of fandom.

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "I think this idea is dumb" makes me "rabid and fanatical" somehow.

So far the closest to scary fanatics I've seen are people calling me a fanatic or a "garbage human being" for not immediately buying into every plot twist that comes out.

Though that last may not apply to me since I already said I'm not a huge Cap fan, I just, again, think the idea is pretty stupid.

I'm still trying to figure out why you think anything said here has anything to do with you as opposed to the general s#&~storm going on about this.

Not liking it is fine. Thinking it's dumb is fine. Heck, I dislike it and think it's dumb based on what was show, but I think a lot of these 'event' story lines are dumb.

Screaming like the sky is falling, making death threats against the writers and such is not fine. The first is just embarrassing yourself and the rest of fandom, the second is vile and illegal. There has been only the vaguest whiff of the wailing and gnashing in the thread and none of the latter.

Defending the later with snarky comments that conflate condemning the people on twitter and such calling for peoples jobs and heads garbage with insulting you just for not liking it is not cool either.

It's not about you, find another hill to die on.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sundakan wrote:

Man, people sure are vile f&~*ing garbage for going "This idea is kinda stupid and I don't feel like reading it".

When did I say this?

Quote me.

Go ahead, I'll wait.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Sundakan wrote:

Man, people sure are vile f&~*ing garbage for going "This idea is kinda stupid and I don't feel like reading it".

When did I say this?

Quote me.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

ShinHakkaider wrote:

Guys, Captain America is going to be OKAY.

The thing that I just find amazing is that a lot of the people hating the book aren't or haven't even been reading Cap for the past few years or so. Reading Newsarama or other comic books sites or reading Wikpedia doesnt count. I admit that i've been reading Nick Spencer's run off and on mostly because i'm not that big of a fan as Sam as Cap. (I know SACRILEGE.) But prior to that I was reading Rick Remender's run on Cap every month.

The fact that a cosmic cube was involved in Steve's recovery (during the end of the STANDOFF event) and the penchant that thing has with messing with people's memories and REALITY ITSELF is enough for me to trust where this story is going without devolving into the sometimes violent knee jerk reaction that's been happening for the past day or so.

I'm often reminded that there's a reason I despise comic fandom. During the 90's it was the HEAT fiasco when rabid fans threatened the life of writer Ron Marz and his then toddler daughter over what he was doing in the pages of Green Lantern.

Most recently it was the bile thrown at Marvel for the introduction of Miles Morales and then the introduction of Thor as a woman (I'm not sure if her identity has been spoiled to the masses at large so I'm not going to spoil it here). Now this thing with Captain America. I love my hobbies but the fandom is made up of garbage human beings. Not all of them obviously but enough to not want to generally be associated with my fellow fan. Even though I might be one of the biggest comic book nerds I know.

When I saw on Twitter that people were reacting so violently to this Captain America issue? I walked over to my comic store and bought three more copies of the book. I'll probably give a few away to co workers and friends but that was the best counter reaction that I could give to this ridiculousness.

Krensky wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
HEAT?

Hal's Emerald Attack Team.

Go do some reading and then you can decided if you really want to be part of the rabid, fanatical, fringe (or core, it's hard to tell anymore) of fandom.

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "I think this idea is dumb" makes me "rabid and fanatical" somehow.

So far the closest to scary fanatics I've seen are people calling me a fanatic or a "garbage human being" for not immediately buying into every plot twist that comes out.

Though that last may not apply to me since I already said I'm not a huge Cap fan, I just, again, think the idea is pretty stupid.

I'm still trying to figure out why you think anything said here has anything to do with you as opposed to the general s!$$storm going on about this.

Not liking it is fine. Thinking it's dumb is fine. Heck, I dislike it and think it's dumb based on what was show, but I think a lot of these 'event' story lines are dumb.

Screaming like the sky is falling, making death threats against the writers and such is not fine. The first is just embarrassing yourself and the rest of fandom, the second is vile and illegal. There has been only the vaguest whiff of the wailing and gnashing in the thread and none of the latter.

Defending the later with snarky comments that conflate condemning the people on twitter and such calling for peoples jobs and heads garbage with insulting you just for not liking it is not cool either.

It's not about you, find another hill to die on.

So if you're not talking to the people in this thread, you're both b$&@~ing and moaning here about something that's not relevant to what's going on in this thread because...?

I generally assume people are talking to the other posters in the thread they're posting in, rather than leveling vague accusations at people who aren't even here, because that's really just stupid. Go complain to those people.

If you don't want your point to be misunderstood, post within the context of the discussion.


Given that he specifically cited examples right before your bolded line, I thought it was pretty clear.
"ometimes violent knee jerk reaction that's been happening for the past day or so."
"when rabid fans threatened the life of writer Ron Marz and his then toddler daughter"
"bile thrown at Marvel for"

then afterwards: "When I saw on Twitter that people were reacting so violently to this Captain America issue"

Scarab Sages

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Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

no, you're just b!*~#ing and swearing you will never read it and quietly encouraging others to do the same, which is worse for the comic.

Don't forget, I'm f~*%ing cussing a lot!
potty mouth!

F&~@ing m!@**~~@#+#$ son-of-a-b*$%~ s#$% f~$@ bastard Barbara Streisand!


thejeff wrote:

Given that he specifically cited examples right before your bolded line, I thought it was pretty clear.

"ometimes violent knee jerk reaction that's been happening for the past day or so."
"when rabid fans threatened the life of writer Ron Marz and his then toddler daughter"
"bile thrown at Marvel for"

then afterwards: "When I saw on Twitter that people were reacting so violently to this Captain America issue"

It's pretty clear that's what he was talking about, but if he wasn't trying to lump the other posters in this thread into the same bunch of people, why dump it into an otherwise very mild thread?

If I dropped into a thread of people talking about how they didn't like something popular and just, without referring to anyone specific, and seemingly out of nowhere said "The people that have been complaining about this are just ridiculous human scum, I can't stand them at all", people would assuming I'm talking about the people in said thread, because otherwise it was completely pointless of me to post that.

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