Oh Marvel, you really are terrible now.


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Scarab Sages

Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Comics stuff will always attempt to get new audiences, mostly fail, and then desperately try to get the old ones back. Vicious cycle.

Indeed. I've been collecting for damn close to thirty years, and the cycle always repeats. Happened to me with Flash. They unceremoniously dropped original recipe Wally West down the memory whole and brought back Barry. I tried to keep with that, but found it lame.

Now, with Rebirth, I'm back to collecting because I'd heard the writing on Flash was really good. And it has been. I'm even starting to like Other Wally.

Hell, I'm even collecting a few Bat titles again. Even though that little ballsack Damian has a tendency to show up.

the only Damian I like is in injustice.

I'm not up to date on that story, but hear good things about it.

Sovereign Court

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phantom1592 wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Because comics are essentially conservative. There's a baseline default that everything regresses towards. It seems that the target audience for comics is guys who stopped reading their favorite titles back in 1995, and want to pick them back up with the least glitches in continuity.

Iron Man will eventually be back to being Tony Stark. Thor will eventually return to being the Odinson. And Uatu the Watcher will regain his post on Earth's moon.

Ehhhh... I'm about as conservative as it gets with keeping my comics traditional but, there's a pretty strong difference between Uatu and Thor or Captain America. I can't imagine there are massive fans of Uatu who would riot with him replaced... if there are they should have already rioted with him getting killed. He's not a main character... heck he's not even a secondary character or even really a guest star. He's pretty much spent his entire career being somewhere between a narrator and a plot device.

Just the fact that there IS a watcher who shows up when something 'big' is going to happen to record it in his journals... That's all there is to the Watcher.

Actually, did Uatu's death even been mentioned since Secret Wars? I wonder if Reed Richards included that when he rewrote the universe...

Interesting question. And I would be surprised if people cared about Uatu, I know I don't. Then again, Marvel has damaged some of main characters so much that I don't even care about them anymore.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Comics stuff will always attempt to get new audiences, mostly fail, and then desperately try to get the old ones back. Vicious cycle.

Indeed. I've been collecting for damn close to thirty years, and the cycle always repeats. Happened to me with Flash. They unceremoniously dropped original recipe Wally West down the memory whole and brought back Barry. I tried to keep with that, but found it lame.

Now, with Rebirth, I'm back to collecting because I'd heard the writing on Flash was really good. And it has been. I'm even starting to like Other Wally.

Hell, I'm even collecting a few Bat titles again. Even though that little ballsack Damian has a tendency to show up.

I was sad to see Barry come back, partly because I like to see death mean something in comics and partly because I liked Wally a lot.


You do realize this isn't that kind of thread right Jack?

Silver Crusade

Given the thread title I thought it was exactly for complaining about Marvel.


...Okay you got me there Rysky. I just would like to NOT have this thread up again when there's a perfectly good Marvel Thread already.

That's all.

Silver Crusade

Your's is about the current storyline, and it didn't seem like you were okay with people complaining about it in there.


...Mmm.... You raise a good point. I shouldn't be such a jerk about people complaining about stuff.

I'm sorry.

Silver Crusade

Ish okay.

*offers hugs*


:) Thanks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Callous Jack wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Comics stuff will always attempt to get new audiences, mostly fail, and then desperately try to get the old ones back. Vicious cycle.

Indeed. I've been collecting for damn close to thirty years, and the cycle always repeats. Happened to me with Flash. They unceremoniously dropped original recipe Wally West down the memory whole and brought back Barry. I tried to keep with that, but found it lame.

Now, with Rebirth, I'm back to collecting because I'd heard the writing on Flash was really good. And it has been. I'm even starting to like Other Wally.

Hell, I'm even collecting a few Bat titles again. Even though that little ballsack Damian has a tendency to show up.

I was sad to see Barry come back, partly because I like to see death mean something in comics and partly because I liked Wally a lot.

Barry went out like a true hero. I can see where you are coming from. Only death I felt was more amazing was ted.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm actually growing to like Damian, particularly with Super Sons. Him and Jon arguing all the time is just great. Particularly the whole Teen Titans thing right now. It just feels so typical of kids who's dads make them play together.

For some reason Marvel never really liked the Teen Sidekicks thing. Closest they really had was Rick Jones. But it's a great way to build a new character and let them become a natural part of the setting.

Sometimes I feel like Marvel doesn't like the fun parts of Superheroes. Like being a superhero needs to constantly be about sacrificing your own life and happiness for the good of others. I blamn Bendis for that.


Greylurker wrote:

I'm actually growing to like Damian, particularly with Super Sons. Him and Jon arguing all the time is just great. Particularly the whole Teen Titans thing right now. It just feels so typical of kids who's dads make them play together.

For some reason Marvel never really liked the Teen Sidekicks thing. Closest they really had was Rick Jones. But it's a great way to build a new character and let them become a natural part of the setting.

Sometimes I feel like Marvel doesn't like the fun parts of Superheroes. Like being a superhero needs to constantly be about sacrificing your own life and happiness for the good of others. I blamn Bendis for that.

I blame Stan Lee and Spider-man or the X-Men. Back in the 60s. :)

It was sort of the whole schtick from the beginning: Superheroes who were real people with real personal problems.

I suspect the main reason Marvel never really did "Teen Sidekicks" is that they came along later. Sidekicks were really a Golden Age thing. Even most of DC's date to that era, in one way or another. They've just been preserved and sometimes updated or subverted.

The real Marvel example would be Bucky and he was a Golden Age character. (Along with Toro and a few others.) Rick Jones kind of subverted the role - bouncing from hero to hero and not actually getting a hero name or costume.

Scarab Sages

Callous Jack wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Comics stuff will always attempt to get new audiences, mostly fail, and then desperately try to get the old ones back. Vicious cycle.

Indeed. I've been collecting for damn close to thirty years, and the cycle always repeats. Happened to me with Flash. They unceremoniously dropped original recipe Wally West down the memory whole and brought back Barry. I tried to keep with that, but found it lame.

Now, with Rebirth, I'm back to collecting because I'd heard the writing on Flash was really good. And it has been. I'm even starting to like Other Wally.

Hell, I'm even collecting a few Bat titles again. Even though that little ballsack Damian has a tendency to show up.

I was sad to see Barry come back, partly because I like to see death mean something in comics and partly because I liked Wally a lot.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my feelings.

Dark Archive

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Freehold DM wrote:
Barry went out like a true hero. I can see where you are coming from. Only death I felt was more amazing was ted.

On the Marvel side, Jean Grey's death was amazing (the whole storyline around it was pretty amazing, even), and her return-by-retcon to scratch some 'let's reunite the original 5 X-Men!' itch kind of crapped all over that. (It wasn't even Jean that chose to die to save the world and the man she loved, it was a fake Jean made by the Phoenix force that died to stop the Phoenix force?!)

That must be an awkward legacy to live up to. "While you were gone, there was this amazing hero who loved me so much she gave her life to save the world. And now you're back. Uh, hi."

She had a great death. Epic, even. And then the X-Factor series, which was not great, and based on a kind of terrible idea (the original X-Men hunt mutants pretending to be racist mutant-hunters, and shockingly find out that they've been secreting doing so for a dude who hates mutants!). And, years later, having realized that they had nothing really to do with her character that is more relevant than her death, they kill her off again.

I'm not 100% anti-resurrection. Bucky's return as the Winter Soldier was amazing, for instance, but Bucky was killed in a flashback and his death was pretty 'weightless' by comparison. Jean's story was told and finished and tied up with a pretty bow, making her return require, IMO, something even more epic than her death. Bucky's return *was* more epic than his death (or even his previous life as Cap's WW2 era sidekick). Jean's second stab at life kind of wasn't, IMO.

Sovereign Court

Set wrote:

I'm not 100% anti-resurrection. Bucky's return as the Winter Soldier was amazing, for instance, but Bucky was killed in a flashback and his death was pretty 'weightless' by comparison. Jean's story was told and finished and tied up with a pretty bow, making her return require, IMO, something even more epic than her death. Bucky's return *was* more epic than his death (or even his previous life as Cap's WW2 era sidekick). Jean's second stab at life kind of wasn't, IMO.

I was definitely against the return of Bucky. I really don't like them messing with the "iconic" deaths like Bucky, Gwen Stacy, Uncle Ben, Wayne parents, etc., but the Winter Soldier storyline was pretty damn amazing.

I had to eat my words with that one. It is in my top three Cap stories.

Sovereign Court

Freehold DM wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Comics stuff will always attempt to get new audiences, mostly fail, and then desperately try to get the old ones back. Vicious cycle.

Indeed. I've been collecting for damn close to thirty years, and the cycle always repeats. Happened to me with Flash. They unceremoniously dropped original recipe Wally West down the memory whole and brought back Barry. I tried to keep with that, but found it lame.

Now, with Rebirth, I'm back to collecting because I'd heard the writing on Flash was really good. And it has been. I'm even starting to like Other Wally.

Hell, I'm even collecting a few Bat titles again. Even though that little ballsack Damian has a tendency to show up.

I was sad to see Barry come back, partly because I like to see death mean something in comics and partly because I liked Wally a lot.
Barry went out like a true hero. I can see where you are coming from. Only death I felt was more amazing was ted.

Ted Kord? Isn't he back now too?

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Greylurker wrote:
For some reason Marvel never really liked the Teen Sidekicks thing. Closest they really had was Rick Jones. But it's a great way to build a new character and let them become a natural part of the setting.

Well, besides Bucky and Kitty/Jubilee to Wolverine, I see your point. I'm bummed by the fact that every major Marvel superhero has half a dozen clones now with similar powers. It really waters down the original character.

Greylurker wrote:

Sometimes I feel like Marvel doesn't like the fun parts of Superheroes. Like being a superhero needs to constantly be about sacrificing your own life and happiness for the good of others. I blamn Bendis for that.

I approve of this Bendis hatorade.

Scarab Sages

I thought I read somewhere that Jubilee had become a vampire. Is that still true?

Dark Archive

Aberzombie wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that Jubilee had become a vampire. Is that still true?

Yep although they dont really seem to focus all that much on the vampire part (Far as I'm aware at least)


Callous Jack wrote:


Ted Kord? Isn't he back now too?

Yep, although in his case it's more of; "The event that killed him never actually happened in the new continuety."

He's mentoring Jamie, the new Blue Beetle,and now that Jamie has lost the scarab he is lending the kid his old suit.


Set wrote:


She had a great death. Epic, even. And then the X-Factor series, which was not great, and based on a kind of terrible idea (the original X-Men hunt mutants pretending to be racist mutant-hunters, and shockingly find out that they've been secreting doing so for a dude who hates mutants!).

I'm a big fan of the original X-factor series. It gets a lot of hate, but I love the premise so much. It basically boiled down to 'Not all ideas are great'... But theres' just such an honesty to that bad idea that it makes sense.

People hate mutants... People keep forming hate mobs to lynch mutants... Advertising themselves as 'mutant hunters' kept the mobs away. instead of grabbing torches and pitchforks, they'd call the 'professionals' who then investigate and 'captured' the mutant...

Yes... the advertisements only fueled anti-mutant hysteria... but the results were less mob-justice and more saved mutants... so yay??

I loved the fact that the original team got together to preserve Xavier's dream. Finding mutants and training them to use their powers... Just like the Professor did with them. The X-men weren't doing it. They were running around austraila or something.. the New Mutants were being trained my their #1 mortal enemy... There werent' ANY 'good' places for mutants to go, and they stepped up.

It was a fun series... that ended horribly by getting sucked into the X-men/Marvel Crossover machine. Between Mutant Massacre, Xtinction agends, Fall of the mutants, Inferno... and I'm sure a couple others I'm forgetting the series sputtered out pretty hard. They couldn't keep any of their OWN stories going with the constant intrusions.

As for Dark Phoenix Saga... It was good at the time, but I really think it's a bit overblown. If it hadn't been one of the O5 to die, and one of the earliest 'ressurections' to happen in comics... I don't think it would still be as remembered fondly today. Something about an X-men deathmatch on the moon with aliens... just seems so shark-jumpy today. Buildup of evil Jean was fantastic... but once the Shiar got involved... mehhhh... it sputtered out.


Wasn't a fan of the "these are the REAL X men" vibe the book put forth. Most of the storylines were laughable and let's face it...cyclops and jean and beast and Angel were kinda laughable power scale wise in the face of wolverine, storm, rogue, and havok. And they were jerks to the new mutants, whom I love.

That said, I love Artie and leech. Always have and always will. They were kids who had powers but went superheroes. That was awesome.


Freehold DM wrote:

Wasn't a fan of the "these are the REAL X men" vibe the book put forth. Most of the storylines were laughable and let's face it...cyclops and jean and beast and Angel were kinda laughable power scale wise in the face of wolverine, storm, rogue, and havok. And they were jerks to the new mutants, whom I love.

That said, I love Artie and leech. Always have and always will. They were kids who had powers but went superheroes. That was awesome.

Yeah, I can see that... but honestly I like when decisions are fairly organic that way. They may not have liked the New Mutants...but in their eyes, being trained by Magneto they were basically the next generation fo Brotherhood of evil mutants.

I LOVED how Jean came back and instantly spun everyone on their ears. Professor X is in space?? Magneto is running the school?? The X-men are off being renegades and outlaws?!?! What the heck is going on here?? Is ANYONE fighting to protect Xavier's dream?!?

My personal favorite lineup was Giant sized #1-Dark phoenix team... I just think that was perfect all around. Second favorite would be the O5. Third would be 90's 'Blue team'... but honestly there has never been my IDEAL team. There's always someone missing. Outback team is really toward the bottom.

By the time X-factor got going... I really didn't like the current X-men at all. Storm was in Mohawk/powerless phase, Wolverine was becoming the super-overpowered munchkin (He was perfect in the original books... but power bloat had started to get to him...) Colossus was still awesome. Never cared for Rogue, Forge, Longshot, Havok... I just never liked them. Rogue was a bit better in the 90's by the time the cartoon came around..

So yeah... even the 'this is the REAL X-men' concept... I was behind that as well. ;}


I came into the X-men during the outback phase and right away my favorite charcter was Psylock. British Telepath in armor learning how to fight.

and then suddenly she is turned into an asian ninja. It was really annoying, I though she was so much cooler in that purple armor, plus she was British, like my parents.

How many people know Psylock was not originally Asian?


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Greylurker wrote:

I came into the X-men during the outback phase and right away my favorite charcter was Psylock. British Telepath in armor learning how to fight.

and then suddenly she is turned into an asian ninja. It was really annoying, I though she was so much cooler in that purple armor, plus she was British, like my parents.

How many people know Psylock was not originally Asian?

who doesn't?

No really, I like both takes on the character, but it's pretty obvious which one was first.

I will always love the purple armor. But ....ninja. yeah. Sorry. Hormones have won that fight.


phantom1592 wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Wasn't a fan of the "these are the REAL X men" vibe the book put forth. Most of the storylines were laughable and let's face it...cyclops and jean and beast and Angel were kinda laughable power scale wise in the face of wolverine, storm, rogue, and havok. And they were jerks to the new mutants, whom I love.

That said, I love Artie and leech. Always have and always will. They were kids who had powers but went superheroes. That was awesome.

Yeah, I can see that... but honestly I like when decisions are fairly organic that way. They may not have liked the New Mutants...but in their eyes, being trained by Magneto they were basically the next generation fo Brotherhood of evil mutants.

I LOVED how Jean came back and instantly spun everyone on their ears. Professor X is in space?? Magneto is running the school?? The X-men are off being renegades and outlaws?!?! What the heck is going on here?? Is ANYONE fighting to protect Xavier's dream?!?

My personal favorite lineup was Giant sized #1-Dark phoenix team... I just think that was perfect all around. Second favorite would be the O5. Third would be 90's 'Blue team'... but honestly there has never been my IDEAL team. There's always someone missing. Outback team is really toward the bottom.

By the time X-factor got going... I really didn't like the current X-men at all. Storm was in Mohawk/powerless phase, Wolverine was becoming the super-overpowered munchkin (He was perfect in the original books... but power bloat had started to get to him...) Colossus was still awesome. Never cared for Rogue, Forge, Longshot, Havok... I just never liked them. Rogue was a bit better in the 90's by the time the cartoon came around..

So yeah... even the 'this is the REAL X-men' concept... I was behind that as well. ;}

while I understand the issue with wolverine- I truly hate what he has become, truly- I firmly disagree with you elsewhere . Outback team is where it's at.

Dark Archive

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Greylurker wrote:
How many people know Psylock was not originally Asian?

Heck, I'm annoyed by seeing descriptions of her online that refer to her purple hair as part of her mutation (despite there having been flashbacks to when she was younger, and blonde, just like her brother).

I wonder what happened to that 'indestructible' purple armor? I'm sure there are other telepaths (or other mutant ladies without defensive powers) who could use that!

I wanted the entire role of Asian ninja psychic that Betsy was shoehorned into to be the role that Shan/Karma took on while working for her crimelord uncle Nguyen. Her mind control power was occasionally 'balanced' by having it take longer and requiring her full concentration (leaving her vulnerable), so a psychic knife that was the 'focused totality of her psionic powers' and could instead short-circuit someone elses control of their body and mind for a short time, leaving them reeling and helpless, would be a sensible development of her power, combined with the sorts of sneaky ninja-like skills she'd logically develop working for a crimelord.

But no. Betsy got that instead, and Karma got, uh, de-legged, I guess.


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Set wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
How many people know Psylock was not originally Asian?

Heck, I'm annoyed by seeing descriptions of her online that refer to her purple hair as part of her mutation (despite there having been flashbacks to when she was younger, and blonde, just like her brother).

I wonder what happened to that 'indestructible' purple armor? I'm sure there are other telepaths (or other mutant ladies without defensive powers) who could use that!

I wanted the entire role of Asian ninja psychic that Betsy was shoehorned into to be the role that Shan/Karma took on while working for her crimelord uncle Nguyen. Her mind control power was occasionally 'balanced' by having it take longer and requiring her full concentration (leaving her vulnerable), so a psychic knife that was the 'focused totality of her psionic powers' and could instead short-circuit someone elses control of their body and mind for a short time, leaving them reeling and helpless, would be a sensible development of her power, combined with the sorts of sneaky ninja-like skills she'd logically develop working for a crimelord.

But no. Betsy got that instead, and Karma got, uh, de-legged, I guess.

as usual set, damn good stuff.

This would have been awesome.

I'm not sad it didn't come to pass though.

Because puberty.

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